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Thread: Likelihood of open carry becoming legal in florida? and when?

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    Likelihood of open carry becoming legal in florida? and when?

    Can any of you speculate on this. Thanks.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegas shooter View Post
    Can any of you speculate on this. Thanks.
    The word "briefly" in 790.053 is the only thing that needs to be blotted out. This could be done by amendment to any bill affecting 790. Last I heard there was going to be a definite attempt in 2013. NRA needs to do this while Scott is still governor, since he is on board with it. A few rinos in the Fl senate who "like to hunt" and "grew up shooting" killed OC last time. Unless things improve, and I do not believe they will ( the electorate lack the capacity to learn), it will be hard.

    One thing that is happening next year is that the Speaker of the House is supposedly a big OC supporter. OC passed through the House like manure through a cow last year, but the Speaker didn't want to embarrass a few rinos and refused to send the original OC bill back to the senate where the rinos there may have been forced to vote yes to keep their pro-gun cred since the senate Speaker was a strong OC supporter who would have made it come up for a vote.

    In 2013, we lose that senate speaker. The new one voted for it in committee in 2011 and his son was a co-sponsor in the House.

    So it could go either way. Fl Carry now has a test case that they can point to, proving the new language is impotent at protecting CCers. If OK or SC or some other red state legalizes this year (OK looks promising), I think licensed OC has a decent shot of passing in spring of 2013.

    One thing that could really upset things is if the NRA insists on going for campus carry at the same time. Nation wide campus carry outside the usual states ( NY, NJ etc) is an eventual certainty. OC is a touchier subject. I think OC should be the priority here. If the constitutional carry trend continues and FL gets licensed OC, I'd say Fl will eventually be a permitless state one day too.
    Last edited by 77zach; 02-17-2012 at 10:11 PM.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member Ironside's Avatar
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    There is nothing on the radar this year. All plans for OC were deferred to next year.

    You should have seen this forum last year. It was hot and heavy with folks preordering Rentention 2 holsters for the celebration in April.

    Then we got hosed in the Senate ...

    Makes one sick in remembering that fiasco.
    When those in Government fail to see the danger in too much Government, they become the danger.
    (Original quote by me)

    If we lose the Second Amendment it is only a matter of time before we lose the First Amendment, then the Fourth Amendment and then it is all downhill from there ...

    I've OCed and didn't scare the horses or stampede the women!

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    There is nothing on the radar this year. All plans for OC were deferred to next year.

    You should have seen this forum last year. It was hot and heavy with folks preordering Rentention 2 holsters for the celebration in April.

    Then we got hosed in the Senate ...

    Makes one sick in remembering that fiasco.
    I bought an OWB retention holster
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I bought an OWB retention holster
    me too frick
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    doubt is a distraction from reality. fear is acknowledging doubt as reality.

    it's time to tap in to a higher reality; the one you were made for.

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    I dont see it happening anytime soon- at least as long as we continue to allow the same crooks in our legislature to retain their positions after shafting us last time-around. A clear message should be/should have been sent- to the entire lot in Tally, that they screwed the pooch when they screwed the people.
    But, frankly, I dont see any potential candidates lined up who have any more nads than this last batch of candy-assess had, soo...back to square one.

    We need representatives willing to stand up and tell the opposition, and especially the lobbyists opposing us, to ****, or at least call them out on their incredibly lame reasons stated for opposing this.We have no such representatives, at the moment.
    To watch this lot debate this, and other issues, during that session was a horror-story in itself. Most seemed to lack the I.Q.'s of a gnat, much less possess even basic oration skills to make a good case (on both sides.) To see the reps (who at least gave some appearance of being) on our side of the issue stand up there and go "umm... err.. uhhh, errrr" in the face of clearly-spoken, if entirely delusional, opposing points was enough to make one want to vomit into their coffee.

    When spending 6+ hours debating the definition of a "sink hole", or 8+ hrs on the floor, debating a bill about the use of recycled materials by bedding manufacturers (not that we have any here, to begin with) is considered far more important than actual "rights" of the citizens, we are in deep deep doo-doo.

    As far as hoping for help from, or relying on, the NRA- those folks had almost as much a hand in shafting us on this matter, as did the legislature. May as well write to Santa, for all the good the NRA is likely to do for us.

    In the meantime, I've already had phone calls, in recent months, from both the DNC and the GOP in Florida, as well as the Sherrif's Association, and the F.O.P.- all seeking donations or contributions of one sort or other for their organizations. I not only declined, but explained-at length- that they will recieve not a single dime of mine, unless/until, I see a clear, decisive, and public reversal of their opposition to the passage of full Open Carry in this State.
    Last edited by j4l; 02-18-2012 at 04:53 PM.

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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    In the meantime, I've already had phone calls, in recent months, from both the DNC and the GOP in Florida, as well as the Sherrif's Association, and the F.O.P.- all seeking donations or contributions of one sort or other for their organizations. I not only declined, but explained-at length- that they will recieve not a single dime of mine, unless/until, I see a clear, decisive, and public reversal of their opposition to the passage of full Open Carry in this State.
    Hmm, good idea. I get those calls all the time and now I've got something to talk about with them!!

