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Thread: Legal ramifications of the use of Hornady Zombie Max ammo for defense?

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    Lightbulb Legal ramifications of the use of Hornady Zombie Max ammo for defense?

    Hornady has introduced an ammuntion specifically designed for taking down Zombies (no I'm not kidding). The literature clearly and emphatically states that the ammunition is not intended for use against living humans or animals, but only on undead zombies. The question for discussion is, does this restriction open up a legal can of worms for an individual who has Zombie Max ammo loaded in a firearm and then ends up using it for self-defense? Can't the prosecution argue that the product was misused against the manufacturer's instructions. Doesn't this lead to criminal and at the very least, major civil liability?

    This thought just crossed my twisted mind.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewf View Post
    The question for discussion is, does this restriction open up a legal can of worms for an individual who has Zombie Max ammo loaded in a firearm and then ends up using it for self-defense? Can't the prosecution argue that the product was misused against the manufacturer's instructions. Doesn't this lead to criminal and at the very least, major civil liability?
    A good defense would simply point out the aggressor was indeed brain dead and therefore a zombie. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.
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    Regular Member Steeler-gal's Avatar
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    I had the same thought when i first heard about them. I actually asked my gun guy at tblarms.com about this. He said they're just hollow points with green(?) tips. The writing about it being strictly for zombies is not literal or serious.


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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    No. . .just no!

    Why even bother? You don't need to use gimmick ammo when regular rounds will get the job done just fine. God forbid you find yourself in a self defense shoot and have to deal with an overzealous DA who wants to peg you as a kook and unstable for buying and using rounds meant for a fictitious movie monster. No reason to give the DA any leverage to use against you.

    I'd also advise against using a wooden stake or silver rounds to repel a midnight intruder.
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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Zombie ammo .. REALLY, people???????

    Quote Originally Posted by
    You don't need to use gimmick ammo when regular rounds will get the job done just fine.
    1+
    Why waste ammo when a strike to the head with a soild object will do.


    Quote Originally Posted by
    I'd also advise against using a wooden stake or silver rounds to repel a midnight intruder.
    Unless they are extremely hairy and can walk on two and four legs and howl, if the later can fly and has long fangs (k-9's) the above is approved.
    Nothing needed for the later inside your home if you never invited them in.
    With the price of Silver on the rise I'd stock up now and I'd get to whitling go insure supply is high.


    On a serious note.... DON'T buy into the hype even as a joke.......
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member yz9890's Avatar
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    I just can't understand why anyone would carry gimmick ammo as a defense round. not only would all that "only use this ammo on zombies" crap on the box prevent me from loading it in my carry weapon, it would keep me from buying the ammo to begin with.

    that being said, I think many people worry way to much about defending their ammo choice in court in the inevitable aftermath. I load bullets into my defense weapons so I can kill someone with them if I need to. ammo is ammo. it puts holes in stuff.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent19 View Post
    Why waste ammo when a strike to the head with a solid object will do.
    Because if they're close enough for you to engage them in melee, they are close enough to wreck you if you miss.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drewf View Post
    Hornady has introduced an ammuntion specifically designed for taking down Zombies (no I'm not kidding).

    This thought just crossed my twisted mind.
    No offense, but how is this relevant to this board? Are there zombies in Virginia?

    Besides the state Senate, that is.

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Lethal force is lethal force IMO.


    "Your honor, the defendant shot his mugger in the head with a hollow point that had green stuff in the tip instead of red stuff in the tip, we are demanding he serve 50 years minimum for this"

    *GAVEL SLAMS*

    "Will the defendant please rise, - drewf, you are hereby found GUILTY of murder because you used a hollow point with green stuff in the tip. Had you used a hollow point with red stuff in the tip this would have been a completely hands clean justified shoot. You are sentenced to 70 years in confinement, aka life in prison. May you burn in hell for this heinous crime"
    Last edited by Schlitz; 02-23-2012 at 06:10 PM.
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
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    Regular Member GreatDaneMan's Avatar
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    It is the same stuff as Hornady Critical Defense. Only difference is the Critical Defense has a orange tip insert, the ZMAX has a green tip insert. SAME BULLET. The case on the ZMAX is brass and the Critical is nickel plated. Same price at a reputable store... But some sellers are marking it way up because of its novelty popularity.

    I almost bought a box with my PT-99 but going to wait untill the paycheck rolls in.

    The armory on indian river wont carry it because they dont want kids to get it... bullets are bullets.

    The reason I want it is because im into the zombie thing. I watch Walking Dead religiously and travel to NC every sunday to watch with a friend. R.E. movies.. Left 4 Dead games. I love em.
    Theres even a ZombieWalk in Virginia Beach every year. Its kinda fun.
    Last edited by GreatDaneMan; 02-23-2012 at 08:56 PM.
    Mud Blood and Oil with a great dane along for the ride!

