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Toy Guns Becoming A Criminal Offense? MI Senator Rick Jones (R) proposes

H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/02/20/toy-guns-becoming-a-criminal-offense/
State Senate Republican Rick Jones said that this has become a major problem, especially within the gang community. “People are taking imitation firearms that look real, cutting off the orange end and then threatening people,” he said.

Supporters of the proposed legislation have also cited a recent case where a police officer was forced to shoot a gang member who was aiming a toy gun without its required markings. Jones believes this proposal will be vital in preventing incidents such as this from occurring in the future.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
I have contacted the legislature about this. Thanks for posting.

Email as follows. Its time we start telling them that we are running out of patience.

It has just come to my attention that you have the time and the mindset to work on toy gun control legislation by making it a crime to take the orange tips out of cap guns, while important issues like eliminating gun free zones sit in a file box somewhere. Gun owners gave our side the majority last term, and we expect to see some results. Nothing is being done of any real value, laws are still keeping law abiding citizens from carrying guns in their private vehicles, laws like strengthening preemption are not even being discussed, and people are still getting their CPLs yanked without due process on unrelated issues like reckless driving. Gun owners are frankly getting fed up with this inept legislature, and we vote.
 
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Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
Why

More silly legislation on my opinion. If a gang banger pulls a real gun, or toy made to look real, they should expect to be met with resistance moving at terminal velocity :eek: So again, where's the issue here? Just saying.....

[video=youtube;F1Bhl3yjzsQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1Bhl3yjzsQ&feature=relmfu[/video]
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
There apparently is a Grand Rapids area city that has a law on the books that one can't carry a "facsimile" firearm openly.
A few years ago, a few local "YouTubers" were making a video in Grandville, which had them walking around town with some air-soft rifles. They were eventually cited and convicted. What I find interesting is that I can walk around in Grandville with a real firearm and the city PD can't do anything. But God forbid I walk around with a toy on my hip... then I'd be in REAL trouble. :banghead:

Here's the only cite I could find (I did read later they were convicted)

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=101114
 
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Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
There apparently is a Grand Rapids area city that has a law on the books that one can't carry a "facsimile" firearm openly.
A few years ago, a few local "YouTubers" were making a video in Grandville, which had them walking around town with some air-soft rifles. They were eventually cited and convicted. What I find interesting is that I can walk around in Grandville with a real firearm and the city PD can't do anything. But God forbid I walk around with a toy on my hip... then I'd be in REAL trouble. :banghead:

Here's the only cite I could find (I did read later they were convicted)

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=101114

Taylor has one on the books (as do many cities near Detroit)
http://semiairsoft.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=840&page=1#9976
after some teenagers "played a game" of running through the parking lot of Southland Mall chasing one another with their soft air pistols drawn :( To my knowledge theirs still had the orange tips on them but they made many non - gun types flip out in fear none the less.

No fixing stupid....
 
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DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
Taylor has one on the books (as do many cities near Detroit)
http://semiairsoft.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=840&page=1#9976
after some teenagers "played a game" of running through the parking lot of Southland Mall chasing one another with their soft air pistols drawn :( To my knowledge theirs still had the orange tips on them but they made many non - gun types flip out in fear none the less.

No fixing stupid....

So, if you show up to the "game" with a real gun... do you "win"?
 

Ezerharden

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
723
Location
Erie, MI
For myself I play airsoft and love it however all my airsoft guns are properly marked and we only play on private property with the owners written permission. I agree if some stupid gang banger wants to point a toy gun at a police officer then he is doing the gene pool a favor by being shot. That is even dumber than bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I agree with Stainless though that there are bigger issues they should be considering than legislating toy guns.
 

