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Thread: Hello there! I'm the new guy!

  1. #1
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    Hello there! I'm the new guy!

    Well, as im sure most of you guessed by the title. I'm new here.

    I'm in my early twenty's living in the south end of Colorado springs, which frankly isn't the best side of town. I've been noticing crime seems to be moving closer and closer to home. i guess the "don't @#&7 where you eat" mindset doesn't seem to apply to the riff raff i graduated high school with. Anyhow.

    I've spent a decent amount of time doing my homework on local carry laws. and i open carry when i walk my dog when its dark out. but i've developed a bit of "fear" mabye? towards open carrying during the day. My personal concern is law enforcement and just the general attitude towards open carrying from regular folks.

    I'm a law abiding citizen, i work my rear end off at work. heck I'm a licensed Ham radio operator. But i don't want to cause any undue attention to me or my girlfriend. But frankly, good worth while classes for a concealed license are pricey. (I'm extremely confident in my handling of my pistol) And the extra price tag on actually getting the CCW license. 200-300 dollars is out of my current budget.

    I'm curious how many of you may see my particular concerns. I prefer the idea of open carrying, I'm not prey. Having my pistol firmly mounted to my side, without having to worry about snagging my shirt because the breeze put it out of place on the draw.

    Anyhow, i'd appreciate any input.

  2. #2
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Newbie!
    First, permit me to welcome you to our forum. It is chock full of terrific information about open carry.

    That being said, you live in an excellent town where open carry is hardly noticed. You'll find with time that you make a much bigger deal out of it than anybody else. Really. That was my experience. I've carried all over the state, and to several others as well, and nobody makes a fuss about it. The only real fuss about it was my own concerns about what would happen when I started carrying. And in a word, what happened was.....
    Nothing!

    Nobody running for their lives because an armed man walked into an establishment they frequented, no hassle from cops who plainly saw me carrying my sidearm openly, no folks shrinking away as I approached,... nothing. The only fuss existed in my own imagination of what might happen. And mostly, nothing did.

    Oh, I got the occassional question like "Are you a cop or something?" My answer was, and still is, "no. I'm an LAC". They get all quizzical and ask what the heck an LAC is, to which I reply "A Law Abiding Citizen, or if you prefer, a Legally Armed Carrier".

    Once, on a trip out of state, out in a small store just off the interestate while still in Colorado, a woman asked me "Why you carrying a gun mister?" to which I answered "Because there are bad guys everywhere, and my aim is to discourage any miscreancy coming my way!" I don't know if that sounded satisfactory to the woman, but she let it drop at that point.

    I took another newcomer out on a routine day of running errands, and we visited several places around Aurora. Nobody made any fuss about the two of us carrying our pistols in holsters on our hips. One older gentleman asked "are you detectives?". I answered with my usual LAC line. Once I got around to explaining that open carry is legal in Colorado, he seemed content that we were okay.

    Now I'd like to make you a similar offer to what I did for my friend in Aurora. I'm going down to Colorado Springs to host a "Meet and Greet" on Tuesday, the 28th at 6:30pm. We're going to assemble at Famous Dave's for chow and chat. You're certainly welcome to join us. We'll all be carrying open, so you can see how things are by joining up with us. I'm hoping we get maybe a dozen folks to show up and all will be openly carrying. But before that gathering starts, I could come along earlier and we could run around Colorado Springs and visit a few places so you can see how things are. I always open carry. All the time, wherever I go, with the possible exception of Denver. Even then I sometimes let it show!

    So there's a few slices of insight for your consideration.

    Again, welcome to the forum, and I'd be delighted if you'd join us at the Meet and Greet on Tuesday!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  3. #3
    Regular Member MilProGuy's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum!

    Fasten your seatbelt and hang on for the ride!

    You'll have the opportunity here to learn everything you've ever wanted to know about open carry, but were afraid to ask.
    Proud Veteran ~ U.S. Army / Army Reserve

    Mississippi State Guard ~ Honorably Retired


  4. #4
    Regular Member alang's Avatar
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    Welcome! I'm still fairly new to this forum myself, but I'm sure you'll find that there is a great wealth of information and experience here. The "Meet & Greet" that M-Taliesin welcomed you to join would be an excellent way to test the waters with a group of like minded people. You'll be in an atmosphere that will put you at ease about carrying.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    To build on what others have said, this forum is a great place to learn. Read other states stories too. Like others have said, alot of the "stigma" is in your mind. It's a little scarey to try anything new. Think of it as carrying a briefcase for work. Some people will look at it like it's odd for a young fellow to have a brief case, but others won't even notice. It's just a piece of equipment that is used for work. Learn how to deal with the interactions that could come up. Like M-T said, some people will ask questions out of curiousity, others are plain and simple anti-gun. Try and learn ways to deal with both. You are young, so you may get someone ask a silly question, and depending on how you are dressed may be a little weird. When you put on the gun, if you put on a smile, and good manners, you should do fine.
    The 28 Feb meet and greet will be a great thing for a newbie. Some "old hands" to help get through the initial weird feeling. It will get easier, It will become just like putting on a hat...
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

