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Thread: My First Open Carry Harassment

  1. #1
    Regular Member dwordinger's Avatar
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    My First Open Carry Harassment

    I've carried around Spokane and never had any problem, issue, or concern expressed by anyone, until last weekend. I've also carried on the west side abound Seattle, and Bellingham. A week ago I was in Everett and carried in the Comcast Arena with no problem.

    This last weekend Dr. Ron Paul came to Spokane and I was a volunteer collecting contact information from some of the people who came to hear him speak. The event was held in the Spokane Convention Center owned by the Spokane Public Facilities District. I was approached by one of the facility's employees and told it was their policy not to allow the carrying of firearms. I wish I had been able to record the conversation, but he first said something like he couldn't make me leave the building or remove my weapon but it was their policy to not allow weapons in the building. I told him I didn't care about his policy, Washington State Preemption Law says I can carry in the Convention Center. He went on about his policy and said I had to take my weapon out to my car. I politely informed him I did not. I didn't want to escalate the encounter and I certainly didn't want to cause a disturbance for Ron Paul's event, but I let him know he was wrong. He quickly backed off a bit and said I didn't have to take my pistol out to my car if I concealed it. I have a CPL so to end the discourse I pulled out my shirt tail and concealed my pistol. In retrospect, I should have acted as if I did not have a CPL and said something like, "Carrying concealed without a CPL is against the law." I didn't want to lie to him, but I could have made a statement of fact he may have misinterpreted as to my status.

    Under different circumstances I may have pressed the issue farther, but I didn't want to cause a disturbance at the Ron Paul event. Dr. Paul is the only Republican Candidate who has been consistently supportive of our Second Amendment right and all other civil rights so making the presence of a person (one of his volunteers) carrying a pistol in the lobby into an issue of any sort could have been mischaracterized by some, including the media.

    The harassment didn't amount to that much. It's just unfortunate that some people feel so worthless they feel the need to justify their existence by feigning authority over others.

  2. #2
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    You still need your CPL to carry in a stadium

    RCW 9.41.300
    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:
    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    FYI - while the stadium may be city/county/state owned if it is managed by a 3rd party, they set the rules and can say no firearms.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    I was under the impression that Ron Paul has invited CC holders to the front of his events as security.
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    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    You still need your CPL to carry in a stadium

    RCW 9.41.300
    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:
    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    FYI - while the stadium may be city/county/state owned if it is managed by a 3rd party, they set the rules and can say no firearms.
    It's pretty much the same as it is in my area too.

    I didn't think it sounded quite right that the gentleman was openly carrying a firearm in a convention center.
    Last edited by MilProGuy; 02-20-2012 at 10:02 PM. Reason: added "openly" for the sake of clarity.
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  5. #5
    Regular Member dwordinger's Avatar
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    M1gunr, I wasn't aware of that, but buy asking me to conceal, he was assuming I had a CPL or was ignorant of the law. If he assumed I had a CPL, he would have to assume I was exempt from his policy. There is nothing that says a person with a CPL has to carry concealed.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    It's pretty much the same as it is in my area too.

    I didn't think it sounded quite right that the gentleman was openly carrying a firearm in a convention center.
    If I understand your post correctly, the RCW does not require you to conceal carry it just requires you to have a cpl.
    And I should have added, that unless the city or county has an ordinance prohibiting carry in a convention center with out a license, then a cpl is not required.

    RCW 9.41.300(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:
    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:
    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or
    Last edited by BigDave; 02-21-2012 at 09:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    It's pretty much the same as it is in my area too.

    I didn't think it sounded quite right that the gentleman was openly carrying a firearm in a convention center.
    It was just fine under Washington State law that he was OCing, the law only requires you to have a CPL to carry in a convention center or arena it does not require you to conceal.
    Last edited by Jeff Hayes; 02-20-2012 at 10:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwordinger View Post
    I've carried around Spokane and never had any problem, issue, or concern expressed by anyone, until last weekend. I've also carried on the west side abound Seattle, and Bellingham. A week ago I was in Everett and carried in the Comcast Arena with no problem.

    This last weekend Dr. Ron Paul came to Spokane and I was a volunteer collecting contact information from some of the people who came to hear him speak. The event was held in the Spokane Convention Center owned by the Spokane Public Facilities District. I was approached by one of the facility's employees and told it was their policy not to allow the carrying of firearms. I wish I had been able to record the conversation, but he first said something like he couldn't make me leave the building or remove my weapon but it was their policy to not allow weapons in the building. I told him I didn't care about his policy, Washington State Preemption Law says I can carry in the Convention Center. He went on about his policy and said I had to take my weapon out to my car. I politely informed him I did not. I didn't want to escalate the encounter and I certainly didn't want to cause a disturbance for Ron Paul's event, but I let him know he was wrong. He quickly backed off a bit and said I didn't have to take my pistol out to my car if I concealed it. I have a CPL so to end the discourse I pulled out my shirt tail and concealed my pistol. In retrospect, I should have acted as if I did not have a CPL and said something like, "Carrying concealed without a CPL is against the law." I didn't want to lie to him, but I could have made a statement of fact he may have misinterpreted as to my status.

