Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 37

Thread: No 1st A About 2nd A in School

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948

    No 1st A About 2nd A in School

    I took Eko shooting today, we got to talking about stuff. I let her shoot the .40, and I said to her, "Now you can tell your friends you got to shoot your dads .40". She told me, "We aren't allowed to talk about guns in school".

    Wait, WTF?

    I said "What do you mean, you're not allowed to talk about guns in school?" She said, "Yep, we can't talk about them, or we'll get suspended". "Ohellno" I said. "You can talk about whatever you want in school, and if you get suspended, you're not in trouble". I said, it don't matter if you are 9 or 90 you have freedom of speech in this country, if you want to talk about God, guns, or anything else that doesn't hurt anybody else, you can, and if they say anything about it, I'll go down there myself and deal with it".

    She said, "Oh we can talk about religion, or whatever else we want to, we just can't talk about guns". I said, "Lemme get this straight, you have a first amendment right, and you can talk about it, but you can't talk about the sacond amendment". She says, pretty much". I said, Well, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense now, does it?. She says, "Nope." I tell ya, the girl knows what's up, even though she's only in the 4th grade.

    So, my 9 year old daughter, who is a pretty darn good shot by the way, can't talk to her friends or teachers when she goes out to the range, or if I bring her to one of the OC picnics with you fine people.

    Rant off.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 02-20-2012 at 06:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    just told her, she's sitting on my lap right now, "If you get suspended, just tell them, "Thats ok, you can suspend me, and my dad will just take me to the range".

    I swear, if she does get suspended, that's exactly what's gonna happen. Daddy daughter day at the range, we're gonna go make some noise. F-that.

  3. #3
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    I talk about guns quite a bit. Not in a "glorification of violence" sort of way, more as a "tool for a job" sort of way. Is there a written policy somewhere that the district has? Or, as is most likely the case, that some anti has misapplied whatever rules exist.

    I was pleasantly shocked earlier this Fall when my daughter came home and talked to me about the Bill of Rights and that their teacher said that,at least according to the Constitution, the Government can't make laws against that right. My daughter even told the class that her dad carries a gun "all the time". Some of the kids asked if I was a cop or wore it for my job.... she told me that she said "No, he's a teacher".
    Last weekend, she told me that while discussing hunting in class, another student said that they were afraid of guns. My daughter said "Why, it isn't like a gun is just going to just shoot somebody if no one is there to pull the trigger".
    Last edited by DrTodd; 02-20-2012 at 07:01 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Battle Creek, MI
    Posts
    578
    Glad to see you getting your daughter around firearms and shooting and that she can handle herself a .40 My girl (22) just started shooting .22 and isnt too keen on 9mm yet..wait til I tell her this!

    You know, this reminds me of the kid that got suspended for taking bites out of his pizza and getting suspended because he shaped it into a gun...

    I remember being in school making paper "guns", we would fold the paper up and it would look like a gun...teacher only took them because we were being distracting to other students and all they did was throw them away lol.

    The middle school I used to go to even had a shooting team back in the 40's and 50's I believe it was, things have gotten way out of hand. I certainly blame the parents for their kids taking guns to school...first, education, teach them about guns and that its not a toy and real guns should never be used as a toy and should only be handled when you (the adult) are around, second, the gun should be locked up and secured somewhere the child, A.) doesnt know where its at and B.) cant access it if they do know where its at. But its pretty ridiculous that she can talk about religion and whatever else she wants to talk about but cant talk about how her dad is teaching her gun safety and how she went shooting? What happened to the world?
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Battle Creek, MI
    Posts
    578
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I talk about guns quite a bit. Not in a "glorification of violence" sort of way, more as a "tool for a job" sort of way. Is there a written policy somewhere that the district has? Or, as is most likely the case, that some anti has misapplied whatever rules exist.

    I was pleasantly shocked earlier this Fall when my daughter came home and talked to me about the Bill of Rights and that their teacher said that,at least according to the Constitution, the Government can't make laws against that right. My daughter even told the class that her dad carries a gun "all the time". Some of the kids asked if I was a cop or wore it for my job.... she told me that she said "No, he's a teacher".
    Last weekend, she told me that while discussing hunting in class, another student said that they were afraid of guns. My daughter said "Why, it isn't like a gun is just going to just shoot somebody if no one is there to pull the trigger".
    Sounds like shes paying attention..good for her!
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    1,929
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    She told me, "We aren't allowed to talk about guns in school".