  6. #6
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Dawg View Post
    It will get easier, It will become just like putting on a hat...
    Howdy Again!
    After awhile, I got to feeling naked without my sidearm. It is part of getting dressed, like putting on my pants, I put on my pistol.

    In fact, I once got in serious trouble at a 7-11. You may recall signs that said "No shirt, no shoes, no service!" Well, I showed up without pants. For reasons I cannot understand, they had issues. I never had that sort of hostile reaction because I wore a pistol, just when I forgot my britches! And that was long before I started carrying!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pheone View Post
    Well, as im sure most of you guessed by the title. I'm new here.
    Welcome! And yes, definitely come to the Meet and Greet.

    ...i've developed a bit of "fear" mabye? towards open carrying during the day. My personal concern is law enforcement and just the general attitude towards open carrying from regular folks.
    Although I've been CC for more than two decades, I had some serious reservations about OC, and didn't do it until after I'd been on this site for a month or two. Even then, it took me several months before I realized most people really don't care. The very few who do are mostly just curious. The three that voiced any genuine concern were either out of state or merely ignorant.

    But frankly, good worth while classes for a concealed license are pricey. (I'm extremely confident in my handling of my pistol) And the extra price tag on actually getting the CCW license. 200-300 dollars is out of my current budget.
    It's $100 for a decent class and $147 for the El Paso County CHP, but you can find a cheap class for $50, toss a lot of what they tell you out the window after you obtain the paper, and find a better education here. Feel free to ask questions! We enjoy answering them and providing links or quotes from local, state, and federal law.

    If you're short on cash, budget and save up for it. It helps to divide the cost of the CHP by its 5-year period. At $247, that comes to $4.12 a month. If you want to save for it over one year, budget for $20.59 a month.

    I'm curious how many of you may see my particular concerns. I prefer the idea of open carrying, I'm not prey. Having my pistol firmly mounted to my side, without having to worry about snagging my shirt because the breeze put it out of place on the draw.
    Let's see: Deterrence... Check! Ease of accessibility... Check!

    Hope to see you at the Meet and Greet!
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  8. #8
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    I very much appreciate all of your input, it helps bring a level of confidence to the whole thing.

    It sounds like the majority of my concerns are all in my head. i guess i just figured being a younger guy i'd be a bigger target for calls to the police. Granted i can't imagine many criminals walking around OC'ing.

    I'll see what i can do to join ya'll at famous daves on Tuesday. Unfortunately weekdays for me this time of year are rather hectic. It's my busy season at work, so i may have to wait for a meet and greet closer to summer time. But i'll see what i can do.

    Out of curiosity does anyone else carry a full sized pistol? The one person i'd met who was open carrying before was carrying a smaller pistol in a holster that you could hardly even notice past his cell phone holder and his work radio. The only reason i even noticed was because he pulled his cell phone out to check the time. I'm just more confident in my handling my 1911, than something smaller. Any suggestions to keep it tight to the body? it pulls out enough to stuff my coat between the handle and my body. but a good strech can pull my coat out, so mabye some idea on pulling tighter to my body would help.

    Yea 20 bucks a month isn't bad, thats what i put into my retirement. Could call it 20 extra bucks to make sure i get to retirement. haha. I've had some unfortunate issues with my jeep, and im trying to buy a house while the market is still good. And the main problem i have with some of the classes lack of lawyer, and/or lack of range time. There is always something to be learned at the range, and a lawyer who's handled self defence cases would be a valuable person to learn from.


    Sorry for the choppy-ness of this, i couldn't figure out how to quote. first forum i've been on since i was 10.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    Sorry, by the way, WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!