    Under different circumstances I may have pressed the issue farther, but I didn't want to cause a disturbance at the Ron Paul event. Dr. Paul is the only Republican Candidate who has been consistently supportive of our Second Amendment right and all other civil rights so making the presence of a person (one of his volunteers) carrying a pistol in the lobby into an issue of any sort could have been mischaracterized by some, including the media.

    The harassment didn't amount to that much. It's just unfortunate that some people feel so worthless they feel the need to justify their existence by feigning authority over others.
    I wish I had gotten home a day sooner from Arizona I would have been right there with you.

  9. #9
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    Good on you for carrying at Dr. Paul's event; based on his voting record and rhetoric, I believe he would have been supportive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    You still need your CPL to carry in a stadium

    RCW 9.41.300
    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:
    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    FYI - while the stadium may be city/county/state owned if it is managed by a 3rd party, they set the rules and can say no firearms.
    Do they lease the facility or just manage it? If I own a home and hire a management company to rent it out are they not under my empoly and therefore I am still the owner? Does this 3rd party pay all the costs and expences involved with this convention center or is taxpayer money used also? There is a big legal difference in leasing and managing. IANAL. It would be curious to know the true legal status of this 3rd party.

  11. #11
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I was under the impression that Ron Paul has invited CC holders to the front of his events as security.
    Right up to the point he is given Secret Service Protection (should he make it that far). Expect anyone carrying a gun, invited or not, to be either kept out or far, far, away.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Right up to the point he is given Secret Service Protection (should he make it that far). Expect anyone carrying a gun, invited or not, to be either kept out or far, far, away.
    Since it's highly unlikely he will qualify to receive SS protection there is nothing for any of his supporters to worry about.
    Live Free or Die!

  13. #13
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Since it's highly unlikely he will qualify to receive SS protection there is nothing for any of his supporters to worry about.
    That would indicate that he's just in the race either for fun or to be able to barter his support for a position in a Republican Administration. And that sets Ron Paul aside from the normal scheming politician how?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Was it a Ron Paul staff member or a local staff member who set up the event? Dr. Paul has attended events with people OC, especially for the Free Staters in New Hamphsire if I am not mistaken.

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    That would indicate that he's just in the race either for fun or to be able to barter his support for a position in a Republican Administration. And that sets Ron Paul aside from the normal scheming politician how?
    Yes Dr. Paul is astute politically what sets him apart is his true conservative/liberal stand point that the government isn't the solution. His voting record shows this.



    The only reason Ron Paul isn't winning is because there really are too many who are afraid to vote for the only candidate who doesn't supports our continual slide into fascism it's truly sad to people speak about freedom and constitution and not vote for the one guy who actually believes it.

    Get rid of the drug wars.
    Stop the growth of the police state.
    Get rid of the Federal reserve.
    Stop intervening where we are not wanted in the world militarily, instead of promoting an attitude of trade and good will.
    Roll back unconstitutional "executive" laws and "powers" returning the office of president to what it was meant to be.
    Not support corporatism over capitalism.
    Notice just the few things I listed are all things the "conservatives" support yet cost us trillions of dollars in taxes, and worse yet loss of our fundamental liberties.


    Yep I will not waste my vote on Gingrich or Romney or Obama, they are all engineers of the same train continuing down the tracks of tyranny.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 02-21-2012 at 03:00 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    All of us have to keep in mind...just because we have a CPL, does not mean we have to conceal.

    In this everyone may be right, and then again, may be wrong. State law says IF a town restricts carry at a convention center, this restriction does not apply if the person holds a CPL... It has nothing to do with OC or CC, it has to do with whether or not you have a CPL...(and it does not say "on your person" it only says you must hold one)

    So, does the Spokane convention center have a restriction on carry? (I'm not talking about "policy", I'm talking about a Spokane City ordinance.) I don't know, and I don't care. If you hold a CPL you can carry, OC or CC at your discression. I do know the Spokane convention center is owned/operated by the City.

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Was it a Ron Paul staff member or a local staff member who set up the event? Dr. Paul has attended events with people OC, especially for the Free Staters in New Hamphsire if I am not mistaken.



    Yes Dr. Paul is astute politically what sets him apart is his true conservative/liberal stand point that the government isn't the solution. His voting record shows this.



    The only reason Ron Paul isn't winning is because there really are too many who are afraid to vote for the only candidate who doesn't supports our continual slide into fascism it's truly sad to people speak about freedom and constitution and not vote for the one guy who actually believes it.

    Get rid of the drug wars.
    Stop the growth of the police state.
    Get rid of the Federal reserve.
    Stop intervening where we are not wanted in the world militarily, instead of promoting an attitude of trade and good will.
    Roll back unconstitutional "executive" laws and "powers" returning the office of president to what it was meant to be.
    Not support corporatism over capitalism.
    Notice just the few things I listed are all things the "conservatives" support yet cost us trillions of dollars in taxes, and worse yet loss of our fundamental liberties.


    Yep I will not waste my vote on Gingrich or Romney or Obama, they are all engineers of the same train continuing down the tracks of tyranny.
    I am unafraid to vote for such a candidate, and I will do so. Anybody else?
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

  17. #17
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    I am unafraid to vote for such a candidate, and I will do so. Anybody else?
    To early to tell which candidate I will choose though it would not be Obama lol.
    On a serious note I will take into consideration who is running and who really has a chance of winning to ensure Obama is not the one.
    While there are strong supporters for Ron Paul but if he is not likely to win then a lesser of the two evils are better then another term in what we have now.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    All of us have to keep in mind...just because we have a CPL, does not mean we have to conceal.

    In this everyone may be right, and then again, may be wrong. State law says IF a town restricts carry at a convention center, this restriction does not apply if the person holds a CPL... It has nothing to do with OC or CC, it has to do with whether or not you have a CPL...(and it does not say "on your person" it only says you must hold one)

    So, does the Spokane convention center have a restriction on carry? (I'm not talking about "policy", I'm talking about a Spokane City ordinance.) I don't know, and I don't care. If you hold a CPL you can carry, OC or CC at your discression. I do know the Spokane convention center is owned/operated by the City.
    I was thinking the same thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    I am unafraid to vote for such a candidate, and I will do so. Anybody else?
    I'm afraid to vote for anyone else. He will get my vote.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    To early to tell which candidate I will choose though it would not be Obama lol.
    On a serious note I will take into consideration who is running and who really has a chance of winning to ensure Obama is not the one.
    While there are strong supporters for Ron Paul but if he is not likely to win then a lesser of the two evils are better then another term in what we have now.
    +1000, Well said Dave

  20. #20
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    March 3, 10:00, Republicians will caucus here in WA. If you want a voice get in there and fight (not just vote, it's a beauty contest until we get to state) for a delegate that will hnestly support Ron Paul.

    If you do not have a Ron Paul Delegate to the county caucas from your precinct, put yourself in the mix, and then work to get a Ron Paul delegate to state from the county Caucus. Again, make yourself a candidate for delegate if there is no-one else you trust to do it.

    I have been to state, (1988) unfortunately by the time of the state convention, Ron had already started a third party bid. I'm just praying my wife is well enough for us to attend out local caucus, I am going to get down there at 09:30 to make sure I know who is what, and where the combined precinct's are headed....I do not want to stand by this year like I had to last time because of my wife's illness.

    Go Ron Paul!!!! He is the only one we can trust, all the rest are split tongued, weather vein headed, rubber band backboned double-talkers

  21. #21
    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    March 3, 10:00, Republicians will caucus here in WA. If you want a voice get in there and fight (not just vote, it's a beauty contest until we get to state) for a delegate that will hnestly support Ron Paul.

    If you do not have a Ron Paul Delegate to the county caucas from your precinct, put yourself in the mix, and then work to get a Ron Paul delegate to state from the county Caucus. Again, make yourself a candidate for delegate if there is no-one else you trust to do it.

    I have been to state, (1988) unfortunately by the time of the state convention, Ron had already started a third party bid. I'm just praying my wife is well enough for us to attend out local caucus, I am going to get down there at 09:30 to make sure I know who is what, and where the combined precinct's are headed....I do not want to stand by this year like I had to last time because of my wife's illness.

    Go Ron Paul!!!! He is the only one we can trust, all the rest are split tongued, weather vein headed, rubber band backboned double-talkers

    THIS!! I was just looking up my caucus location tonight before coming on the boards. It is imperative that we, as voters, participate.

  22. #22
    Regular Member dwordinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    I wish I had gotten home a day sooner from Arizona I would have been right there with you.
    Lucky you, and everyone else in the area. Dr.Paul is coming back noon Friday, 2 March. The location is yet to be determined, but I'll let you know as soon as I find out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwordinger View Post
    Lucky you, and everyone else in the area. Dr.Paul is coming back noon Friday, 2 March. The location is yet to be determined, but I'll let you know as soon as I find out.
    Let me know I will be there, I would love to shake his hand. Is he giving another speech? Do you need volunteers?

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Some one should make a children's book Called "my first open carry harassment" that would be golden.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Thor80's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    Let me know I will be there, I would love to shake his hand. Is he giving another speech? Do you need volunteers?
    I'm down with going with you guys. Let me know also. I have Fridays off!.

    -Thor

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