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Thread: Renewed attempt to destroy military's once-fired brass!

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Angry Renewed attempt to destroy military's once-fired brass!

    Emily Miller, of "Emily Gets Her Gun" fame, has published an article about the not-so-subtle anti-gun budget items from the Obama Administration, including funding for the next chapter of Fast and Furious, destruction of WWII and Korean War Garand M1 rifles, and more junk science on the myths of gun control.

    Perhaps the worst of this is an apparent renewal of a short-lived policy to actually waste government money, by destroying once-fired brass, instead of selling it as surplus to reloaders. I'm sure most of us remember the huge stink that raised a couple years ago... time to start yelling again!

    Someone needs to call Georgia Arms and let them know.

    TFred

    MILLER: Obama’s fast and furious spin
    Sneaky White House budget provisions undermine the Second Amendment


    Mr. Obama’s budget contains other gun-grabbing surprises. The White House is looking to reclaim authority to destroy surplus M1 Garand rifles and M1 Carbines. For 30 years, the Defense Department has been blocked from scrapping these collectible firearms that served our soldiers well in World War II and the Korean War. The administration also wants to melt down the military’s spent brass casings, thwarting gun owners who have been buying and recycling the surplus materials.

    The president’s budget would also restore millions in funding to the National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control so they can pump out junk science studies claiming handguns are a public health hazard.

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Emily Miller gets robbed.

    Emily Miller becomes advocate for the second amendment.

    Way too cool.

    How many more can she get to leave the dark side?
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodbender View Post
    Emily Miller gets robbed.

    Emily Miller becomes advocate for the second amendment.

    Way too cool.

    How many more can she get to leave the dark side?
    Amazing how getting robbed tends to shake one into recognizing reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodbender View Post
    Emily Miller gets robbed.

    Emily Miller becomes advocate for the second amendment.

    Way too cool.

    How many more can she get to leave the dark side?
    OH, that everyone "confused on Constitutional Rights" could learn from the experiences of others and not have to experience it themselves FIRSTHAND!
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Emily's article referenced in the OP does make mention of scraping once fired ammo, but provides no link or further data.

    Me thinks she may have read of the previous failed attempt to do this and threw it into the mix. Not elaborating on this, leaving the impression that something current was in the works, is at best misleading.

    Is there anybody else reporting on this "possibility" presently?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Emily's article referenced in the OP does make mention of scraping once fired ammo, but provides no link or further data.

    Me thinks she may have read of the previous failed attempt to do this and threw it into the mix. Not elaborating on this, leaving the impression that something current was in the works, is at best misleading.

    Is there anybody else reporting on this "possibility" presently?
    Here's another one, but it also links back to Emily. However, I know I read about this in another location last week with quoted evidence from the budget and otherwise to support it, however, I'll be darned if I remember where exactly and my Google-fu is wanting at the moment (and my tablet browser has crashed 3X while I was looking for it so I give up for the moment)
    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...merican-people

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    I saw an article about it on foxnews recently but have been unable to find it since seeing this thread. Basically it was an under-the-radar tactic and was hidden inside of the POTUS' budget that he submitted to Congress recently. Maybe someone else will have better luck finding it as I need to head to bed.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    ...to actually waste government money, by destroying once-fired brass, instead of selling it as surplus to reloaders.

    ...

    The administration also wants to melt down the military’s spent brass casings, thwarting gun owners who have been buying and recycling the surplus materials.
    It may very well thwart civilian re-loaders who've grown used to the free handout, but I hardly see it how it's "wasteful." Copper is the main element in brass alloy, and it's not cheap! The military will not reload their own brass due to "season cracking," so in order to save money, instead of giving it away, they're recycling it, melting it down in order to reuse it.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    It may very well thwart civilian re-loaders who've grown used to the free handout, but I hardly see it how it's "wasteful." Copper is the main element in brass alloy, and it's not cheap! The military will not reload their own brass due to "season cracking," so in order to save money, instead of giving it away, they're recycling it, melting it down in order to reuse it.
    Was not aware that civilian reloaders like Georgia Arms got a free handout. I thought that they paid good cash for the brass. Do you have evidence to the contrary?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    It may very well thwart civilian re-loaders who've grown used to the free handout, but I hardly see it how it's "wasteful." Copper is the main element in brass alloy, and it's not cheap! The military will not reload their own brass due to "season cracking," so in order to save money, instead of giving it away, they're recycling it, melting it down in order to reuse it.
    Given that reloaders buy the brass how is it a "free handout." The next question about all this is how much do they sell the spent brass for and how much do they get out of melting it down compared to selling the brass (the net gain after the cost of melting it down). You sound really bitter at reloaders with these "free handout" and "giving it away" comments.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Been away for a few days, so a few comments.

    I don't recall anything that would indicate Miss Miller "switched sides". My impression from her articles is that it was much more the case of suddenly finding the need to become aware of the issues, and her subsequent discovery that they were not in her favor as a citizen of DC. And this is where the vast majority of Americans are, generally indifferent, until they have a reason not to be.