    Also, open carry would be a really good deal for somebody like me as most everybody I know is getting tired of seeing me in the same four cover garments (two are the same) all the time.

    They must think those are the only four things I own!!

    AD
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Hmm, good idea. I get those calls all the time and now I've got something to talk about with them!!

    Also, open carry would be a really good deal for somebody like me as most everybody I know is getting tired of seeing me in the same four cover garments (two are the same) all the time.

    They must think those are the only four things I own!!

    AD
    Lol, know what you mean- I recently expanded my over-shirt line-up, myself, for those rare occasions in which I even bother to go to the trouble of concealing...

    But, yes, It does indeed give something to talk about, and it's at least one way to be sure they get to hear an actual reason WHY they are'nt raising funds.
    If enough of us make a point to do so, when we get these calls- and you will get these calls-it
    's that season for them now, then they will eventually have to tell someone up the chain that "we are'nt raising as many bucks, because a a lot of folks are pissed about our stance on OC"

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    There is nothing on the radar this year. All plans for OC were deferred to next year.

    You should have seen this forum last year. It was hot and heavy with folks preordering Rentention 2 holsters for the celebration in April.

    Then we got hosed in the Senate ...

    Makes one sick in remembering that fiasco.
    The NRA and Hammer dropped the ball and sold us all out on SB234 for a useless check mark in the win column. Don't forget that. I don't see OC getting into another bill with such promise as SB234 had last year. Not for a long time. It took 12 years to get it even considered in 2011..
    Last edited by firedog; 02-23-2012 at 01:32 PM.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Lol, know what you mean- I recently expanded my over-shirt line-up, myself, for those rare occasions in which I even bother to go to the trouble of concealing...

    But, yes, It does indeed give something to talk about, and it's at least one way to be sure they get to hear an actual reason WHY they are'nt raising funds.
    If enough of us make a point to do so, when we get these calls- and you will get these calls-it
    's that season for them now, then they will eventually have to tell someone up the chain that "we are'nt raising as many bucks, because a a lot of folks are pissed about our stance on OC"
    I got a letter the other day from the FSA soliciting donations also. I simply wrote SB234 on it in big sharpie and mailed it back.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    I got a letter the other day from the FSA soliciting donations also. I simply wrote SB234 on it in big sharpie and mailed it back.
    Is this awesome? Y/N



    I knew a wise man who once received a traffic ticket for speeding. He wiped the biggest booger on it, folded it (double wammy), placed it in the envelope with a check and mailed it off. trolling IRL.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    Is this awesome? Y/N



    I knew a wise man who once received a traffic ticket for speeding. He wiped the biggest booger on it, folded it (double wammy), placed it in the envelope with a check and mailed it off. trolling IRL.
    I love it! My whole problem with them is that they made it sound like a win when it was a huge loss. As I said last year, if it had been couched in terms of natural rights in the Senate as in the House, I'd think we'd have licensed OC right now. What was there to lose? They could have still talked about CCer protection. OC will pass in OK and they're talking about rights over there. Is it that much more pro gun than FL? The laws are actually more strict in OK! For example, there is no unlicensed car carriage there.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    I got a letter the other day from the FSA soliciting donations also. I simply wrote SB234 on it in big sharpie and mailed it back.
    I like that idea, I will do the same!

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    Open carry!

    We need a list of the Rhinos that sabotaged the last attempt to get open carry passed. We should mount a campaign to vote out any of them coming up for re-election.

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10x View Post
    I like that idea, I will do the same!
    This is not the one I sent but this is showing up on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/groups/FLopencarry/. Maybe they will get the message. If you ever get a chance to talk to an LEO running for Sheriff always make sure you mention SB234 and your disappointment. Not all LEO's supported the FSA in their efforts that year and before I support any of them running for election I ask where they stood.

    -
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    This is not the one I sent but this is showing up on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/groups/FLopencarry/. Maybe they will get the message. If you ever get a chance to talk to an LEO running for Sheriff always make sure you mention SB234 and your disappointment. Not all LEO's supported the FSA in their efforts that year and before I support any of them running for election I ask where they stood.

    -
    Mea culpa firedog! I stole your idea. It was too good to ignore. I hope you'll forgive me!
    Rich
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    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    The NRA and Hammer dropped the ball and sold us all out on SB234 for a useless check mark in the win column. Don't forget that. I don't see OC getting into another bill with such promise as SB234 had last year. Not for a long time. It took 12 years to get it even considered in 2011..
    Just curious where the "12 years to get it even considered in 2011" comes from. To my knowledge, SB234 was the first time it's been tried since OC was banned in 1987.
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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    Just curious where the "12 years to get it even considered in 2011" comes from. To my knowledge, SB234 was the first time it's been tried since OC was banned in 1987.
    You are correct, I did my math wrong. It was in the 80's when OC was banned. So it's been over 20 years to get it back in the legislature. SB234 was the closest it ever came to repealing the ban. If I remember correct, SB234 had a number of issues that the state was forced to address after changes in federal law (long gun, state lines). I remember watching the senate floor when they changed it from an open carry bill to the useless bill that was passed. A lot of us encouraged them to kill the bill when the sponsor stood on the floor and said "this is no longer an open carry bill" yet it was titled "the open carry bill". Had they killed the bill in it's entirety I believe they would have been forced to reintroduce another bill to deal with the other issues and open carry could have been readdressed in the next session with a supportive governor. It was said at the time (2011) that if open carry was removed from the language we would not see another sponsored bill to include open carry for another 20 years. I think that is going to be the case. If I'm wrong and Florida Carry can get a new bill introduced than great. Hammer should have used her influence to have the bill killed as soon as they changed the language in the final hour. She did not solely for a useless victory for the NRA. I will never forget that or let that go unsaid. IMHO!
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Regular Member firedog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Mea culpa firedog! I stole your idea. It was too good to ignore. I hope you'll forgive me!
    That's cool with me. The more the merrier. Let'em know and hear from as many of us as we can.
    2A - "Shall not be infringed". Our fathers said so!
    All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

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    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    You are correct, I did my math wrong. It was in the 80's when OC was banned. So it's been over 20 years to get it back in the legislature. SB234 was the closest it ever came to repealing the ban. If I remember correct, SB234 had a number of issues that the state was forced to address after changes in federal law (long gun, state lines). I remember watching the senate floor when they changed it from an open carry bill to the useless bill that was passed. A lot of us encouraged them to kill the bill when the sponsor stood on the floor and said "this is no longer an open carry bill" yet it was titled "the open carry bill". Had they killed the bill in it's entirety I believe they would have been forced to reintroduce another bill to deal with the other issues and open carry could have been readdressed in the next session with a supportive governor. It was said at the time (2011) that if open carry was removed from the language we would not see another sponsored bill to include open carry for another 20 years. I think that is going to be the case. If I'm wrong and Florida Carry can get a new bill introduced than great. Hammer should have used her influence to have the bill killed as soon as they changed the language in the final hour. She did not solely for a useless victory for the NRA. I will never forget that or let that go unsaid. IMHO!
    Understand, firedog, and I don't disagree with you. There was even a last moment attempt in the House (by a Democrat, no less) to resurrect the original bill, pass it (which it would have) and send it back to the Senate. The Speaker would not allow it to come up for a vote so the RINOs didn't have to go on record as voting against it, and they didn't want to vote for it.

    It will not be 20 years before you see another bill of that nature. Gathering evidence all the time that the 'briefly' crap isn't working...and there are other avenues to pursue, as well.
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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rvrctyrngr View Post
    Gathering evidence all the time that the 'briefly' crap isn't working...
    Has anyone had any problems with the "briefly" article so far?

    It hasn't been a problem with me and I'm "briefly" exposed several times a day in pretty much every public spot that's out there during my day to day travels.

    Yes, it would be nice to have a firm definition of "briefly" but for now, I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with it.

    AD (coming up on one full year of daily open carry!)
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    Regular Member Sig229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedog View Post
    This is not the one I sent but this is showing up on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/groups/FLopencarry/. Maybe they will get the message. If you ever get a chance to talk to an LEO running for Sheriff always make sure you mention SB234 and your disappointment. Not all LEO's supported the FSA in their efforts that year and before I support any of them running for election I ask where they stood.

    -
    Now that is an awesome pic!

    I hope you guys get OC soon.
    Thats about all I do up here and find it much more comfortable.

    I think you folks are on the right track though. Keep pressure on your elected officials and local PD's and dont stop until you get what you deserve.
    "Let your gun be your constant companion during your walks" ~Thomas Jefferson

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    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Has anyone had any problems with the "briefly" article so far?

    It hasn't been a problem with me and I'm "briefly" exposed several times a day in pretty much every public spot that's out there during my day to day travels.

    Yes, it would be nice to have a firm definition of "briefly" but for now, I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with it.

    AD (coming up on one full year of daily open carry!)
    http://www.floridacarry.org/index.ph...news&Itemid=14

    "Briefly" didn't work for him.
    Rich
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    www.floridacarry.org
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  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    After SB234 I am doubtful that we will ever see open carry in Florida. Too many corrupt politicians and uneducated voters who don't care.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  25. #25
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    Yes, I remember following that case when it came up. Nice job by you guys for sure.

    The initial circumstances of that one were kind of wierd, but I do get the point that is being made here.

    A complete and "correct" definition of BRIEFLY would be a nice update to the law for sure.

    Here's hoping I don't run into a bad situation where my idea of "briefly" doesn't jive with the officer's definition of "briefly".

    Only time will tell for now.

    And I agree with everyone else here. Open Carry would solve a whole lot of the problems for sure.

    AD
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