    Yes, you will find that the MAJORITY of us open carry a full sized handgun. Some of us have a smaller bug, but I carry a taurus 66, .357 with 4 inch barrel, and a "thug gun" Hi-point .40 with 4(ish) inch barrel.
    I find that I am more accurate,and quicker on target with a longer barrel, better sight picture. Helps with some weight in those two guns. Carry what you like, because you will practice with it. That is a big key. Practice, practice pratice... Quadruple check to be sure it's empty, and practice in the house with draws, and scenarios, and keep up Situational Awareness. As we say in the Navy, "Head on a swivel".
    As for the holster, make sure it is comfortable, and has rentention. If it is open carried, comfort and accessability are more important than close to the body. I use a El Paso Saddlery holster for the 357, that is fairly small, and looks like has no retention, but is tight at the right places, and it near immpossible to take from me. Also, practice retention training. There are videos if you are short of cash for "classroom" training. Take up guys Like M-T on an outing, and they will also show you some of the tricks of the trade. Jamming your hand down hard and spinning is a good place to start. Get used to the trained muscle movements.

    Yeah, sorry, rambled, but I believe in what we are doing, and everything I have said was learned from this forum, in one state or the other.

    We in the VA state forum are pretty active discussers, like you guys here are, you will learn alot from them too.

    Scott
    The Second Amendment is in place
    in case the politicians ignore the others

    A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone

  10. #10
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    "Does anyone carry a full sized pistol?"

    Most days I carry a compact Glock, they are smaller than full size but not by much. There are also quite a few days that I carry my Barretta 96. I think that one is even bigger than your 1911. Neither of them get noticed as much as I think they should. Again, it's mostly in your own head. Even with that big ol' Barretta; I 've had conversations with people for 20 minutes and out of nowhere thier demeanor changes...I know that means they have just seen it, after 20 minutes of being right next to it with it in plain sight. People see what they expect to see, and most of them do not expect to see a handgun.

    "...the main problem i have with some of the classes lack of lawyer, and/or lack of range time. There is always something to be learned at the range, and a lawyer who's handled self defence cases would be a valuable person to learn from."

    I agree. I'm an instructor. I think any class that doesn't include going to the range is negligent or at least is sincerely lacking. There are some great things to learn from experienced lawyers, but if you think the class is too expensive now, add in an experienced lawyer and see what happens to that price.

    There are a lot of people here on the forum that have a lot of experience in the field in one manner or another. Feel free to post questions here and most will reply with great responses.

  11. #11
    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    For a class I highly recommend Paradise Sales, with one caveat -- years ago they used to have a criminal attorney speak to the class -- make sure they still do. Classes run $135.

    Paradise Sales has a huge cadre of volunteer instructors that make sure all your gun handling is done typically with one-on-one instruction. Very few other classes offer that level of coaching (not to say they’re not others out there, just not many!)

    O2

    Ps. For full disclosure I used to be one of those volunteer instructors and hope to be one again when I get the time to spare! Other than the gratification of getting many, many people off to a good start shooting, I receive/received no compensation from Paradise Sales.
    Last edited by O2HeN2; 02-23-2012 at 12:04 PM.

  12. #12
    Regular Member PikesPeakMtnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    For a class I highly recommend Paradise Sales, with one caveat -- years ago they used to have a criminal attorney speak to the class -- make sure they still do. Classes run $135.

    Paradise Sales has a huge cadre of volunteer instructors that make sure all your gun handling is done typically with one-on-one instruction. Very few other classes offer that level of coaching (not to say they’re not others out there, just not many!)

    O2

    Ps. For full disclosure I used to be one of those volunteer instructors and hope to be one again when I get the time to spare! Other than the gratification of getting many, many people off to a good start shooting, I receive/received no compensation from Paradise Sales.
    My g/f and I have both attended this class and it really is worth the cost..but it will take up one entire weekend of your time.
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

  13. #13
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    "For a class I highly recommend Paradise Sales, with one caveat -- years ago they used to have a criminal attorney speak to the class -- make sure they still do. Classes run $135."

    Those were the guys i was planning on going too. They were very helpful last time i was in there. And didn't judge the fact that i like Taurus pistols. (I always get annoyed by that) I'm glad to hear some good reviews of they're classes. Helps to solidify what i already felt i knew about them.

    "it's mostly in your own head. Even with that big ol' Barretta; I 've had conversations with people for 20 minutes and out of nowhere their demeanor changes."

    Out of curiosity how do peoples demeanor's change? do they take the defensive? get curious? i doubt many people just turn tail and run away.

    Do many of you carry around the legal information or a 2nd amendment facts sheet? or anything of that nature to try and educate people? or LEO's for that matter?

    I guess that leads me to another question, My girlfriend while being pro-gun has gotten some terrible beliefs put into her head at school. She's learning to become a LEO at PPCC, and her teachers have persuaded her that the idea of open carrying will cause anyone nearby to duck for cover and call the police. Even worse than that is they're taught her that the addition of a gun turns EVERY potential engagement into a gunfight.

