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Thread: Getting a Handgun

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    Getting a Handgun

    Hi, I'm 20 currently living in St.Louis county and I was wondering if there was any way i can get a handgun legally, buy ammo, and carry on my person? Also what if I get stopped by a cop while driving or walking and he sees the gun and takes it/tries to take it?

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    Welcome to the forum, and stand by for assistance from some of our more knowledgeable members.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


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    Quote Originally Posted by MilProGuy View Post
    Welcome to the forum, and stand by for assistance from some of our more knowledgeable members.
    ok will do....i have a lot more questions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostile314 View Post
    Hi, I'm 20 currently living in St.Louis county and I was wondering if there was any way i can get a handgun legally, buy ammo, and carry on my person? Also what if I get stopped by a cop while driving or walking and he sees the gun and takes it/tries to take it?
    The handgun would have to be gifted to you. or loaned to you with the owner's permission. The ammo is a grayer area, but you're likely to get carded and refused. So, same deal there. Your only option until you are 21 is to carry openly. But, Missouri allows cities and counties set their own laws regarding open carry. From what I undersand, St. Louis County has no laws against it, but a lot of the little cities do as well as St. Louis City proper. Also, since you do not have a CCW endorsement, you are subject to the 1000 foot Federal GFSZ around schools.

    If a LEO sees a gun, and tries to take it, you would do well to comply. You are certainly welcome to say that you do not want your gun to be seized, but do or say nothing that might end up with you dead on the sidewalk. If that happens, you lose.

    Basically, you can do it, but it's full of traps until we get our stupid laws changed. We are actively working on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    The handgun would have to be gifted to you. or loaned to you with the owner's permission. The ammo is a grayer area, but you're likely to get carded and refused. So, same deal there. Your only option until you are 21 is to carry openly. But, Missouri allows cities and counties set their own laws regarding open carry. From what I undersand, St. Louis County has no laws against it, but a lot of the little cities do as well as St. Louis City proper. Also, since you do not have a CCW endorsement, you are subject to the 1000 foot Federal GFSZ around schools.

    If a LEO sees a gun, and tries to take it, you would do well to comply. You are certainly welcome to say that you do not want your gun to be seized, but do or say nothing that might end up with you dead on the sidewalk. If that happens, you lose.

    Basically, you can do it, but it's full of traps until we get our stupid laws changed. We are actively working on that.

    I've been doing some extensive research of the laws and i've found out that i can legally buy a handgun through a private sale but I'm kinda weary about that with the police and of course i will give it up but with them not knowing and if that county does not have any law that prohibits possession under 21 then i should be fine right? Even federal law states that it can be purchased through a private seller...another thing is that can it be a gift from my uncle? I know I can buy handgun rounds from a FFL holder if the rounds are intended for a rifle which the FFL dealer wouldn't know that more or less believe...I went to the Marines and I believe anyone who's been in the Armed Services at anytime should be able to purchase and carry. Also are suppressors in MO illegal even if you fill out the appropriate forms? I've been looking at the laws for a long time but just want to get a clear understanding of some of them and also because of some police can be butt holes should i wait till i turn 21 in September or get a Maine CCW?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostile314 View Post
    I've been doing some extensive research of the laws and i've found out that i can legally buy a handgun through a private sale but I'm kinda weary about that with the police and of course i will give it up but with them not knowing and if that county does not have any law that prohibits possession under 21 then i should be fine right? Even federal law states that it can be purchased through a private seller...another thing is that can it be a gift from my uncle? I know I can buy handgun rounds from a FFL holder if the rounds are intended for a rifle which the FFL dealer wouldn't know that more or less believe...I went to the Marines and I believe anyone who's been in the Armed Services at anytime should be able to purchase and carry. Also are suppressors in MO illegal even if you fill out the appropriate forms? I've been looking at the laws for a long time but just want to get a clear understanding of some of them and also because of some police can be butt holes should i wait till i turn 21 in September or get a Maine CCW?
    It can be privately purchased also, of course. I'm sorry I forgot to mention that. It can be gifted or purchased from anyone except a FFL, no particular degree of blood relation required.

    The entire field of firearms legislation has been preempted by the state, except for open carry and discharge. So, don't worry about city/county laws for anything else. just worry about state.

    Suppressors are legal of you have the tax stamp.

    Missouri honors all CC licenses from anywhere. There is no difference for you whether you got in in MO or Maine, with the single (quite notable) exception of the fact that you are exempt from the GFSZ law when you are in the state that issued your your permit. As a matter of fact, I wish I could get a KS permit for that very reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    It can be privately purchased also, of course. I'm sorry I forgot to mention that. It can be gifted or purchased from anyone except a FFL, no particular degree of blood relation required.

    The entire field of firearms legislation has been preempted by the state, except for open carry and discharge. So, don't worry about city/county laws for anything else. just worry about state.

    Suppressors are legal of you have the tax stamp.

    Missouri honors all CC licenses from anywhere. There is no difference for you whether you got in in MO or Maine, with the single (quite notable) exception of the fact that you are exempt from the GFSZ law when you are in the state that issued your your permit. As a matter of fact, I wish I could get a KS permit for that very reason.
    oh ok cool...i thought suppressors were illegal even if you feel out the federal forms and i think you have to be 21 anyway...I guess I'm mostly worried about the police because most if not all don't know the law at all

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    Here is a thread from last week with some good info and law links.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...W-How-to-carry

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    The handgun would have to be gifted to you. or loaned to you with the owner's permission. The ammo is a grayer area, but you're likely to get carded and refused. So, same deal there. Your only option until you are 21 is to carry openly. But, Missouri allows cities and counties set their own laws regarding open carry. From what I undersand, St. Louis County has no laws against it, but a lot of the little cities do as well as St. Louis City proper. Also, since you do not have a CCW endorsement, you are subject to the 1000 foot Federal GFSZ around schools.

    If a LEO sees a gun, and tries to take it, you would do well to comply. You are certainly welcome to say that you do not want your gun to be seized, but do or say nothing that might end up with you dead on the sidewalk. If that happens, you lose.

    Basically, you can do it, but it's full of traps until we get our stupid laws changed. We are actively working on that.
    A person can acquire a non resident concealed permit from the state of Maine at the age of 18 or older and legally CCW in MO since MO honors permits from all states and all political subdivisions thereof.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    A person can acquire a non resident concealed permit from the state of Maine at the age of 18 or older and legally CCW in MO since MO honors permits from all states and all political subdivisions thereof.
    Do they still not have to meet our age requirement? I am by no means an expert, but just a conversation that I had last spring, including one individual who is an attorney, that stated they still have to meet our guidelines, including age.

    Anyone else with some info?
    Last edited by Redbaron007; 02-21-2012 at 10:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostile314 View Post
    Hi, I'm 20 currently living in St.Louis county and I was wondering if there was any way i can get a handgun legally, buy ammo, and carry on my person? Also what if I get stopped by a cop while driving or walking and he sees the gun and takes it/tries to take it?
    Study and know the applicable 'unlawful use of weapon laws' for each and every municipality your normally/routinely travel through in STL County, St Charles County too for that matter. It is a patchwork of OC banned, not banned w/CCW, not banned at all in the STL Metro area. Plan your daily travels to avoid the OC banned/ OK w/CCW areas.

    Stay out of the city.

    The burden is placed upon the carrier to know the laws where they are. This will be where most of your efforts should be focused. Buy a audio recording device that will record from dawn until dusk. Video is a plus. Have a separate audio/video recording device for in-vehicle use only.

    If you are a apartment dweller, know the complex rules and regs.

    Plan on changing some of your preferred shopping habits due to gun buster signs.

    Grow a very thick skin.

    Be prepared to have a change in some friendships, familial relationships. Even business relationships.

    Buy a secure storage container for your vehicle, a really good one.

    Get a lawyer on speed dial.

    Range time, practice, practice, practice.

    Booze and guns don't mix for the most part.

    Once you step out the door of your 'home' never touch your firearm with your hand unless you must use it as defined under RSMo.

    KNOW THIS!!! RSMo 563

    Know this and the rest of RSMo 571:
    RSMo 571.030.3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, <snip>

    RSMo 571.030
    Get your CCW at first opportunity. In fact, see if you can take a CCW course prior to 21 and apply for the CCW the day you turn 21.

    get the separate ID for your CCW.

    Getting the firearm, ammo and accoutrements is they easy part....

    Welcome and good luck.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Do they still not have to meet our age requirement? I am by no means an expert, but just a conversation that I had last spring, including one individual who is an attorney, that stated they still have to meet our guidelines, including age.

    Anyone else with some info?
    A permit from another state does not have to meet Missouri requirements. Maine issues at 18 with some proof of firearms safety training, such as NRA basic pistol. Once the permit is acquired, they will of course have to carry and abide by the laws of Missouri, or whatever state they are in. But they are not bound by Missouri law to acquire the permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter64738 View Post
    A permit from another state does not have to meet Missouri requirements. Maine issues at 18 with some proof of firearms safety training, such as NRA basic pistol. Once the permit is acquired, they will of course have to carry and abide by the laws of Missouri, or whatever state they are in. But they are not bound by Missouri law to acquire the permit.

    Thanks. I'm in your ballpark on this; but I was more curious about our actual verbage for reciprocity. OBTW, Maine doesn't honor the MO permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Do they still not have to meet our age requirement? I am by no means an expert, but just a conversation that I had last spring, including one individual who is an attorney, that stated they still have to meet our guidelines, including age.

    Anyone else with some info?

    This cpoied directly from RSMO 571.040



    4. Subdivisions (1), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section shall not apply to any person who has a valid concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 or a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.

    Maine issues at age 18 so a person would be legal in MO at 18 with a Maine permit even if they were a MO resident.

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    Our verbage for reciprocity is pretty straight forward. There isn't a list of states we honor, only this:
    571.030.4 (shortened for simplicity)
    'a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state.'
    571.107.1 (shortened for simplicity)
    'a concealed carry endorsement or permit issued by another state or political subdivision of another state'

    So without any stipulations, Missouri will honor a permit from any state that issues a permit, or any political subdivision that issues a permit.

    Maine, and a few other states publish a list of states where the permit is honored. Unfortunately Missouri isn't on all of them.

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    Thanks Shooter & 9026543.

    Today is brainfart day. I read through both of them and it didn't register!

    However, my follow up thought is; how many LEOs would allow a 19 year old CCWg a firearm let them get by? I can think of a couple of LEOs who would detain the individual until researched or let the prosecuting atty clear it up. It may not be right, but it is prolly pretty close to reality. Just a thought.

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    It is certainly a possibility. Generally it's not an issue. My son has been stopped while carrying and the officer knowing he was carrying a concealed firearm just asked him to have a seat in the front of his patrol car so he could explain his ticket.
    I have had discussions with officers in the past about the legalities of 18-20 year-olds carrying a firearm with and without a permit. It takes some verbal kung-fu and you have to give them an out to usually, to save face or they tend to become more and more defensive.

    There is some more info here:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...W-How-to-carry
    And here is an article from my blog:
    http://moccwi.blogspot.com/2011/05/p...-under-23.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter64738 View Post
    It is certainly a possibility. Generally it's not an issue. My son has been stopped while carrying and the officer knowing he was carrying a concealed firearm just asked him to have a seat in the front of his patrol car so he could explain his ticket.
    I have had discussions with officers in the past about the legalities of 18-20 year-olds carrying a firearm with and without a permit. It takes some verbal kung-fu and you have to give them an out to usually, to save face or they tend to become more and more defensive.

    There is some more info here:
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...W-How-to-carry
    And here is an article from my blog:
    http://moccwi.blogspot.com/2011/05/p...-under-23.html
    Appreciate the Blog info. I had followed the other thread, too.

    My neighbor has a 19 year old son who is searching out to get his CCW and ME was one he was looking at. He, I and several others had discussed this issue of LEOs not being fully up to speed on the reciprocity, even for those under 21. This thread made me think about our prior conversation, including the age requirement, which is pretty clear.

    Have a goodn!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostile314 View Post
    oh ok cool...i thought suppressors were illegal even if you feel out the federal forms and i think you have to be 21 anyway...I guess I'm mostly worried about the police because most if not all don't know the law at all
    Just as a sidenote you might like to know. A tax stamp for a suppressor will cost 200 bucks, and as far as i know you cant actually have the suppressor attached to your carry gun while legally carrying. Im not sure on this and someone please correct me if im wrong but i think the suppressor can only be used for hunting, target practice, and home defense. Again im not 100% on this because i gave up researching the laws on suppresors when i seen it would cost 200 bills just to legally own one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    The handgun would have to be gifted to you. or loaned to you with the owner's permission. The ammo is a grayer area, but you're likely to get carded and refused. So, same deal there. Your only option until you are 21 is to carry openly. But, Missouri allows cities and counties set their own laws regarding open carry. From what I undersand, St. Louis County has no laws against it, but a lot of the little cities do as well as St. Louis City proper. Also, since you do not have a CCW endorsement, you are subject to the 1000 foot Federal GFSZ around schools.

    If a LEO sees a gun, and tries to take it, you would do well to comply. You are certainly welcome to say that you do not want your gun to be seized, but do or say nothing that might end up with you dead on the sidewalk. If that happens, you lose.

    Basically, you can do it, but it's full of traps until we get our stupid laws changed. We are actively working on that.
    You are "half" right. In St. Louis county, the laws are riddle with crap that will get you in jail, if you open carry without a CCW. I live in Florissant, and its ok to OC, but only if you have a CCW. And other counties here if you OC, you will go STRIGHT to jail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostile314 View Post
    oh ok cool...i thought suppressors were illegal even if you feel out the federal forms and i think you have to be 21 anyway...I guess I'm mostly worried about the police because most if not all don't know the law at all
    "suppressors" are LEGAL... "slientsors" are ILLEGAL. But most cops don't know the difference and some come from areas like ST. City and think the laws are the same in the county.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg314 View Post
    You are "half" right. In St. Louis county, the laws are riddle with crap that will get you in jail, if you open carry without a CCW. I live in Florissant, and its ok to OC, but only if you have a CCW. And other counties here if you OC, you will go STRIGHT to jail.
    Oh ok and florissant is one of the main areas that i be in...and I can own a handgun now even without my CCW but not allowed to carry on my person...Also where can I find ads or something to buy handguns from a private seller?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firedawg314 View Post
    "suppressors" are LEGAL... "slientsors" are ILLEGAL. But most cops don't know the difference and some come from areas like ST. City and think the laws are the same in the county.
    Could you explain the difference between a suppressor, and this 'silentsor'?
    Are you referring to a device that will diminish the report of a firearm? Are you referring to a flash hider, versus a sound muffler?

    None of those are illegal with the proper paperwork.
    Last edited by Shooter64738; 02-22-2012 at 09:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    There is no difference for you whether you got in in MO or Maine, with the single (quite notable) exception of the fact that you are exempt from the GFSZ law ONLY when you are in the state that issued your your permit. As a matter of fact, I wish I could get a KS permit for that very reason.
    All good info. The bolded part is VERY important.
    Last edited by Oramac; 02-22-2012 at 10:57 AM.
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter64738 View Post
    Could you explain the difference between a suppressor, and this 'silentsor'?
    Are you referring to a device that will diminish the report of a firearm? Are you referring to a flash hider, versus a sound muffler?

    None of those are illegal with the proper paperwork.
    True silencers do not exist. It's just a common word used to describe a broad field of noise suppressors. Because that's all they do: suppress the noise of the firearm. You can still hear it, even if "it" is just the sound of the action cycling. The report is still there, it just isn't loud enough to be of consequence.

    Fun fact: firearm suppressors were invented by a hippie. He thought guns were scaring the birds, so he built a suppressor.
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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