Young Girl shot at school

XD45PlusP said:

According to the Seattle times our favorite senator Adam Kline will supposedly introduce legislation next year

"In Olympia, the Seattle Democrat who chairs the state Senate Judiciary Committee said there is a lapse in state law. "We do not hold people very accountable in this state for leaving guns around the house with small children," Sen. Adam Kline said.

Kline said that he would consider a bill to address it during the next legislative session next year, but didn't sound hopeful of its chances."

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017573653_apuswashingtonschoolshooting.html

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Spoken like a true Californian.

edited to add: he's from NYC http://www.adamkline.org/about/ my mistake, of course functionally equivalent.

gogodawgs said:

No the parents are responsible. No the parents have complete and utter control when it comes to raising their children at 9 years of age.

Shame on you for not holding the parents 100% accountable. No it can not happen to any of us, false. You are looking for the easy way out.

The parents at some point and every point have shirked their responsibility in raising a child into our society and teaching that child responsibility. Don't you dare try to let them off the hook.

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Yes the parents are responsible (or in this case irresponsible). The great news is that they can be sued by the victim's family civil court.

WA does not need a mandatory 'lock up your gun' law. You can't legislate responsibility. All you can do is manufacture more criminals, which only profits the police and prison guard unions (as well as lawyers).

gogodawgs said:

2. 17 and 19 and both excellent with firearms. I have been a founding PTA president when they were in elementary school. I have been a high school basketball official for 20 years. I have coached youth basketball in the past as well. I have been around 100s of kids and their parents and kids represent their parents values.

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I think your too busy patting yourself on the back to realize that you are blinded by your good luck. I've worked with at risk youth programs starting with AFDC (that'll date me). I've seen hundreds of families that have seemingly done all the right things end up with all kinds of problems. Its not just the poor kids from the broken homes with uninvolved parents that end up pregnant, on drugs, or worse - and it just doesn't happen when they're kids. I've seen the families with kids that did fine until they got to and out of college. You never know what will cause it or when, but sometimes a switch just flips.

Enjoy your good luck. It doesn't always last.

New Daddy said:

I think your too busy patting yourself on the back to realize that you are blinded by your good luck. I've worked with at risk youth programs starting with AFDC (that'll date me). I've seen hundreds of families that have seemingly done all the right things end up with all kinds of problems. Its not just the poor kids from the broken homes with uninvolved parents that end up pregnant, on drugs, or worse - and it just doesn't happen when they're kids. I've seen the families with kids that did fine until they got to and out of college. You never know what will cause it or when, but sometimes a switch just flips.

Enjoy your good luck. It doesn't always last.

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You call it good luck. I do not, it was years of hard work and sacrifice, by me, my wife, my parents, her parents, her siblings, my siblings, god parents, etc...

Dave_pro2a said:

Yes the parents are responsible (or in this case irresponsible). The great news is that they can be sued by the victim's family civil court.

WA does not need a mandatory 'lock up your gun' law. You can't legislate responsibility. All you can do is manufacture more criminals, which only profits the police and prison guard unions (as well as lawyers).

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Correct the parents are irresponsible and should be held civilly responsible for damages. I have not and will not ever ask for legislation for safe's or locking up firearms. It is a phony approach.

Illogical

New Daddy said:

I think your too busy patting yourself on the back to realize that you are blinded by your good luck. I've worked with at risk youth programs starting with AFDC (that'll date me). I've seen hundreds of families that have seemingly done all the right things end up with all kinds of problems. Its not just the poor kids from the broken homes with uninvolved parents that end up pregnant, on drugs, or worse - and it just doesn't happen when they're kids. I've seen the families with kids that did fine until they got to and out of college. You never know what will cause it or when, but sometimes a switch just flips.

Enjoy your good luck. It doesn't always last.

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Luck has nothing to do with it, rather I would submit it has more to do with instilling strong guiding principals and values; then backing the same with examples.

By the logic presented above, Mr. Kline should be allowed to protect us from ourselves by instituting more laws that intrude into our private homes or make it illegaller to illegally posses a firearm.

New Daddy said:

I think your too busy patting yourself on the back to realize that you are blinded by your good luck. I've worked with at risk youth programs starting with AFDC (that'll date me). I've seen hundreds of families that have seemingly done all the right things end up with all kinds of problems. Its not just the poor kids from the broken homes with uninvolved parents that end up pregnant, on drugs, or worse - and it just doesn't happen when they're kids. I've seen the families with kids that did fine until they got to and out of college. You never know what will cause it or when, but sometimes a switch just flips.

Enjoy your good luck. It doesn't always last.

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The boy has had a tumultuous life, with troubled parents, adoption, a death and now a guardianship.

When he was 2 ½, police found methamphetamine and syringes in his mother's belongings, court documents say. Later that same month, Chaffin was charged with forgery after trying to cash stolen checks. She was later convicted.When he was 3 ½, Chaffin was charged with selling marijuana out of a Kitsap motel. By this point, she had four children, according to court records. Meanwhile, Jason Cochran was convicted of domestic violence for assaulting Chaffin. He later violated the protection order. He repeatedly failed to pay child support and was held in contempt.Three or four years ago, they both relinquished their parental rights, his uncle Patrick Cochran and court records said. The boy and two siblings were adopted by their paternal grandmother.​

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sawah said:

H&K .45 users. Is it credible that slamming the backpack on the desk could make the gun 'go off'. What kind of safety is being used.

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Safety's only work when they're "On". According to news releases it was cocked and the safety was off.

As I am reading more I see "Mom" as guilty of being a "felon in possession" and the "Boyfriend" as guilty of providing a firearm to a felon by not locking it up and removing it from her control (actual or constructive).

