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Thread: I have AZ CCW need Medical Marijuana card. Will I loose my 2A or CCW if I apply?

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    Regular Member NorthAZGrandma's Avatar
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    I have AZ CCW need Medical Marijuana card. Will I loose my 2A or CCW if I apply?

    I have been battling Cancer, Systemic Lupus, Degenerative spine disease, Rheumatoid Arthritis and Fibromyalgia for 10 years now. I’m at the end of the SLE (Lupus). It has now affected my vital organs to the point I am unable to work anymore.

    I have held a AZ CCW 8 years. The medications I take don’t allow me to drive while on them so when Im on meds I do not drive. I am an executive professional by trade.

    My body is allergic to most pain management medicines like morphine so pain management is VERY difficult. The pain levels I experience in this stage of my illnesses is to the point that I can no longer take enough prescriptions pain meds to ease my pain and I suffer terribly. I have tried every holistic approach possible (hypnotherapy, vitamins/supplements, etc).

    Because I have tried everything I can the last 10 years, my Dr. approached me with trying medical marijuana. I can not smoke anything due to lung degeneration but there are alternatives to smoking the MJ.

    My question is……. Can they revoke my Arizona CCW if I am prescribed by a licensed AZ Dr?

    Also with the HIPPA act, would the investigation be illegal if they did revoke my CCW because I and a "medcial patient"?

    Last, on the CCW permit it asked if I am mentally ill. Because I have depression occasionally due my health problems and take medicine to control it, did I violate the question because mental illness includes depression? (if this is the case, every police office and veteran who has PTSD would also violate this law wouldnt they - rhetorical state ment here/just venting)

    I understand these are legal matters, but I cannot find anything on my situation and need help. I agree that anyone on any medications need to be responsible while taking them. I also agree the I have my 2nd amendment rights but can they take them away?

    Mahalo (thank you) and Aloha from AZ!!

  2. #2
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am not from Arizona but this May be a question to pose to your local Sheriff, hopefully you don't live in city limits.
    I do know gun owners who suffer medical conditions that have "green cards". They keep it very close on who is allowed to know.

    If he don't prosecute medicinal than your only worry is the feds.

    I find it a shame the government is involved in these personal issues.

    You may just have to do a personal risk analysis and make some tough decisions.

    Keep your chin up and keep fighting!
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Good Reason to support Ron Paul. If feel for you. My wife also is alergic to most regular medications, I know what you are talking about.

    Suggestion. There used to be a Federal program, (FDA run I think) the feds actually supplied to drawer "experimental medication" (MJ) to study it's use in pain relief. (for free as in any experimental medication study) This program was "closed" to new applicants back a few years ago, but there are still some people in it. May I suggest you see if you can get it opened again...you are the type of candidate they were approving before the registry was "closed". Sorry I don't have the links, you can find them. This all came because of a law suit back in the 70's.

    Look on the internet for reference to the program, see if you can talk to some of the few participants (I think there are 4 left) and try work that angle. As an FDA experimental drug, it is considered as just another prescription medicine and would cause you no problems with the 2A and the ATF.
    Last edited by hermannr; 02-18-2012 at 01:12 PM.

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    I can't offer much of an opinion but wish you the best with your medical conditions and your situation. If I were you I would talk to a lawyer to find answers to your questions. I would wonder if you get a med mj license does the state get your name on a list that they can cross reference it against pistol permit holders. I hope it works out for you... the stigma behind pot needs to get put in the past in this country

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    Here it is - SOURCE DOCUMENT. in brief, the feds say yes- if you get the card, screwn

    Quote Originally Posted by hobie16 View Post
    I can't offer much of an opinion but wish you the best with your medical conditions and your situation. If I were you I would talk to a lawyer to find answers to your questions. I would wonder if you get a med mj license does the state get your name on a list that they can cross reference it against pistol permit holders. I hope it works out for you... the stigma behind pot needs to get put in the past in this country
    profoundly stupid federal policy, but there it is.!!!!!!



    According to ATF Open Letter to all Federal Firearms License holders (gun dealers), 26 Sep 2011:

    “During a firearms transaction, a potential transferee may advise you that he or she is a user of medical marijuana, or present a medical marijuana card as identification or proof of residency. As you know, Federal Law, 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(3), prohibits any person who is an “unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802))” from shipping, transporting, receiving or possessing firearms or ammunition. Marijuana is listed in the Controlled Substances Act as a Schedule I controlled substance, and there are no exceptions in Federal law for marijuana purportedly used for medicinal purposes, even if such use is sanctioned by State law. ….any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legislation authorizing marijuana for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms or ammunition. … Further, if you are aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession and use of marijuana under State law, then you have “reasonable cause to believe” that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. ….”

    Signed by Arthur Herbert, Assitant Director, Enforcement Programs and Services.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    If Palo is correct, and I have no reason to doubt that he is, what that letter says is that if you get your AZMJ card, a FFL dealer cannot legally sell you any more firearms. If you have all the guns you think you'll need, then the federal law is moot. That leaves only AZ Firearm CCW Statutes to deal with, and, unless they have changed the law again, you haven't needed a permit to carry concealed in AZ since July 2010. However, as best I can determine the AZ DPS doesn't say that on their website, because.........(wait for it)............... they can't make any money for the CWP if if they tell you that! You should check out A.R.S. 13-3112 (make certain it is the 2010 version) for details. Pax...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    If Palo is correct, and I have no reason to doubt that he is, what that letter says is that if you get your AZMJ card, a FFL dealer cannot legally sell you any more firearms. If you have all the guns you think you'll need, then the federal law is moot. That leaves only AZ Firearm CCW Statutes to deal with, and, unless they have changed the law again, you haven't needed a permit to carry concealed in AZ since July 2010. However, as best I can determine the AZ DPS doesn't say that on their website, because.........(wait for it)............... they can't make any money for the CWP if if they tell you that! You should check out A.R.S. 13-3112 (make certain it is the 2010 version) for details. Pax...
    to be precise, it says: "Further, if you are aware that the potential transferee is in possession of a card authorizing the possession and use of marijuana under State law, then you have “reasonable cause to believe” that the person is an unlawful user of a controlled substance. ….”

    and if the dealer has reasonable cause to believe person X is an unlawful user based on that card, then SO DOES THE FEDERAL GOVT.

    iow, it establishes a prima facie case *IF* they *WANT* to go after you

    the feds have been uneven in going after medical MJ (mostly they go after clinics, and obama lied and said he wouldn't and then ramped upworse than bush), and they mostly leave USERS alone.

    however, given the right case, i have ZERO doubt they would use this law to pile on charges

    imagine you were involved in an unpopular shooting (with the feds) and they wanted to hammer you, but there was either no federal nexus for the shooting itself OR there wasn't enough evidence to convict you of committing a CRIME in regards ot the shooting, they could always fall back on THIS statute and it's pretty much - you are screwn. federal law is ridiculously draconian and this is a perfect example

    remember what they tried to do to that border patrol officer involved in the shooting (using that firearm law in commission of a crime law against him), or even tommy chong
    Last edited by PALO; 02-19-2012 at 05:33 PM.

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    imagine you were involved in an unpopular shooting (with the feds) and they wanted to hammer you, but there was either no federal nexus for the shooting itself OR there wasn't enough evidence to convict you of committing a CRIME in regards ot the shooting, they could always fall back on THIS statute and it's pretty much - you are screwn.
    My imagination isn't that good. First, I don't DO crimes, period. Second, IF I were to engage in criminal activity, it would have nothing to do with a controlled substance, or weapons of any kind. I am not a Border Patrol Agent (Campeon or Ramos - take your choice) who shot a fleeing drug mule in the ass, nor am I a celebrity like Tommy Chong. Tommy's big mistake was being unfamiliar with state laws, and who better to make an example of than an internationally known person, who portrays himself on-screen as a happy-go-lucky substance abuser.

    The Feds don't issue the AZ CWP. I see nothing in the AZ statute prohibiting the OP from getting another permit, even though she doesn't need one anymore. Thankfully, IANAL, and must rely on common sense interpretations. Pax...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    My imagination isn't that good. First, I don't DO crimes, period. Second, IF I were to engage in criminal activity, it would have nothing to do with a controlled substance, or weapons of any kind. I am not a Border Patrol Agent (Campeon or Ramos - take your choice) who shot a fleeing drug mule in the ass, nor am I a celebrity like Tommy Chong. Tommy's big mistake was being unfamiliar with state laws, and who better to make an example of than an internationally known person, who portrays himself on-screen as a happy-go-lucky substance abuser.

    The Feds don't issue the AZ CWP. I see nothing in the AZ statute prohibiting the OP from getting another permit, even though she doesn't need one anymore. Thankfully, IANAL, and must rely on common sense interpretations. Pax...
    the feds have stated outright that having a medical MJ card is reasonable cause to conclude a person is an "unlawful user of drugs" based on their moronic scheduling of MJ

    i look at that fact, then i look at the feds EXTENSIVE history in applying such decisions and laws arbitrarily, and in a draconian manner

    iow, you roll the dice. MOST likely. it won't become an issue. given some unlucky circ's. even if you do nothing wrong, the feds have carte blanche pursuant to this , to go after you and make your life miserable.

    considering the feds have recently raided amish raw milk farmers with SWAT teams, i am not relying on the reasonableness of the DOJ when making decisions

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    the feds have stated outright that having a medical MJ card is reasonable cause to conclude a person is an "unlawful user of drugs" based on their moronic scheduling of MJ
    Once again, the Feds don't issue the AZ CWP. The question was not "How will the Feds act", it was "I have AZ CCW need Medical Marijuana card. Will I loose my 2A or CCW if I apply?" and my answer is - probably not! The 2A IS what it is, and the Feds can't change it...yet. And the CCW is a non-issue since 2010, when it became no longer required for CC in AZ. Besides, this is an OC forum, I just tried to help the lady out. I'm done with this discussion, Palo. Pax...
    Last edited by Gil223; 02-19-2012 at 07:32 PM.
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    Ccw license

    I live in Nevada and my brother who is in the military would like for me to get my cow after what has been happening around the u.s. only problem is I had received a minor misdemeanor for marijuana possession. I wasnt arrested i didnt not get a DUI, just possesion of marijuana and possesion of paraphanielia I have tried looking into what unlawful use of drugs means to the law but they don't seem to get into much detail. It happened over 3 years ago. Any information would be grateful. Thanks.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtimes87 View Post
    I live in Nevada and my brother who is in the military would like for me to get my cow after what has been happening around the u.s. only problem is I had received a minor misdemeanor for marijuana possession. I wasnt arrested i didnt not get a DUI, just possesion of marijuana and possesion of paraphanielia I have tried looking into what unlawful use of drugs means to the law but they don't seem to get into much detail. It happened over 3 years ago. Any information would be grateful. Thanks.
    Presume you went to court and either were convicted or not.
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