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Thread: Should flags be lowered for Whitney Houston?

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Should flags be lowered for Whitney Houston?

    Seriously???????? How did this even come up as an option? It's a disgrace.

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  2. #2
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    The governor can dip the New Jersey flag if he wants to. I don't think he gets to decide protocol for the US flag, in my opinion.

    Unless there is some fitting precedent here that I haven't thought of, I don't think the governor should be setting it.

    I don't know enough about Houston's public service life nor her relationship to New Jersey to warrant any other opinion.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-16-2012 at 01:44 PM.
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    NO! What the hell is going on? What are we trying to say? Put out a few records and suddenly you are more important that a soldier who dies for his country? They don't lower the flag every time we lose someone overseas. Also, her singing career is enough to cancel out her obvious rampant use of cocaine?

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    Regular Member yz9890's Avatar
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    it's very sad when someone's daughter, mother, sister etc dies prematurely. she was a public figure and so it follows that her life/death be remembered in a more public fashion. but lowering the flag is supposed to be set aside for people who lived an honorable life dedicated to serving the public. in my opinion, Ms Houston does not fit that category and lowering the flag for her diminishes it's meaning for those for whom it was lowered before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yz9890 View Post
    it's very sad when someone's daughter, mother, sister etc dies prematurely. she was a public figure and so it follows that her life/death be remembered in a more public fashion. but lowering the flag is supposed to be set aside for people who lived an honorable life dedicated to serving the public. in my opinion, Ms Houston does not fit that category and lowering the flag for her diminishes it's meaning for those for whom it was lowered before.
    Exactly!

  7. #7
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    In a word: "No".
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    Regular Member ThatOneChick's Avatar
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    Most of the people I've encountered and actually discussed flag code with are surprisingly ignorant to it. In some cases, it can actually be against the law to break flag code. It's a class B misdemeanor to burn the flag in Utah (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_09_060100.htm). What they don't know is that's the proper way to dispose of it. All those poor naughty boy scouts.

    A bit ago, I read a story (I cannot find the link but, to my recollection whatever that's worth, this is what happened) where a fire house had dipped their flag in respect to one of theirs that they had lost. The governor freaked out and told them to raise it full staff since it was against the law.

    Flag code is confusing, especially when you have so many people enforcing rules differently. I remember watching people gasp in horror when people from a foreign country would burn the US flag. How disrespectful, right? I'd chuckle and vocally thank them for disposing of the flag properly. Most people never understood that, nor do they care. Is it patriotic to wear a shirt with a flag on it? Nope, against flag code. Is it enforced? Obviously not. Should it be? That debate's for another time and date.

    As for dipping the flag for Whitney, while it is against flag code and personally, not something I would do, I don't really care. I understand people hold traditions pretty close but, I don't think doing something like this lessens the respect some of us hold for our veterans, active duty, fire fighters, etc etc. I know I still respect our men and women in uniform just as much as I did yesterday and will continue to respect them the same tomorrow regardless of what anyone does to Ol' Glory.
    Last edited by ThatOneChick; 02-16-2012 at 02:18 PM. Reason: Typo. =)
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  9. #9
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowsport20
    They don't lower the flag every time we lose someone overseas.
    And I'd say that our military members deserve the honor more than an entertainer.

    Quote Originally Posted by yz9890
    lowering the flag is supposed to be set aside for people who lived an honorable life dedicated to serving the public.
    That was my impression.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOneChick
    Is it patriotic to wear a shirt with a flag on it? Nope, against flag code.
    Is it enforced? Obviously not.
    Ditto for things like paper plates, napkins, & cups that are so often used at 4th of July parties.
    All against the flag code.

    I don't think doing something like this lessens the respect some of us hold for our veterans, active duty, fire fighters, etc etc. I know I still respect our men and women in uniform just as much as I did yesterday and will continue to respect them the same tomorrow regardless of what anyone does to Ol' Glory.
    I see what you mean.
    Sort of like how whomever you [generic person] choose to date / have sex with / marry has no impact on my relationship. My relationship is still mine & has whatever attributes I choose to believe it has. (Personally, I think the celeb "marriages" that last 3 weeks, & pet "marriages", as well as the high divorce rate, do more to cheapen the institution than do the "nontraditional" unions.)

    Also, the flag is a symbol. Protestors in other countries think that they'll degrade us by degrading our symbol. Magical thinking. Doesn't change reality or how we feel about the US.
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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Wha-wha wha-WHAT!?!?!?!

    Whitney Spears is dead?

    OMG!

    Where's my bong dude? Here's to you Whitney Spears! Hey. Are you gonna do that line?
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 02-16-2012 at 03:35 PM.
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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    They're lowing the bar, might as well lower the flag to match.

    It is an outrage. I think we should lower the flag for people who serve this country (really anyone who serve, not just military, politicians, LEO, etc) before we lower the flag for just anyone.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 02-16-2012 at 03:49 PM.

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    I'll say the same thing I said when Michael Jackson died and people were literally crying in the aisles of the store where I worked.

    I'm not going to get one less Christmas card this year, so wtf do I care?

    I say collective America stops hero-worshipping dumbass celebs and resumes daily life.
    Last edited by PistolPackingMomma; 02-16-2012 at 03:56 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member .40S&W's Avatar
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    Did they lower the flag for Michael Jackson? Not saying they should have, just wondering. He had a way bigger impact on music than Whitney did. Idol worship in this country has truly gone to the dogs. smh
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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    f&%* no.

    I'm cool with a candlelight vigil though.


    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    Whitney who...???????

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    Regular Member Tony4310's Avatar
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    As someone who served, I find this distasteful and disrespecting to public servants that earned the right to have a flag lowered in their memory. She has not earned that honor. So I am giving a big HELL NO!

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    Why would we lower the flag for a drug addict???

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Politicians....we lower flags for politicians....why not Whitney?
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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    A flag at half staff only represents a invisible flag of death. Your family might want to lower a flag out of respect for you or another family member's death. As far as a government entity honoring a citizen like this, it doesn't bother me. I find no disrespect.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatOneChick View Post
    It's a class B misdemeanor to burn the flag in Utah (http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_09_060100.htm)
    Like any unconstitutional law, this one is of no effect. It is a legislative act, but it creates no misdemeanor. (At least in theory.)

    Is it patriotic to wear a shirt with a flag on it? Nope, against flag code. Is it enforced? Obviously not. Should it be? That debate's for another time and date.
    See above.

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    Regular Member ThatOneChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Like any unconstitutional law, this one is of no effect. It is a legislative act, but it creates no misdemeanor. (At least in theory.)

    See above.
    I don't necessarily want to chance "in theory" so I'll leave the flag burning to those criminal boy scouts lol.
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    Once upon a time, I was a flag-salutin', hard-chargin', super-patriotic, strong military-supporting US Marine.

    Then I found out about government lies, and about the history of the government in this country. Coincident with this process was self-education about rights.

    Now, regarding the flag, my sentiments are more in line with George Carlin: "The flag is a symbol. And, I leave symbols to the symbol-minded...I have this little thing I do. Its called thinking." I'm not dismissive of flag-wavers as Carlin might have been, nor of the flag itself. But, I'm a lot less of a flag-waver who gets a lump in his throat or all patriotic at the mention of the flag, or things that it is traditionally used to mis-represent.

    So, with that said, lower the flag to half-staff for Whitney Houston? Why not?

    I'd damn sure rather see it lowered to half staff out of national respect for the tremendous talent and aesthetic contributions of a woman like Houston, than see it half-staffed as sign of national respect for the likes of criminal-in-chief like Nixon, or when they do finally go from natural causes, Carter, Bush (either), Clinton (either), Cheney, etc., etc., etc.

    What can you really say of a nation that would not recognize the tremendous talent of someone like Houston, but would actually tolerate demeaning a national symbol by letting the remaining government criminals lower it out of "respect" for a deceased government criminal?

    So, I vote "go for it." Half-staff the flag for Houston. She had her troubles in life, no doubt there. But, I would sooner honor her for her talent and aesthetic contributions than many of the people for whom the flag is actually lowered. Certainly it would be a step up in status for the poor old flag.


    Full Disclosure: I'm not a Houston fan. I only really liked maybe two or three of her songs. But, that does not mean a huge number of people did not enjoy her amazing talent. Nor, does it mean that I am prohibited from recognizing that she was a rare gem these days--a singer who could actually sing, and sing well.
    Last edited by Citizen; 02-17-2012 at 06:20 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Personal opinion:

    The lowering of the flag to half staff should be reserved for those who have held high office, elevated rank, or performed exceptionally meritorious service of particular note.

    No singer, sports star, race car driver, writer of fiction qualifies on those merits alone.

    I shall always hold our flag in extremely high regard for what I believe it stands for and for what others have done to preserve its dignity. There is only one Old Glory, one Star Spangled Banner. That ymmv does not change that. I still get a lump in my throat and my chest swells at our National Anthem, as well as some other songs i.e. those immortalized by Kate Smith. That is who I am and I make no apology for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Personal opinion:

    The lowering of the flag to half staff should be reserved for those who have held high office, elevated rank, or performed exceptionally meritorious service of particular note.
    These are great ideas. Say, if things really worked that way.

    Unfortunately, too many "in high office" are criminals who trod all over the constitution. Mangling it, refusing to recognize it. Damn, damn, damn too few willing to actually, genuinely, sincerely honor it, or rather its specific limitations on government.

    And, elevated rank can't really apply in a nation where all are equals. I can see lowering the British flag for an earl or duke since they hold a higher rank than a knight or mere commoner, but not here.

    Exceptionally meritorious service. I can go along with this one. As long as it is a genuinely beneficial contribution. But, I think Houston might fit this critierion.
    Last edited by Citizen; 02-17-2012 at 08:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    These are great ideas. Say, if things really worked that way.

    Unfortunately, too many "in high office" are criminals who trod all over the constitution. Mangling it, refusing to recognize it. Damn, damn, damn too few willing to actually, genuinely, sincerely honor it, or rather its specific limitations on government.

    And, elevated rank can't really apply in a nation where all are equals. I can see lowering the British flag for an earl or duke since they hold a higher rank than a knight or mere commoner, but not here.

    Exceptionally meritorious service. I can go along with this one. As long as it is a genuinely beneficial contribution. But, I think Houston might fit this critierion.
    NO !! but if that obama gets realected I will lower my flag and put the "Dont Tread on Me" above it.

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