    As others have commented, I have never seen anything to indicate that the reloaders were able to obtain the once-fired brass at no cost, and it stands to reason (dangerous though that may be) that once-fired casings are worth far more than their raw materials on the salvage market. If there is any evidence to the contrary, we're all eyes.

    I haven't seen any recent updates on this. I suppose it should be possible to find the source in the budget, but that may be a significant task.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Finally found a reference to the budget items in question, in a thread on another forum:

    http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=479432

    See especially post #2.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 02-29-2012 at 03:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    It may very well thwart civilian re-loaders who've grown used to the free handout, but I hardly see it how it's "wasteful." Copper is the main element in brass alloy, and it's not cheap! The military will not reload their own brass due to "season cracking," so in order to save money, instead of giving it away, they're recycling it, melting it down in order to reuse it.
    Except it's not a free handout. When you buy scrap from the military, as spent ammunition is sold, it's on an auction type of arrangement. So, the item will sell for whatever price the market will bear. Sometimes, depending on the item and contract involved, the scapper must perform demilitarization before it leaves the base. That's often the case with 20mm+ ammunition cases, and it's just as well because very few people could use them for the intended purpose.

    In the case of small arms ammunition, the shells are worth more to everyone involved (military, reloaders, and we the people) in their non-destroyed state, and the auction prices reflect this. Brass is worth quite a lot these days, sure enough...but there is value added in fact that the brass is shapped like a cartridge. In other words, 2000lbs of 5.56 cases are worth substantially more on the open market than 2000lb brass ingots of undocumented alloy.

    From another perspective, one might say that requiring destruction is virtually the same as robbing the taxpayers of that difference in value... That aught to make sense even to a bureaucratic beancounter in Washington.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CO-Joe View Post
    From another perspective, one might say that requiring destruction is virtually the same as robbing the taxpayers of that difference in value... That aught to make sense even to a bureaucratic beancounter in Washington.
    In this day of unimaginable debt, this should be the one and only issue that is even considered!

    TFred

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    If this notion of scrapping all the once fired brass is true; the good news is, KOs budget will not see the light of day as it is written. Remember, his administration hasn't passed a budget since he has been in office; they have only passed spending measures.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    If this notion of scrapping all the once fired brass is true; the good news is, KOs budget will not see the light of day as it is written. Remember, his administration hasn't passed a budget since he has been in office; they have only passed spending measures.
    That is the fault of congress, more specifically, the senate, not Obummer's admin.
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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodbender View Post
    That is the fault of congress, more specifically, the senate, not Obummer's admin.
    Beg to differ with you, a little...His administration (and/or party), including the Senate (Dem controlled) hasn't passed a budget. Even when the Dems controlled both houses, they were unable to produce a yearly budget.

    Either way; if the issue of scrapping the brass is in it, which I haven't found (which doesn't mean it aint there), it won't get through.
    Last edited by Redbaron007; 03-16-2012 at 09:37 AM.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Beg to differ with you, a little...His administration (and/or party), including the Senate (Dem controlled) hasn't passed a budget. Even when the Dems controlled both houses, they were unable to produce a yearly budget.

    Either way; if the issue of scrapping the brass is in it, which I haven't found (which doesn't mean it aint there), it won't get through.
    It's in there. See my previous post, #12, for links. It's a stealthy removal of previous provisions to stop the destruction of the brass.

    TFred

  19. #19
    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    It's in there. See my previous post, #12, for links. It's a stealthy removal of previous provisions to stop the destruction of the brass.

    TFred
    Thanks!

    My mistake, when I first linked to it, I saw the NRAILA link, then dismissed it. I scrolled down through the forum and read the rest. gc70 seems to have researched it thoroughly.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Beg to differ with you, a little...His administration (and/or party), including the Senate (Dem controlled) hasn't passed a budget. Even when the Dems controlled both houses, they were unable to produce a yearly budget.

    Either way; if the issue of scrapping the brass is in it, which I haven't found (which doesn't mean it aint there), it won't get through.
    I agree with all of that. This budget will not get through whether it is in there or not. "Prince Harry" has already said they will not pass a budget this year.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodbender View Post
    I agree with all of that. This budget will not get through whether it is in there or not. "Prince Harry" has already said they will not pass a budget this year.
    Both sides are hanging on to the hope that they win more seats in the House and Senate come November.

    Did someone find the exact text relating to the destruction of the brass?
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Sheesh, does this board have some sort of an "invisible font" setting?

    [/INVISIBLE] For the third time now... see the links in my post, message #12! [INVISIBLE]

    TFred

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Sheesh, does this board have some sort of an "invisible font" setting?

    [/INVISIBLE] For the third time now... see the links in my post, message #12! [INVISIBLE]

    TFred
    Well, of course it does! Although, the invisible text was just ignored by me the first time! :-D
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Well, of course it does! Although, the invisible text was just ignored by me the first time! :-D
    Clever!!

    TFred

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