PALO

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Messages
729
Location
Kent
For myself I play airsoft and love it however all my airsoft guns are properly marked and we only play on private property with the owners written permission. I agree if some stupid gang banger wants to point a toy gun at a police officer then he is doing the gene pool a favor by being shot. That is even dumber than bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I agree with Stainless though that there are bigger issues they should be considering than legislating toy guns.

kneejerk, and especially kneejerk "for the children" legislation always leaves me pissed off

that being said, there is another scenario that has happened that nobody mentions

criminals painting REAL guns with orange tips so LEO's etc. will hesitate when they see them... and THAT is also a concern

iow, person presents fake gun that looks real they run real risk of getting perforated. thats bad

person presents real gun that is modified to look fake, they run real chance of getting a cop or any llawful carrier defending self or others to decide NOT to shoot and gives them a substantial tactical advantage

that's bad too

fwiw, i've been dispatched to a few incidents involving kids with what turn out to be airsoft guns, but where the callers etc. are hysterical about kids with guns. usually, it's at least somewhat obvious (dressed in camo, dropped off by soccer mom or whatever), but still what it really comes down to - is people exercising a little common sense

fwiw, some of these guns look very real. we had a pedestrian call in a handgun dumped in a ditch by the side of the road. when my partner got there, the guy was pointing to the gun just a few feet away. it was an airsoft. but even sitting there looking at it STATIC (iow not being waved in somebody's hand at a distance), he thought it was real

obviously, it would be profoundly unethical for any gun manufacturer to make a real gun that LOOKS like a replica (orange tip etc.) and legislation aside, when and if a tragedy ensued, that's one of the few gun industry lawsuit cases i could imagine i would support


i've seen bangers who carry airsoft guns (and.or had them concealed in their car etc.) and even admit they use them for "protection" since they are convicted felons, so they figure they are "safe"

well, whatever.

obviously, under the RCW, its still a crime to present them in a manner, and especially during the commission of a violent felony, such that they appear to be a legitimate gun

iow, rob a bank with an airsoft gun and it's still armed robbery. the actual firearms enhancement statutes require a serviceable firearm, but the laws regarding "armed robbery" only require the person REASONABLY perceived it as a firearm which a person would
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
kneejerk, and especially kneejerk "for the children" legislation always leaves me pissed off

that being said, there is another scenario that has happened that nobody mentions

criminals painting REAL guns with orange tips so LEO's etc. will hesitate when they see them... and THAT is also a concern

iow, person presents fake gun that looks real they run real risk of getting perforated. thats bad

person presents real gun that is modified to look fake, they run real chance of getting a cop or any llawful carrier defending self or others to decide NOT to shoot and gives them a substantial tactical advantage

that's bad too

fwiw, i've been dispatched to a few incidents involving kids with what turn out to be airsoft guns, but where the callers etc. are hysterical about kids with guns. usually, it's at least somewhat obvious (dressed in camo, dropped off by soccer mom or whatever), but still what it really comes down to - is people exercising a little common sense

fwiw, some of these guns look very real. we had a pedestrian call in a handgun dumped in a ditch by the side of the road. when my partner got there, the guy was pointing to the gun just a few feet away. it was an airsoft. but even sitting there looking at it STATIC (iow not being waved in somebody's hand at a distance), he thought it was real

obviously, it would be profoundly unethical for any gun manufacturer to make a real gun that LOOKS like a replica (orange tip etc.) and legislation aside, when and if a tragedy ensued, that's one of the few gun industry lawsuit cases i could imagine i would support


i've seen bangers who carry airsoft guns (and.or had them concealed in their car etc.) and even admit they use them for "protection" since they are convicted felons, so they figure they are "safe"

well, whatever.

obviously, under the RCW, its still a crime to present them in a manner, and especially during the commission of a violent felony, such that they appear to be a legitimate gun

iow, rob a bank with an airsoft gun and it's still armed robbery. the actual firearms enhancement statutes require a serviceable firearm, but the laws regarding "armed robbery" only require the person REASONABLY perceived it as a firearm which a person would

MOC leadership is already on this.
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
Maybe someone can post a link to our lobbying list so the OP can sign up for it and stay informed and take action in the future?
 

TheQ

Regular Member
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Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
http://eepurl.com/hJzk-/ -- this is for the OP. consider following this link to sign up for our legislative action email list.

The topic of this thread was the subject if an email that went out last week.

The list is free, open to the public, and you can unsubscribe at any time. We will never sell your personal information.
 
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Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
Maybe someone can post a link to our lobbying list so the OP can sign up for it and stay informed and take action in the future?

The OP is from Wisconsin, was banned and has returned under the new name. Many miss Doug's old style of posting.
 
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qqq1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
80
Location
Saginaw, Michigan, USA
I was not signed up for, or aware of, the legislative action email list. I signed up now but who exactly should I try to be contacting about this issue? Rick Jones? Everyone? Anyone?
 
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