    I know better, especially after reading your incident in the safeway parking lot M-T. But they've got her believing the craziest things, She's even said things that "study's have shown that even a 2 year old can recognize a gun, and it increases there aggressive response"

    Of course me and my buddy asked his two year old if she knew what a gun was. She didn't. nor did seeing a gun cause her to break out a kitchen knife and go on a rampage. (It was an airsoft gun btw)

    I just don't know quite how to deal with her in the situation. every time we go for a walk i tell her im going to grab my pistol. she gets noticeably upset. Never trys to stop me, she knows that wouldn't fly. But i want her to be as confident in me carrying as possible. Oh, i guess i should also note. She finds nothing whatsoever to be wrong with CCW.

    Its a difficult battle, that i would very much like to put to rest. Because frankly OC'ing is in my mind a way to show your standing up for your right to protect yourself. Theres a place for CCW. But in my life as it is now, i don't go anywhere or do anything where being concealed should make any difference.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    After awhile, I got to feeling naked without my sidearm. It is part of getting dressed, like putting on my pants, I put on my pistol.
    I've taken to counting to eight. I can't remember all the things that go in my pockets or on my person so I just remember the number 8. In no particular order, phone, keys, wallet, pocketknife, business card cases, office key card, gun, lunch.

  15. #15
    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO! I too have recently joined, and I can tell you firsthand, that there is a lot to know, learn, and read here. Almost all of it is very helpful, and folks who know more than I do, are always happy to chip in an opinion, compliment, suggestion, or factual information, to help you in this Right. Feel free to ask questions, but remember, it is up to you to know the laws of your state. You'll get a feel for the folks who know, and if what you want to know sounds dumb, or if it doesn't fit into a thread, you can always PM someone. Welcome again, and take care.
    Be safe, be prepared, and carry on!

    Alle Ihre Basisstation jetzt zu uns gehören

  16. #16
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    I started OCing 24/7 last summer. Now it feels weird to not have a pistol on my belt. I had many reservations about OCing, especially because I am younger and thought that would affect how people view someone OCing. Occasionally somebody will comment or say something, but they are few and far between. The longest conversation I ever had with somebody about my pistol was a cashier at Sportsmans who insisted I had to check it in. lol. Like JamesB said, you might be talking to somebody for a couple minutes before they notice it. And you can tell with some of them. I was pulling my boat out of a boat launch and chatting with a woman nearby about the fishing for a few minutes before she noticed. All of the sudden she just got 'cold' towards me, shut up and walked away! lol. It really is no big deal, not many people notice anyways.

    As for LEO, don't fret. My buddy and I walked into a diner OCing and there were a few LEOs sitting at a table. never gave use a second look.

    Have fun and stay safe!

  17. #17
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pheone View Post
    and her teachers have persuaded her that the idea of open carrying will cause anyone nearby to duck for cover and call the police. Even worse than that is they're taught her that the addition of a gun turns EVERY potential engagement into a gunfight.
    <Snip>
    I just don't know quite how to deal with her in the situation. every time we go for a walk i tell her im going to grab my pistol. she gets noticeably upset. Never trys to stop me, she knows that wouldn't fly. But i want her to be as confident in me carrying as possible. Oh, i guess i should also note. She finds nothing whatsoever to be wrong with CCW.
    Howdy Again!
    Interesting that her instructors would tell her what you say here; Considering that every street cop carries open. Guess they must be looking to make every interaction with the public turn into a gunfight???? Does that really make any sense whatsoever?

    She needs to understand that her instructors are... what are they called?.... People! And as people, they have their own personal biases and opinions. As such, they preach their personal opinion, even if it is wrong. Even if it is dead wrong! Consider, if you will, that I've carried daily, everyday, everywhere, since shortly after I joined up with this forum. Guess how many gunfights I've had in these many months! You can count them all on the fingers of one hand, without using any fingers!!! And worse, I have yet to see my first person ducking for cover or calling the cops. In fact, I haven't had anybody call the cops yet. Now either her instructors have thier heads up their backside, or the cops do by not responding to all those calls from alarmed citizens complaining about my carry of a pistol!

    Think about it amigo! On this forum are many folks who carry their handguns everywhere, at all times, right on their hip where everybody can see it. How many cop calls do we get, as a collective group? Not too darn many, I can tell you that. And I'm just talking about the Colorado forum. Multiply that by all the other states on the entire OCDO forum? Calls to the police do happen, but are shockingly few and far between. And then consider how many folks here can report alarmed citizens running and ducking for cover. Fewer, and even farther between. Now check around the forum and figure out how many gunfights result from our practice of embracing the 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution, and the Constitution of the State of Colorado, specifically Article 2, sections 3 and 13! Why... if her instructor had anything more rational than an opinion, we'd all be veterans of many shoot-outs, and our membership much smaller because some folks on the forum would come out second best in a gunfight!

    What I'm trying to illustrate here is the nonsense she is being handed, and the very presence of this forum and all the members who open carry every single day, everywhere they go, is iron clad proof that such opinions are nonsense. Her instructors are hosting a fecal festival, and more than happy to share a load of crap with anybody who will believe it without question.

    My wife, my pardner and I all attended Adams County Sheriff's Citizen's Academy. It was one place we most emphatically were prohibited from carrying, either open or concealed. So we didn't. But during the course of 16 weeks, our happy trio heard a great many opinions that we knew were nothing short of BS right on the spot. I won't elaborate here, but we certainly heard some very mistaken information, and unlike some in our class, we knew it for precisely what it was. BS. Don't get me wrong, we learned a great deal of terrific stuff. But peppered throughout those 16 weeks was a healty load of steaming hot, fresh from the oven, done to a turn, pile of crap! Just because they have a star on their chest doesn't mean their report cards were ever festooned with them!

    Common sense will tell you that bad guys aren't in their line of occupation because they are notably courageous. They seek prey, and like any predator, look for the easy mark. Why chase something across the front range when you can pick a victim that can't run. Or, why get into a fight with a critter that is perfectly capable of fighting back. It doesn't work that way in the animal kingdom, and it doesn't work that way with bad guys either. They look for easy marks. They look for prey that won't give them trouble. They look for victims they can overpower with minimal effort. Therefore, the very presence of a pistol openly carried sends the message that you ain't going down without a fight that could prove fatal to your attacker. Not the sort of prey they're looking for. It would require a degree of courage they typically don't have! There are all manner of resources on the web to explain how to avoid becoming a victim, and they all will tell you to avoid looking like a victim to begin with. Open Carry shuts down that particular perspective right on the spot. You might visit the Ruger website, and check their videos. They have some that discuss how to avoid being a victim. And it starts with how the bad guy views you. What's really scary, in terms of her instructors, is they should be the very first to acknowledge precisely what I'm saying here to be true!

    I think that meet and greet would be an excellent opportunity to bring your lady along to see, with her own eyes, and hear with her own ears, the reality from those who openly carry every day. Some of us are ex-military. Some ex-cops. At least one of our number is a current fugitive recovery agent. We get all kinds. But the one thing we have in common is that we open carry all the time, and are still waiting for all those folks ducking for cover, calling the cops or the supposed gunfights we all aren't having.

    If that sounded ludicrious on face value, it is because what she's being told is precisely that.... ludicrous!

    Another reason to come on an outing with me and let's run around to a bunch of different places to see with your own eyes what is true.
    And what is true is... you won't see people ducking for cover, calling the cops, or taking part in gunfights. Reality ain't nearly so exciting as the fanciful flights of fantasy her instructors entertain in their imaginative opinions. But you know what they say about opinions... not unlike something else everone has one of.... everybodys got one. All the matter is what is real.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  18. #18
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    "What I'm trying to illustrate here is the nonsense she is being handed, and the very presence of this forum and all the members who open carry every single day, everywhere they go, is iron clad proof that such opinions are nonsense. Her instructors are hosting a fecal festival, and more than happy to share a load of crap with anybody who will believe it without question. "

    I could not stop laughing when i read that little rant. And i couldn't agree more. Since i won't make the meeting this tuesday, hopefully i'll be able to drag her along with me. One way or another im going to have to get her past these opinions. Because they are Bullhonkey.

    I'll think i'll have her read your post, hopefully the satire of it all will put it into perspective.

  19. #19
    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    A key to achieving public acceptance of any "product" being introduced is to stimulate increased public awareness within the market place (the public square) that the "product" is available, OTHERS are buying it, and it is an expression of positive social values. Ultimately the desired goal is that more people will either participate by either "buying", or at least accepting the new "product's" value.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Welcome. Don't give OC in El Paso County a second thought. Both the CSPD and El Paso County Sheriff are well aware of what 'shall not be infringed' means. And many citizens OC. Whistling Pines Gun Club offers a 2 hour classroom, 1 hour range time course to get your CC for $125. It is the best out there. Look into it. With a CCW and living here, you have all the bases covered.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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