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Because if they're close enough for you to engage them in melee, they are close enough to wreck you if you miss.
    "Miss" (in this context) is foreign to me..... and being that it's a four letter word to boot it shares the same file Click image for larger version. 

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    with can't and several other words and items...
    Last edited by Marco; 02-24-2012 at 11:03 AM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    Lethal force is lethal force IMO."


    Unfortunately not everyone thinks this way. One may not get convicted; historical evidence does support that there is always the possiblity of being charged and shelling out huge legal fees to defend oneself, and worried that one might go to jail based on the type of gun/ ammuntion that was used. It has happened in Virginia and could happen again if the gun or ammo used is outside "society's" idea of normal. Frankly I do not care if one uses a M2 to defend oneself, but then again my type will probably not be sitting on the jury.

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    The ammo has the restriction on it "never to be used on anything but zombies". I am sure it exists as a marketing ploy just like "Law Enforcement Use Only". Tips are supposed to glow in the dark, now that might make nighttime tactical reloads a bit easier.

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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    I bought some, just because it made me chuckle.

    I don't see myself ever loading it into one of my guns for defensive purposes.

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    Legal ramifications? You're kidding, right? Murder involves the unlawful killing of another person, and you have to be alive to be a "person". When you're in a "Night of the Living Dead" situation, it really doesn't matter. Of course you're much more likely to have your brains eaten by spirochetes or amoebas than by zombies. Legal ramifications?

    Or is the Ayoob thing about how you're going to be convicted of murder simply because the gun you used to shoot Badguy had lightened springs, nightsights, an action job, or that you used cartridges with hollow point bullets? Here's an excerpt from "The Deadly Force Seminar": the eight-hundred pound gorilla in the room when your case comes up for trial is going to be the fact that you shot someone and he's either dead or injured as a result. Are you going to pretend you didn't shoot him and hope no one will notice? Do you really think the fact that your handgun is better prepared for defensive use than someone else's is will make a difference?

    If you really did murder someone, then such things can be evidence of premeditation. But if (and I can say this confidently for another year, at least, given the demise of those fake "castle doctrine bills) you had a good, legally justifiable or at least excusable reason to shoot, then you're much better off to take the air out of the prosecution's case by asserting the affirmative defense, which always involve the admission of the shooting. I tell people I want clients whom I can put on the witness stand in their own behalf, and who can testify, "You're derned tootin' I shot him! I was right to do so, it was necessary, and here's why..." I want clients who can say they acted lawfully in self defense, defense of others, defense of habitation, or stopping a serious felony in progress. If you're really guilty of murder or malicious wounding, then the best thing is damage control ("plea bargain"). No point in going to trial unless you think you're going to get a better deal from the jury than you will from the prosecutor or need to avoid pleading anything other than "not guilty" (also called a "slow plea") so that your plea can't be used against you in a subsequent civil case.

    In either case, the kind of bullets you used are going to be the least of your worries. If you're really only interested in defensive use of the firearm, I'd say use the best equipment you can afford, and be as effective as you can with it. If you don't have a lawful reason to shoot, leave the gun in the holster, don't think about it, don't touch it, and don't talk about it. Otherwise, when necessary, be effective. It's kind of a binary choice, because the law does not provide any middle ground.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    No offense, but how is this relevant to this board? Are there zombies in Virginia?

    Besides the state Senate, that is.
    I was just about to mention Saslaw, then I read your second sentence.

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    The only difference with the ammo is the tip is green instead of red. The box is a gimmick box.

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    i need a box now LMAO...just because...i want to give it to my sister who is a 'Zombie' fan...

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    As stated it is the same as the critical defense ammo. And personally I've thought about getting some just because I can get the zmax stuff for a bit cheaper than the regular critical defense stuff. So that alone would be reason enough to buy it given that outside of the color and box art it is the same as the regular SD stuff.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    Tips are supposed to glow in the dark,
    I can see it now.
    You fired all six!!!!! I can't see those glowing tips.


    some sellers are marking it way up because of its novelty popularity
    That's why I say don't buy into the hype, if Hornady is your fodder and XTP, Critial Defense, Critial Duty or TAP is less expensive why bother.



    Tips are supposed to glow in the dark, now that might make nighttime tactical reloads a bit easier.
    Imho, you should be able to do it in total darkenss, with feel alone.
    In a tactical situation I don't know that I'd be looking at my gun/hands vs the threat.
    Last edited by Marco; 02-28-2012 at 12:40 PM.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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