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Thread: Terry Stop

  1. #1
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Terry Stop

    I'm pretty sure I handled this wrong, actually I know I did, however there was no arrest and they never got their hands on my firearm(s). I would appreciate everyones input so I can better handle a situation like this if it were to arise again, although I hope it never does.

    Background: my driveway is a 1mile long sloppy muddy mess, the first 1/2 is on my neighbors private property and the last 1/2 is on our private property even though it has a street name and sign. And it was 11pm.

    So my wife had an out of state friend visiting and said friend had a couple drinks, became very upset, and wanted a ride to the airport which is roughly 20-25miles away. Being that it was a Friday night, my wife had gone to bed and a couple of friends and myself had just had a drink or 2, not intoxicated but did not want to make that trip, we told her she just needs to relax and we can solve things in the morning. She then went to the front porch to have a smoke. Roughly 45mins-1hr later we realized she had left, on foot. Keep in mind the nearest convenience is 9mi. away. I decided I ,still not intoxicated, better go find her. 3/4 the way down my driveway I came upon 2 vehicles @ around 100yds away, side by side with headlights shining at me. Then came the light show as they pulled up to me. Realizing what was about to happen, I unholstered my 1911 and set it on my passenger seat and left my .22 revolver on the center floor board where it always sits. Because I can't roll down my window, due to stripping gears and it being covered in mud, I opened my door and to my surprise there was an officer about 30-45ft. away, whom I did not see before I opened my door. Officer1: "Shut the door."
    Me: "No, this is my driveway, what's going on? " (probably not the best response)
    Officer1: "Get out of the vehicle!" Me: "Yes sir." (I got out and shut the door behind me)
    Officer1: "Turn around, face the truck and put your hands on your head!"
    Me: (I complied)
    Officer1: "I'm putting you in handcuffs but you are not under arrest."
    Officer2: (has tazer drawn on me)
    Officer1: (frisks me) "Where's the pistol that goes in this holster?"
    Me: "In my truck."
    Officer2: "Can I search your truck?"
    Me: "No you can not."
    Officer2: "ok."
    Officer1: "So what's going on?"
    Me: "I don't know, What is going on?"
    Officer1: "How much have you had to drink tonight?"
    Me: "very little."
    Officer2: "Should we breathalyze him?"
    Officer1: "Ya."
    Me: "I'm on private property."
    Officer2: "Blow in this or we'll take you in on DUI right now."
    Me: (I complied) "Do I get to know what I blew?"
    Officer2: "No."
    Officer1 then explains my wife's friend had called because she was lost, didn't know what to do, and people were "trying to beat her up". He then asked for my side and I told him she was drinking, became upset, and set off on foot. That we were worried about her so I went to find her.
    Officer2: "the way you were acting, had you been reaching around we would of had the right to shoot you!"
    Me: "Can I speak with her?"
    Officer2: "No!"
    Me: "Can you relay her a message for me?"
    Officer1: "yes."
    Me: "She's safe and welcome to come back to the house and we can figure everything out in the morning."
    Officer2: "She's not going back to the house."
    Me: "Shes been drinking and she's not thinking straight."
    Officer2: "She's had a lot less to drink than you, she's all 0s and your a 0.028."
    Me: "So your gona take her to the airport then?"
    Officer2: "Yes, most likely." (He returned to his vehicle)
    Officer1: "I'm going to remove your hand cuffs and you need to stay right here (25ft from my truck) untill we drive over that little hill (about 100yds away), if you go back to your truck before we get that far I will come out with my gun drawn." (Removes my cuffs and leaves).
    Me: "Yes sir."

    I then proceeded home and no longer maintained that 0.028BAC.

    Like I said I know I handled the situation very poorly, and I don't ever want to perform this baddly ever again, so please chime in. What did I do right, what did I do wrong, and how can I better handle a situation like this if it were to arise again?

  2. #2
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    I don't know that you did anything wrong, but you're not telling the whole story. Glad you didn't get arrested.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  3. #3
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    The only thing I left out was her n my wife had an argument ...about what I don't know, there was never a fight or threats, they were best friends .... but as far as my interaction with the LEOs, it's all there. O, except they asked for my ID after I was cuffed.

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    I'm curious what the next step would have been, for the police officers, if you hadn't come down the driveway. Perhaps they would have come to your house and made the same contact, possibly without the handcuffing. By getting out of the vehicle, after the officer told you to shut the door, you put them on the defensive. That situation could have gone badly.

    I am glad it turned out ok. You must have really pissed off your "friend" for her to want to go to the airport @ 11PM and accuse people of trying to beat her up.
    Last edited by FallonJeeper; 02-20-2012 at 04:01 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    She's always been a little crazy and American Indian, so she doesn't handle liquor very well... I didn't just get out they told me to. But I probably shouldn't have opened the door. I honestly think the officers made up the "trying to beat her up" stuff because of how the domestic violence laws work here in Nevada, and they didn't push it at all.
    I honestly don't think they could of made it up to my house with street tires, lol.
    Last edited by yotetrapper; 02-20-2012 at 04:35 PM.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Without RAS I don't think the police can be on or come onto private property and cuff you. So, if you're sure that 'street' is on your land you could file a complaint.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  7. #7
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    Technically I was on my neighbors property... would a complaint still applicable?
    Last edited by yotetrapper; 02-20-2012 at 04:33 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yotetrapper View Post
    Technically I was on my neighbors property... would a complaint still applicable?
    I am not a lawyer (IANAL), but I would say no, a complaint would have no bearing or no effect. No rights were violated, though the cops may have lied to you, regarding the 'beating up' part, which they are permitted to do, but they didn't act on it.

    In fact, though it's somewhat interesting, I'm really not sure why you posted this, or what you're trying to accomplish.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    I am not a lawyer (IANAL), but I would say no, a complaint would have no bearing or no effect. No rights were violated, though the cops may have lied to you, regarding the 'beating up' part, which they are permitted to do, but they didn't act on it.

    In fact, though it's somewhat interesting, I'm really not sure why you posted this, or what you're trying to accomplish.
    He clearly stated his reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by yotetrapper View Post
    I'm pretty sure I handled this wrong, actually I know I did, however there was no arrest and they never got their hands on my firearm(s). I would appreciate everyones input so I can better handle a situation like this if it were to arise again, although I hope it never does.

    Like I said I know I handled the situation very poorly, and I don't ever want to perform this baddly ever again, so please chime in. What did I do right, what did I do wrong, and how can I better handle a situation like this if it were to arise again?
    Last edited by wrightme; 02-20-2012 at 04:51 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  10. #10
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    I posted this because of the LEO interaction, I've never been placed in cuffs before and I was wondering if I had done something wrong, if the officers had done something wrong or if its just how things work. And it's a "Story From My State"

  11. #11
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yotetrapper View Post
    I posted this because of the LEO interaction, I've never been placed in cuffs before and I was wondering if I had done something wrong, if the officers had done something wrong or if its just how things work. And it's a "Story From My State"
    Going by what I've seen and read, I do not think you have any cause for a complaint. You were placed in cuffs for your safety and the officer's safety, especially since they didn't really know what was going on. You were informed you were not under arrest and released when it was sorted out, going by your story. You were not on your own property, so there's no cause to complain they trespassed.

    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme
    He clearly stated his reasons.
    I read that. I was supposing there was more to it, since the story by itself isn't that alarming. Everyone went home afterwards.
    Last edited by sawah; 02-20-2012 at 04:57 PM.
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    Going by what I've seen and read, I do not think you have any cause for a complaint. You were placed in cuffs for your safety and the officer's safety, especially since they didn't really know what was going on. You were informed you were not under arrest and released when it was sorted out, going by your story. You were not on your own property, so there's no cause to complain they trespassed.
    Yes, there is possible reason to complain. Given that the driveway is 1/2 his, and 1/2 belongs to his neighbor, it is ALL on private property. If his neighbor did not give the LE access, then they WERE very likely trespassing on private property, but that may hinge upon any existing mutual use agreements between the two property owners.
    Quote Originally Posted by sawah
    I read that. I was supposing there was more to it, since the story by itself isn't that alarming. Everyone went home afterwards.
    So, you read his reasons, and just didn't believe him?
    Last edited by wrightme; 02-20-2012 at 05:01 PM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  13. #13
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    Nope, nothing more to it, just a long story with a simple question.
    Also, was that technicaly a "Terry Stop", or did I use the wrong title?

  14. #14
    28kfps
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    Thanks for sharing the story. I am not up on law detail that might apply. I would say you went home with all your stuff and no fines sounds like you did well. Officer2 saying, “The way you were acting, had you been reaching around we would have had the right to shoot you!” is very concerning to me. I am wondering what actions he was talking about. Based on your account the only time you did not follow what they said was when they ask you to shut the door and you said no. Sounds like they handled the no consent to a vehicle search well. After asking they knew you had a firearm in the truck I am surprised they did not use that fact somehow as an legal excuse to search.

    Just a great big guess on my part and opinion it would appear the messed up window was not a friend in this one. Had you been able to roll down the window without opening the door it might have helped allowing you to answer their questions keeping your hands on the wheel. This is one of those issues trying to decide what after the fact actions would have been better would be hard to pin down. If you had the option of rolling the window down instead of the opening, the door there is no telling how the LEO would have reacted to that.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 02-21-2012 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Because I hate auto suggest spell check.

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    Here's the probable cause for the cops to come to your place: "Officer1 then explains my wife's friend had called because she was lost, didn't know what to do, and people were "trying to beat her up".

    They've got a report of an assault and/or battery. They have reasonable cause to investigate. As far as ID'ing you, this may go to Hiibel. The police have a report of a crime. They are investigating. You have come from the property where the alleged crime has taken place. They have the authority to ID you. You are driving a motor vehicle. They can demand your license. You admitted to having alcohol to drink. This gives them probable cause to give you a FST. You should not have admitted to drinking any alcohol when questioned.

    How could you have avoided this? Realizing that you have had alcohol to drink, you could have just stayed home and not driven at all. Your friend called the police; obviously, you were not a resource she needed to get to where she wanted to be. She used the cops for that.

    The cops would have come to your home to investigate your friend's claim. When they arrived and knocked on your door you simply could have remained silent and not answered the door. There were no exigent circumstances giving them the authority to force entry without a warrant. Obviously, your drunk friend was in no physical danger from you or your wife, as she was calling from another location. The cops would have either had to secure a warrant to enter your house, or they would eventually have gone away.

    Just my two cents.
    Last edited by ed2276; 02-20-2012 at 09:52 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by yotetrapper View Post
    I posted this because of the LEO interaction, I've never been placed in cuffs before and I was wondering if I had done something wrong, if the officers had done something wrong or if its just how things work. And it's a "Story From My State"
    If the officer believes you are violent or could possible become violent and you are being detained he can place you in handcuffs while conducting his investigation. It doesn't mean you have done anything wrong. It just means the officer feels insecure in the situation.

  17. #17
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing your experience with the forum.

    I must say, it was an interesting read, to say the least.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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    Quote Originally Posted by yotetrapper View Post
    Nope, nothing more to it, just a long story with a simple question.
    Also, was that technicaly a "Terry Stop", or did I use the wrong title?
    It could be considered a "Terry Stop".

    Terry is:

    1. Officer has reasonable suspicion that a crime is about to be committed.
    2. Officer approaches suspect to question him.
    3. Officer performs exterior pat down of suspect's clothing for weapons.

    The officer in your situation had reasonable suspicion to stop you based on your friend's claim that she may have been assaulted or battered at your residence. He was investigating a possible crime, and you came from the location of that possible crime. Thus, he had reasonable cause to stop and question you.

    Terry went to the reasonableness of allowing an officer in such a situation to search for weapons on those he was contacting with regard to a violent crime. Because the officer had a report of physical violence, the officer could lawfully search you (an exterior pat down for weapons) in order to satisfy himself that you did not have any weapons on you. He had already seen your empty holster and you admitted to having a gun in the vehicle. He handcuffed you for his safety while conducting the investigation.

    You didn't mention this detail, but after he asked about the empty holster and the gun did he do a pat down search on you?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    Without RAS I don't think the police can be on or come onto private property and cuff you. So, if you're sure that 'street' is on your land you could file a complaint.
    The police had a report of an alleged assault, possible battery, at a home. They have the authority to enter private property to conduct an investigation. Yotetrapper has the right to not answer the door, or to demand the cops produce a warrant to enter his home. Without the warrant, Yotetrapper can demand the cops leave his property.

  20. #20
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    He did do a pat down on the holster itself and around my belt line. And then asked of I had a CCW."

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Thanks for sharing your experience with the forum.
    No milproguy, thank you.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
    [Miller vs. U.S., 230 F. Supp. 486, 489 (1956)]
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional rights.”
    [Sherar vs. Cullen, 481 F2d. 946 (1973)]

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by yotetrapper View Post
    Technically I was on my neighbors property... would a complaint still applicable?
    I would double check all of this property info if I were you. As far as I know, property in Nevada isn't legal to sell if it is "land locked" by other private property, which by your description sounds like yours would be. If it IS "land locked" there would have needed to be an official permanent easement of use, which I would suspect may be the case and may be what caused the road sign to exist. If I had to guess, your "driveway" is in fact a road created by easement, and it was probably done as it was the only legal way to have the two properties sale-able.

  23. #23
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2276 View Post

    How could you have avoided this? Realizing that you have had alcohol to drink, you could have just stayed home and not driven at all. Your friend called the police; obviously, you were not a resource she needed to get to where she wanted to be. She used the cops for that.
    I suppose I could have been a total jerk like that and just let her wonder off thru the desert but that's just not who I am.

    The alcohol I had consumed was minimal, 0.028. I was definitely not concerned of a DUI, especially on my driveway.

    Also I had no way to know she would call the sheriffs. When most people want a ride they call a cab, not the cops.I'm actually surprised they gave her a ride. I've heard the sheriffs tell people before, "We are But a taxi service! "

    I was more asking about the LEO interaction and not the social situation leading up to it. Which your other posts do touch on. Thanks for your replys.

  24. #24
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    28kfps- Thank for that reply. You pretty much nailed my question. I definitely think, if there's a next time, I'll get that window down and just keep my hands on the wheel.
    Last edited by yotetrapper; 02-21-2012 at 09:03 AM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member yotetrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmijackso View Post
    I would double check all of this property info if I were you. As far as I know, property in Nevada isn't legal to sell if it is "land locked" by other private property, which by your description sounds like yours would be. If it IS "land locked" there would have needed to be an official permanent easement of use, which I would suspect may be the case and may be what caused the road sign to exist. If I had to guess, your "driveway" is in fact a road created by easement, and it was probably done as it was the only legal way to have the two properties sale-able.
    Thanks. I will definitely look into this.

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