    Wait, WTF?
    Welcome to the oh so wonderful 'Zero Tolerance Weapons Policy' school mentality.


  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    All I know, is what she toldme at this point, aside from the song and dance they gave us last year. I'll find out.

    I wanted her to have fun with guns, but to be able to defend herself if need be. She knows how to field strip then XD and the M&P, and can already load up to 5 rounds in a magazine, rack, aim, and fire a .40 with sufficient accuracy, and still maintain control of the weapon.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361
    Students Beware: Do not brandish your pizza guns at school.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/stude...ds-us-15171514


  9. #9
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    My brother one time said the word "bomb" in school. Not in a threatening way or anything just talking about bombs he had learned about from someone we know in the military. They called my mom into the school and said if he used the word again he would be expelled.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  10. #10
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Warren, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,101
    Yep. My cousin in law's son said his farts smell like atomic bombs. He was suspended. He's 7. Cool huh?
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  11. #11
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    I remember being in the 5th grade (2002) and our teaching saying if we ever see someone walking around the school with a gun to tell a teacher immediately! Looking back it's amazing how antigun school was. If we had anything that even resembled a gun we couldn't have it. I also remember learning about the constitution in the 3rd grade and the only thing that was mentioned about the 2nd amendment that it allowed people to have guns. At that time I didn't understand why our founding farthers would put such a thing in the constitution or why we really need something to allow us to own guns. I also remember my liberal 7th grade English teacher saying having a reasonable restriction like a waiting period to purchase a gun was a good idea and asked someone in the class to explain why. Sorry for the rambling just figured I'd post some of my experiences.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    23
    they do smell like atomic bombs it's ok cause your cousin in-laws dad OC's at the meetings he has with said teachers. .. his younger brother now... he will stand up, look you in the eye and say " You know, OC is legal in Michigan" as I found out last week when he was "educating" a Macomb County deputy

    Blasted out with my Photon using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    All I know, is what she told me at this point, aside from the song and dance they gave us last year. I'll find out.

    I wanted her to have fun with guns, but to be able to defend herself if need be. She knows how to field strip then XD and the M&P, and can already load up to 5 rounds in a magazine, rack, aim, and fire a .40 with sufficient accuracy, and still maintain control of the weapon.
    Just don't have her show them for "Show and Tell"... just kidding. I've met your daughter and as I recall, she is just as "independent" as mine... same age too. God bless them!

    Oh, I don't doubt that she was told this. I was just wondering what the official policy is. What I've found to often be the case is that a policy against promoting "violence" or "threatening harm to others" becomes interpreted to mean "no mention of guns, bombs, etc". I would find it very difficult to be able to discuss history or current events at any grade level with no mention of the tools that are used... whether they are used for good or evil. I do know teachers and other staff who have felt that they needed to keep their hobbies... such as shooting guns, under a strict don't ask, don't tell policy. I think you might be surprised the number of school staff that have a CPL, that hunt, that shoot (IDPA, Skeet, IHMSA, etc). Last year, about 80% of my school's staff had a CPL and many others shot regularly. This year, I've found that a majority of the new staff likewise have similar avocations. I do work with a (new) person who proclaimed she didn't like guns, but that's slowly changing. In fact, just last week she said that MAYBE she would like to go to a range and actually shoot some handguns... this from someone who marched with the MillionMoms (sic). Who knows, last Anti I did that with about 5 years ago now has a CPL and carries 24/7.

    I do worry, though, about what is happening in a nearby county, where school boards are demanding that staff contracts call for the possible termination of teachers partaking in any behaviors, off the job, that the school board defines as not reflecting the proper role that teachers have as educators. Could my OC get me fired?? Could my discussions here be held against me??
    Last edited by DrTodd; 02-20-2012 at 09:09 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  14. #14
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mason, Michigan
    Posts
    1,811
    in my 6th grade(03) i was nearly suspended for having magazines from the north american hunting club on me for personal reading time, because they had "assault weapons"(a scoped winchester elk gun???) but other classmates were reading things glorifying "thug life" and illegal drugs without issue.

    I do know a younger girl that defies these types of rules down in wyandotte, wearing militia shirts on occasion to school, her father is a team leader in the smvm, and she is very supportive in school of the 2A and such for being only 13, she also helped her father set up the "michigan junior militia corp" which is for people aged 5-17 and is similar to the boy scouts/ girl scouts but upped a bit.
    http://michiganmilitia.com/projectone/jmc.htm
    so, at least not all of the younger people are giving in to what they know is wrong, not yet at least..
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    ... "We aren't allowed to talk about guns in school"...
    Can you get a copy of the exact written policy that the school has in this regard? I'll bet if they have one it'll be pretty easy to turn it around and bite them in the ass with it. Surely there is a history textbook somewhere on the campus. Oh, and what about what's in the library? Start a witch hunt.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    I will.

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    As a parent, do you have the right to sit on your children's classes?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Not sure.

    My parents have custody, I see her at will, and very frequently. Her school and I had quite a fight about open carry, so they aren't too fond of me.

  19. #19
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Just don't have her show them for "Show and Tell"... just kidding. I've met your daughter and as I recall, she is just as "independent" as mine... same age too. God bless them!

    Oh, I don't doubt that she was told this. I was just wondering what the official policy is. What I've found to often be the case is that a policy against promoting "violence" or "threatening harm to others" becomes interpreted to mean "no mention of guns, bombs, etc". I would find it very difficult to be able to discuss history or current events at any grade level with no mention of the tools that are used... whether they are used for good or evil. I do know teachers and other staff who have felt that they needed to keep their hobbies... such as shooting guns, under a strict don't ask, don't tell policy. I think you might be surprised the number of school staff that have a CPL, that hunt, that shoot (IDPA, Skeet, IHMSA, etc). Last year, about 80% of my school's staff had a CPL and many others shot regularly. This year, I've found that a majority of the new staff likewise have similar avocations. I do work with a (new) person who proclaimed she didn't like guns, but that's slowly changing. In fact, just last week she said that MAYBE she would like to go to a range and actually shoot some handguns... this from someone who marched with the MillionMoms (sic). Who knows, last Anti I did that with about 5 years ago now has a CPL and carries 24/7.

    I do worry, though, about what is happening in a nearby county, where school boards are demanding that staff contracts call for the possible termination of teachers partaking in any behaviors, off the job, that the school board defines as not reflecting the proper role that teachers have as educators. Could my OC get me fired?? Could my discussions here be held against me??

    Yes IMO if the School Board were to determine that your posting and advocating well,, anything! Didn't fit with the world view of those board members and they have a signature saying that they could indeed rule you that way then yes I suppose they could. Could this be something along the lines as mandatory submission to a vehicle search?
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Battle Creek, MI
    Posts
    578
    Can your job really have the liberty to dictate what you do off the clock, off the property? What you do in your free time is not their business as long as you show up for work and get the job done without your activity in your personal time leaking into your workplace.

    Stainless, good luck on looking into this...but just make sure you dont get in over your head and make any situations with the school any worse. Keep us up to date, Id like to hear what progress is hopefully being made.
    The worst weapon is the human mind, its created and done things far worse than a gun can, has, or ever will. Its the human mind that tells the gun what to do and animates the inanimate object.

    With all these gun control laws in place I have yet to find a single one that has saved someones life, but I can find hundreds of stories where a gun has.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    What will they do if this gets enacted into Law?

    http://www.nraila.org/legislation/st...=&st=10486&ps=
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Davisburg, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    8,948
    Either ignore it, like all the other laws that don't suit them, or teach the minimum with a heavy anti twist, censorship, and lies through omission.

  23. #23
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Okemos, MI
    Posts
    884
    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post
    Can your job really have the liberty to dictate what you do off the clock, off the property?
    Some employers now have anti-tobacco policies. It started with on-property violations (even smoking in your own car during lunch) and has expanded from there.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  24. #24
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portage, MI
    Posts
    1,490
    Quote Originally Posted by Yance View Post
    Can your job really have the liberty to dictate what you do off the clock, off the property? What you do in your free time is not their business as long as you show up for work and get the job done without your activity in your personal time leaking into your workplace.

    Stainless, good luck on looking into this...but just make sure you dont get in over your head and make any situations with the school any worse. Keep us up to date, Id like to hear what progress is hopefully being made.
    If you sign the contract with them....Also in Michigan they do not have to provide a reason for firing you.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southwest, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    291
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    As a parent, do you have the right to sit on your children's classes?
    Oh yeah...

    " Parents and legal guardians are permitted, within reason, to observe instructional activity in a class or course in which the pupil is enrolled and present. A school board may adopt policies and guidelines concerning these permitted activities and must make them available to the public"



    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/pa...s_122553_7.pdf

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •