Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Nice!! Know your rights!

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Henderson, Nevada
    Posts
    13

    Nice!! Know your rights!


  2. #2
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    437
    Do you understand the dynamic?

    He rolled up and put it in park and rolled his window down an inch or so
    He deflected the LEOs questions with a question
    He did not reply to the question about having a drink.
    a) it was a leading question with a potential follow up:
    'Sir, if you haven't been having anything tonight do you mind if I ask you to blow into this device'
    If you refuse you can take the ride.
    If you answer anything the stop is now consensual.
    He waited until the right time (a supervisor, since only she can release him)
    The supervisor continually scanned his face for alcohol use, eyes, bloodshot, etc. (being a professional)
    After she couldn't reply in the negative to his final question, "Am I free to go?" he was able to drive off.

    This may not be the outcome of a stop in your state, so do know your laws.

    IMO, this puts anyone at risk for illegal search. As we know people searching have planted evidence (it's possible, though improbable). You do not allow a search for this reason alone. But, who knows you may have a spent casing under the mat due to it being in your cuffs when you left the range.

    Anyway, that's my 'way too deep' analysis, lol.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  3. #3
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    Way to go! The driver stood up for his Fifth Amendment rights and all worked out as it should... except for the fact that he was stopped in the first place.

    Now some might think that this is silly. That if the man had nothing to drink, nothing to hide or worry about, why not just cooperate with the police and everything will come out fine. But where does it stop? Suppose you live in a state that has no protections against being stopped or searched during an emergency or disaster causing heightened statewide alerts? Suppose the police are doing stops to check for weapons and you are carrying some firearms in your car because you live in an area where some people have run amuck? Now YOU are the criminal and YOU are the one in deep do-do. Where does it stop?
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  4. #4
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    IMO, this puts anyone at risk for illegal search. As we know people searching have planted evidence (it's possible, though improbable). You do not allow a search for this reason alone. But, who knows you may have a spent casing under the mat due to it being in your cuffs when you left the range.
    I have spent casings in my floorboard. Is that evidence of a crime?

  5. #5
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    437
    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    I have spent casings in my floorboard. Is that evidence of a crime?
    When was the last time you did a drive-by?
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  6. #6
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Louisa, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,694
    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    When was the last time you did a drive-by?
    I plead the 5th.

  7. #7
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    437
    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    I plead the 5th.
    I that case, you're free to go.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Northern Nevada, ,
    Posts
    721
    The driver is timf343 and you can find him in the Nevada forum here on OCDO.

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Way to go! The driver stood up for his Fifth Amendment rights and all worked out as it should... except for the fact that he was stopped in the first place.

    Now some might think that this is silly. That if the man had nothing to drink, nothing to hide or worry about, why not just cooperate with the police and everything will come out fine. But where does it stop? Suppose you live in a state that has no protections against being stopped or searched during an emergency or disaster causing heightened statewide alerts? Suppose the police are doing stops to check for weapons and you are carrying some firearms in your car because you live in an area where some people have run amuck? Now YOU are the criminal and YOU are the one in deep do-do. Where does it stop?
    +1

    I get a little disturbed by the folks who insist on the "if you don't have anything to hide" argument it is irrelevant and has little to do with our fundamental rights. And to me caving enables the officers behavior and may make it harder for the next guy who stands up against unwarranted intrusion.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1

    I get a little disturbed by the folks who insist on the "if you don't have anything to hide" argument it is irrelevant and has little to do with our fundamental rights. And to me caving enables the officers behavior and may make it harder for the next guy who stands up against unwarranted intrusion.
    I could not agree more with what you said here. I posted this video on a car enthusiast website yesterday morning, where I am a long standing member, under the title "A lesson in how to handle a DUI stop". I prefaced the post with the following text;

    "I'm certain that some of you good folks will disagree with the way this driver handled the situation, but you have to admit that he exercised his Fifth Amendment rights very responsibly. There is a lesson here which can apply to other unwarranted stops.

    Oh, and please folks, keep the ranting and arguing out of this thread I am only posting it as a informational item... that is all."


    You should see some of the comments in the over 125 responses which have come in. The most outlandish one in my opinion included this sentence;

    "F*** your rights if it's for the safety of yourself and others!"

    I have had to bite my tongue to keep from stepping in and voicing my stance on this, but I started things out to see what kind of responses these people had. I have seen things in the past on that site which really surprised me, but this one takes the cake.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    Way to go! The driver stood up for his Fifth Amendment rights and all worked out as it should... except for the fact that he was stopped in the first place.
    I agree.

    Many people argue DUI checkpoints are the reason for the dramatic reduction in alcohol-related vehicular accidents and deaths over the years. I maintain it's largely due to much greater awareness and educational programs, such as those emphasizing the need for a designated driver.

    Regardless, it's a search without a warrant. As such, it violates our Constitution.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    I wonder, sometimes, where the whole 'if you have nothing to hide ...' might take us.

    If you have nothing to hide, just cooperate with Officer Friendly and prove you're not a drunk driver.
    If you have nothing to hide, just prove to Officer Friendly where you were last night, he's just looking for a rapist.
    If you have nothing to hide, just let Officer Friendly inside to search for the armed robber who's hiding somewhere
    If you have nothing to hide, just give Officer Friendly your fingerprints to prove you're not the rapist they're looking for.

    With every instance, the burden of proof comes to lay on the shoulder of the citizen instead of needing to be proven by his accuser. What's worse, they're not even making an accusation before they want you to prove you didn't do something.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •