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Thread: Vehicle OC in North Las Vegas?

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    Question Vehicle OC in North Las Vegas?

    How would you transport your firearm in North Las Vegas while Ocing so that you do not get arrested? Would pulling the mag and placing it on the seat next to you constitute an "un-loaded" gun that would be legal to OC in your car?

    I realize that the policy is in contest right now and that it goes against NRS 268.418, however I see no reason to put myself in a situation that I do not need to. That is not to say I will not still try and dispute this in other ways.

    Thank you,
    Tolerance

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    The only way to ensure you are not illegally harassed in NLV is to make sure they never see the firearm. Fortunately, it is completely legal to conceal the firearm anywhere in your vehicle (concealed on your person requires the permit though, even if you are in the vehicle.)

    OC in NLV is completely legal (per the state preemption) fully loaded, but there are numerous reports of illegal detainments and arrests because of it. Unloading it probably won't help much.
    Last edited by MAC702; 02-22-2012 at 02:00 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The only way to ensure you are not illegally harassed in NLV is to make sure they never see the firearm. Fortunately, it is completely legal to conceal the firearm anywhere in your vehicle (concealed on your person requires the permit though, even if you are in the vehicle.)

    OC in NLV is completely legal (per the state preemption) fully loaded, but there are numerous reports of illegal detainments and arrests because of it. Unloading it probably won't help much.
    Yes it is... just like in all the rest of Nevada... but when doing it in a vehicle in North Las Vegas, one does run the risk of "problems" with the police. There's that pesky little NLV Municipal Ordinance 9.32.080, which makes it "illegal" to possess a "dangerous weapon in a vehicle." NLV Police will cite and maybe even arrest "violators" (those carrying on their person, open... concealed... whatever while in a vehicle and NOT having a CCW), and the city attorney will undertake prosecution. You see those fine law enforcement officers and city prosecutors (and probably the city fathers as well,) in North Las Vegas have no respect for your constitutional right to open carry... in your own vehicle anyway. They'll attempt enforcement of their little city ordinance no matter the circumstance and from what I've gathered there is NO move afoot to "yank" the ordinance. Oh, and please don't "inform" me that the ordinance has been preempted because of the latest legislative effort and bill passage... and therefore NLV is "in the wrong." I've had that conversation on this forum before. That "defense," if you find yourself "in trouble" with NLV over this dangerous weapon in vehicle thing won't do you much good. If you would like to hear about a much better "defense" let me know. My son was arrested for a violation of that city ordinance back in May of last year... he was OCing in his car in NLV and was the subject of a traffic stop. Once the cop determined he had a weapon on his hip, it was all over... he was arrested and jailed and his car impounded. Although the city attorney took that weapon in vehicle charge all the way through a 6 hour trial, just before findings and sentencing was to be announced by the judge, a request for dismissal by the prosecution was granted by the judge. If you want ALL the details, just let me know.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    From what I have read, NLV's definition of a deadly weapon specifically does not include handguns, possibly all firearms, because they knew they were preempted.

    I really need to find that and print it out so I'm not looking for it every time. I'll bet someone has it handy, though.

    However, I am certainly not disagreeing with you. As I stated, NLV has a history of contempt for state law and citizens' rights. I maintain that having your gun unloaded will not make a significant difference in the "ride" that you will experience if they choose to go "NLV" on you...
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    From what I have read, NLV's definition of a deadly weapon specifically does not include handguns, possibly all firearms, because they knew they were preempted.
    Nope... North Las Vegas Municipal Ordinance 9.32.040 defines “dangerous or deadly weapons.” That ordinance sets forth and describes a number of items that are considered “dangerous or deadly weapons” by the City of North Las Vegas, a firearm being one. However, the ordinance excludes certain firearms from its definition. It says: “The term ‘dangerous or deadly weapons’ includes… any firearm other than (emphasis added) (a) one carried pursuant to a valid permit, issued by a duly authorized government authority, or (b) an ordinary rifle or shotgun lawfully carried for purposes of hunting or other lawful sport.” So, the ordinance excludes from its definition of “dangerous or deadly weapons,” a firearm carried “pursuant to a valid permit, issued by a duly authorized government authority.”

    So, let's take that a few steps further, shall we?

    The provision of that exclusion within the ordinance creates a safe harbor for those who have valid permission to carry a firearm concealed (emphasis added) on their person as well as (emphasis added) those who have valid permission to carry a firearm openly (emphasis added) on their person. It, in effect, eliminates any liability under the law with respect to North Las Vegas Municipal Ordinance 9.32.080 – possession of dangerous or deadly weapon in a vehicle - for those two categories of lawful firearm possession.


    Does someone open carrying in their car in North Las Vegas have “a valid permit, issued by a duly authorized government authority?” In a word, yes. The Nevada State Constitution, Article 1, Section 11, Subsection 1, affords the right to its citizens “to keep and bear arms for security and defense, for lawful hunting and recreational use and for other lawful purposes.” Does not Article 1, Section 11, Subsection 1 of the Nevada Constitution afford the right, or in effect, permit (emphasis added) its citizens to “bear arms,” even those driving their vehicles within the confines of the city limits of the City of North Las Vegas; and is not the State Constitution the supreme law of the state and therefore inherently a “duly authorized government authority?”Openly carrying a registered handgun (Clark County registration requirement) in a vehicle in North Las Vegas is lawful because it is done with “a valid permit, issued by a duly authorized government authority,” and in doing such the handgun so carried falls under the exclusion of the City’s own ordinance that defines what a “dangerous or deadly weapon” is NOT.


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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Yet another reason not to consent to a search or talk to LE. Why ask for trouble?

  7. #7
    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Yet another reason not to consent to a search or talk to LE. Why ask for trouble?
    What? Consent to what search? No one consented to anything. It was a traffic stop. No search was attempted or consented to. Maybe you would like to have the cop say you were reaching for a gun (when in effect, you were reaching for your wallet to pull out your registration, DL, and Insurance) when he pulled his and shot you between the eyes?

    Of course one should never CONSENT to a search and the less talking to LEO the better.

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    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Wow. calm down. I realize this whole episode was a travesty of justice, butMy statement was not intended to be in direct relation to your son's experience. It was meant to illustrate that the less said or involved you become the better.
    Last edited by swinokur; 02-22-2012 at 06:01 PM.

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    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    Wow. calm down. I realize this whole episode was a travesty of justice, butMy statement was not intended to be in direct relation to your son's experience. It was meant to illustrate that the less said or involved you become the better.
    Wow? Really? I am and always am, "calm." You didn't see me put my reply in all caps, did you? And... a "travesty of justice" was avoided in my son's case. The charge was dismissed... albeit he did spend the night in jail and had his vehicle impounded. But because he and several others of us got "involved" and didn't just accept what NLV was dishing out, their ordinance was challenged and for all intents and purposes was rendered moot... of course, until the next time... because they ain't gonna stop.

  10. #10
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    All caps is not the only indication of someone being upset, although you have a right to be. My point is when dealing with cops, don't do or offer anything beyond what the law requires.

    Glad it worked out..this time as you pointed out

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    That "defense," if you find yourself "in trouble" with NLV over this dangerous weapon in vehicle thing won't do you much good.
    I have a valid question I think.

    I have a Jeep CJ8 and I have these ammo boxes mounted in the bed. IF I ever drive it into NLV, and IF I lock said weapon in one of these boxes; does that constitue in the vehicle since it techniaclly is a two seater. I don't think so but NLV cops might


    Thanks,
    Jim




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    Technically, according to NLV municipal code, a permit is not good enough either in NLV, unless it was issued by the chief of police:
    9.32.010 - Concealed weapon prohibited—Allowed with permit.

    No person, except a peace officer, shall wear or in any manner carry concealed upon his person any loaded or unloaded gun, pistol or revolver, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon permitted to be carried by law without having, at the same time, actually in his possession, and upon his person, an unexpired permit to do so issued by the chief of police.
    http://www.cityofnorthlasvegas.com/d...lCodeBook.shtm

    I find the government corruption in that city to be abhorrent.

    So I guess, if state preemption is no defense until the appeals, you better ask Joseph Chronister for permission to carry.
    http://www.cityofnorthlasvegas.com/d...ice/police.sht
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 04-24-2012 at 01:17 PM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    Technically, according to NLV municipal code, a permit is not good enough either in NLV, unless it was issued by the chief of police:

    http://www.cityofnorthlasvegas.com/d...lCodeBook.shtm

    I find the government corruption in that city to be abhorrent.

    So I guess, if state preemption is no defense until the appeals, you better ask Joseph Chronister for permission to carry.
    http://www.cityofnorthlasvegas.com/d...ice/police.sht
    OPEN CARRY.... remember ??? No "permission" required.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    OPEN CARRY.... remember ??? No "permission" required.
    I think we all agree to that-it is the hassle to go through with it and that is why they are hassling every one so they will roll over and quit.


    I have a question for the group in Vegas area.

    Why don't a group of you petition the supreme court (I did put the comments on NFAC's web site, but no reply).

    It seems to me/reading the posts that you have enough evidence to do that (I'm not up on all the laws/how to petition the Supreme Court etc) and they the SCourt will find in your favor.

    But I see whereas it might not be addressed since when it goes to appeal-it is dismissed.

    Catch 22 I guess.

    VOTE the sheriff out!! IF you can.

    This is ridiculous what you all have to go through down under

    UnBelievable

  15. #15
    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollbar View Post
    I think we all agree to that-it is the hassle to go through with it and that is why they are hassling every one so they will roll over and quit.
    Just curious... how many out there OPEN CARRY but have a CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT? And... is the OPEN CARRY simply done as a 2A thing... that is as an exercise of a right thing... or is it really done for self-protection?... just as I assume CONCEAL CARRY is. I "assume" because I don't have a PERMIT to CONCEAL and all my carrying is done OPEN... as is my wife, son, and daughter-in-law.

    As for "hassling," I run into more "inquisitoring"... and I guess that could be termed "hassling." My wife likes to call it "educating the masses."

    Hey... I don't OC all the time. There are days I just don't feel like it... kinda like days I don't feel like riding my motorcycle. It's just a mental state kinda thing.

    Anyway, like I said... I was just curious about those who have CCW's and do still OC at times... their reasoning for doing so... and perhaps if there was no CCW, would they still OC?
    Last edited by usmcmustang; 04-24-2012 at 05:09 PM.

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    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    I am about to turn in my paper work for CCW...why did I want a CCW........school zones, not worrying about a jacket covering it etc. I like to OC and do most every time I go out. I carry because I enjoy guns, and for self protection (I use to work at a maximum security prison and the stories...) and people ask question and are more generally nice to you. People give way and smile.

    As for the hassle-I meant from the cops.

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    I have a CCW permit and Open Carry.

    I Open Carry because:
    1. It makes my firearm more accessible for self defense. I’m not concerned with becoming the bad guys target. He better be a better shot and better trained than me.
    2. It is a deterrent. Criminals by nature are lazy and will take the easy path.
    3. It helps bring awareness about Second Amendment rights.

    I have a CCW because:
    1. It makes the Federal Gun Free School Zone a non-issue. Although termed “unenforceable” I don’t want to take the chance, and I hate having to unload and lock up to travel across town, because I may pass through a school zone.
    2. There are places that are “not friendly” to open carry, but don’t mind, or won’t know if you are concealed carry.
    3. I never have to worry about my winter coat covering my firearm.

    I Open Carry probably 90% of the time. 5% I Conceal Carry and the last 5% I No Carry.
    Having the CCW permit gives me more options.
    Hoka hey

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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    OPEN CARRY.... remember ??? No "permission" required.
    I was just contacted by the So NV NVFAC chairman. They are looking for a case. Someone stopped for carry in a vehicle in NLV.
    Last edited by Vegassteve; 05-15-2012 at 01:19 PM.

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    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    I was just contacted by the So NV NVFAC chairman. They are looking for a case. Someone stopped for carry in a vehicle in NLV.
    Well... my son was arrested for open carrying in his vehicle back in May of 2011. He was pulled over by a NLV motor cop for traffic violation(s) and when my son informed the officer that he was open carrying (thought it best to do since he had to reach near his weapon to remove his wallet for ID, etc.), the officer called for backup and ultimately arrested my son, impounded his vehicle, and booked him into jail. Charge of dangerous or deadly weapon in vehicle in violation of NLV Ordinance was taken to court by the NLV City Attorney and evidence was heard... however, in a strange "move" the presiding judge called for "points and authorities" from both plaintiff and defendant AFTER the bench trial was completed but before rendering judgement. After the submission of the points and authorities by both parties, the plaintiff moved to have the charge dropped and the motion was granted by the judge. So, in effect, the dangerous or deadly weapon in vehicle charge was NOT successfully prosecuted.

    Don't know if this is a case worth pursuing. I am relatively confident though that the arrest, impound, and incarceration were the direct result my son having been armed. Without that fact, the traffic violation(s) for which he was pulled over, would not have resulted in such "harsh" treatment.
    Last edited by usmcmustang; 05-15-2012 at 01:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    Well... my son was arrested for open carrying in his vehicle back in May of 2011. He was pulled over by a NLV motor cop for traffic violation(s) and when my son informed the officer that he was open carrying (thought it best to do since he had to reach near his weapon to remove his wallet for ID, etc.), the officer called for backup and ultimately arrested my son, impounded his vehicle, and booked him into jail. Charge of dangerous or deadly weapon in vehicle in violation of NLV Ordinance was taken to court by the NLV City Attorney and evidence was heard... however, in a strange "move" the presiding judge called for "points and authorities" from both plaintiff and defendant AFTER the bench trial was completed but before rendering judgement. After the submission of the points and authorities by both parties, the plaintiff moved to have the charge dropped and the motion was granted by the judge. So, in effect, the dangerous or deadly weapon in vehicle charge was NOT successfully prosecuted.

    Don't know if this is a case worth pursuing. I am relatively confident though that the arrest, impound, and incarceration were the direct result my son having been armed. Without that fact, the traffic violation(s) for which he was pulled over, would not have resulted in such "harsh" treatment.
    Yep knew all that. Thought of you so wanted to see if you want the contact info.

  21. #21
    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    Yep knew all that. Thought of you so wanted to see if you want the contact info.
    Sure.... I'll pass it on to my son.

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    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcmustang View Post
    Well... my son was arrested for open carrying in his vehicle back in May of 2011. He was pulled over by a NLV motor cop for traffic violation(s) and when my son informed the officer that he was open carrying (thought it best to do since he had to reach near his weapon to remove his wallet for ID, etc.), the officer called for backup and ultimately arrested my son, impounded his vehicle, and booked him into jail. Charge of dangerous or deadly weapon in vehicle in violation of NLV Ordinance was taken to court by the NLV City Attorney and evidence was heard... however, in a strange "move" the presiding judge called for "points and authorities" from both plaintiff and defendant AFTER the bench trial was completed but before rendering judgement. After the submission of the points and authorities by both parties, the plaintiff moved to have the charge dropped and the motion was granted by the judge. So, in effect, the dangerous or deadly weapon in vehicle charge was NOT successfully prosecuted.

    Don't know if this is a case worth pursuing. I am relatively confident though that the arrest, impound, and incarceration were the direct result my son having been armed. Without that fact, the traffic violation(s) for which he was pulled over, would not have resulted in such "harsh" treatment.
    When I spoke with Carolyn Herbertson, State Liaison, NRA about this case, she told me that they didn't think it was a good case. She did not elaborate on the reason nor could I get her to expound on it. She just kept telling me that they were looking for a good test case and would move when they found it.

    TBG
    Life member GOA and NRA. Member of SAF, NAGR, TXGR and Cast Bullet Assoc.

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    Nevada Revised Code 268.418(1) Invalidates North Las Vegas Municipal Ordinance 9.32.040.

    Notwithstanding any other Provision of North Las Vegas Municipal Ordinance 9.32.040 to The Contrary, The Provisions of that Ordinance do NOT Apply to, or Effect, The Registration of Firearms which may be Concealed on or about a Person, and, therefore, North Las Vegas Municipal Ordinance CANNOT be Justified under EITHER Exception under Nevada Revised Statute 268.418(2) OR 268.418(3).

    Generally Speaking, Nevada has NO Law Governing The Possession of a Firearm within a Private Passenger Motor Vehicle.
    Last edited by aadvark; 05-15-2012 at 04:34 PM.

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    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Guy View Post
    When I spoke with Carolyn Herbertson, State Liaison, NRA about this case, she told me that they didn't think it was a good case. She did not elaborate on the reason nor could I get her to expound on it. She just kept telling me that they were looking for a good test case and would move when they found it.

    TBG
    Yeah, I remember her. As I recall her name was "Carrie." She showed up for the arraignment and was interested in the case UNTIL she found out my son didn't have a CCW... ?????? Never understood that. I do understand that this was a traffic stop for something NOT related to the firearm my son was open carrying, but it doesn't seem that a "clean" case, that is, one ONLY relating to a firearm in a vehicle, will ever be forthcoming. They'll be waiting a long, long time for that type case.

  25. #25
    Regular Member usmcmustang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    Nevada Revised Code 268.418(1) Invalidates North Las Vegas Municipal Ordinance 9.32.040.

    Notwithstanding any other Provision of North Las Vegas Municipal Ordinance 9.32.040 to The Contrary, The Provisions of that Ordinance do NOT Apply to, or Effect, The Registration of Firearms which may be Concealed on or about a Person, and, therefore, North Las Vegas Municipal Ordinance CANNOT be Justified under EITHER Exception under Nevada Revised Statute 268.418(2) OR 268.418(3).

    Generally Speaking, Nevada has NO Law Governing The Possession of a Firearm within a Private Passenger Motor Vehicle.
    Ah... but if only it were that simple. But... there seems to be just a tad disagreement as to what SB 92 did and did not do to the law with respect to "old" ordinances like the NLV one. Without that "disagreement," there would be no need for a "test case," now would there?

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