As for the "Parenting", it can only go so far. How would you explain a circumstance that I know well where both kids were given equal, intensive, care and attention. All the usual from school participation to sports involvement. One kid was an honor student and is now excelling in his Army Career. The other, his brother, is recovering from substance abuse and has yet to hold a job for more than a few weeks. Same parents, same attention and care, different results. I tend to agree with New Daddy. There is a luck factor. After 4 kids and a whole flock of grandkids I can attest that it isn't always a matter of "Good Parenting".

BTW GoGo, just wait until your kids are in their 30's and 40's. You'll be amazed at what they'll admit to doing back when they were teens that you had no clue was going on. Call it the voice of experience that you haven't had yet.

I am simply amazed that the girl survived the initial shot with a .45. That is a pretty large round for an 8 year old to take into the abdomen at near point blank range.

I am hoping she survives the surgeries and probable complications that can attend major surgeries. She is going to have a very long recovery. Very sad.

I have some pretty serious feelings about the parents too, but nothing that hasn't already been said.

gogodawgs said:

That is not luck, that is a fundamental lack of parenting.[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

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And I would agree. However, the specific example does not prove your generalized statement. For example, you said that you coached sports. There have been many coaches convicted of child molestation and embezzlement. Does that make all coaches child molesters and embezzlers? No - and neither does the actions of one set of failed parents apply to all kids who do bad things.

I've seen many sets of parents who thought they raised well-rounded, balanced kids find out the hard way that the kids weren't. I hope it doesn't happen to you.

gogodawgs said:

You call it good luck. I do not, it was years of hard work and sacrifice, by me, my wife, my parents, her parents, her siblings, my siblings, god parents, etc...

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This.

You can call it luck new daddy but I agree with gogo, luck has nothing to do with it. Sometimes parents don't care enough, unfortunately somtimes they may just not know how. But in the same respect that I open carry now and firearms are a part of everyday life, guns were a part of everyday life when I was a child the same as many other things. They weren't shunned or hidden away and as a result I was not anymore curious about them then normal. I knew what they were, what they did and where they were in our household just as I knew where the lawnmower was because they were both normal tools.... Feel free to dissect that

Hardbuck90 said:

This.

You can call it luck new daddy but I agree with gogo, luck has nothing to do with it. Sometimes parents don't care enough, unfortunately somtimes they may just not know how. But in the same respect that I open carry now and firearms are a part of everyday life, guns were a part of everyday life when I was a child the same as many other things. They weren't shunned or hidden away and as a result I was not anymore curious about them then normal. I knew what they were, what they did and where they were in our household just as I knew where the lawnmower was because they were both normal tools.... Feel free to dissect that

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Although I agree that luck has nothing to do with it. Not all kids will turn out great no matter the parenting. I like how one older gentleman told me years ago, when people are quick to judge parents, "Look at the other kids, if they are all bad it's the parents, if it's just one kid, it's the kid".

Appeals Court allows case to proceed against the owner of the firearm,

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2013/...-of-gun-in-armin-jahr-shooting/#axzz2Mu6T1kQ1

I am still of the opinion that this is a civil tort, not a criminal act, your mileage may vary.

hermannr said:

Let's first consider "extensive criminal backgrounds"?

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Well, if your starting position is that only criminals would own a gun, then someone whose family has owned guns for generations would translate into an extensive criminal background.

I personally know Amina and her family. I was just talking about her a few days ago with a close friend and they told me she's doing better! Still no good news for the young boy, however...

Vitaeus said:

Appeals Court allows case to proceed against the owner of the firearm,

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2013/...-of-gun-in-armin-jahr-shooting/#axzz2Mu6T1kQ1

I am still of the opinion that this is a civil tort, not a criminal act, your mileage may vary.

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Yet the law still states that this negligence rises to the level of assault. The ruling, IMHO, was right. It's up to a jury to decide if this person is guilty of violating the law.

Too bad they can't also charge with stupidity.

Don't worry, you'll get to see a civil suit out of this. That's next.

amlevin said:

Yet the law still states that this negligence rises to the level of assault. The ruling, IMHO, was right. It's up to a jury to decide if this person is guilty of violating the law.

Too bad they can't also charge with stupidity.

Don't worry, you'll get to see a civil suit out of this. That's next.

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In other words, leave your car keys on the dresser and your child takes them and goes joy riding and along the way he hits and injures someone. You say that that rises to the level of criminal negligence? Hand the kid the loaded firearm, maybe that rises to criminal levels.

Yeah well this is bad, I used to like Doug when he was a transit driver. Still leaving accessible guns when his girlfriend was a felon and her kid no angel either...... He did bring this on himself. How to avoid being railroaded, criminal history checks on who you're sleeping with are your friend

Vitaeus said:

In other words, leave your car keys on the dresser and your child takes them and goes joy riding and along the way he hits and injures someone. You say that that rises to the level of criminal negligence? Hand the kid the loaded firearm, maybe that rises to criminal levels.

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+1

English Common law our legal system is founded on....Victim, Actus reus, mens rea........our current system "someone has to go to jail".

“We have concluded that this case may be tried,” the majority judges wrote. “We are told that this decision will open the floodgates to charges against innocent parents for the unanticipated criminal acts of their children where the parents’ only fault was in failing to totally secure an item that could potentially be dangerous. We do not anticipate such a flood.”

The judges said courts would be able to discern the difference between allowing a child access to “a butcher knife,” for example, and a “hand grenade.” The viability of such cases would be evaluated on whether the parents’ actions were “at least a gross deviation from a normally careful person’s conduct,” the judges wrote.

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These nitwit judges are only focused on the gun in this case.

The state of WA should prepare for a flood. The sad truth is that the last bastion of common sense resides with the state supreme court.