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Thread: Legalities of purchase

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    Regular Member J_Oliver's Avatar
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    Legalities of purchase

    So, I have a friend who has a felony from 23 years ago. About 7 years ago, he purchased, inadvertantly, a few handguns from his brother on a pawn kind of system. Hew loaned his brother the money and held onto the firearms for him. At the time he didn't realize he wasn't supposed to have them nor did he know anything about the antiquated PPP system.

    Needless to say, his brother never came back for the guns and later passed away. Someone recently brought to his attention he wasn't supposed to have them and he's freaking out now. He's never fired them, they've stayed in the factory cases in his closet. Is there a way to LEGALLY purchase them from him? They were all legally purchased by his brother, who had a chp when he purchased them.

    Do I trust him with them? With my life. He made a mistake and he's paying for it. He's in process of trying to have his rights restored, but it's not looking too good. He has been a law abiding citizen ever since. What should I do?
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    I talked to our county sherriff about this one time and he told me that as long as the guns werent stolen, and that if I was legal to purchace a handgun then all I should do was to do a bill of sale for it and that was really it. He said that I wouldnt have to give up one of my permits to the individual that I was purchacing it from. I would talk to someone like that just to make sure, but thats what he told me.

    E.J.

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    Regular Member moonie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock19fan View Post
    I talked to our county sherriff about this one time and he told me that as long as the guns werent stolen, and that if I was legal to purchace a handgun then all I should do was to do a bill of sale for it and that was really it. He said that I wouldnt have to give up one of my permits to the individual that I was purchacing it from. I would talk to someone like that just to make sure, but thats what he told me.

    E.J.
    This is incorrect, for ANY handgun transfer you are required to have a PPP and give it to the person/estate you are purchasing it from, even if it is an individual. As usually happens the county sherriff is wrong. Please look up the laws regarding this issue for yourself and don't take his, or my word for it.

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    Regular Member sultan62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonie View Post
    This is incorrect, for ANY handgun transfer you are required to have a PPP and give it to the person/estate you are purchasing it from, even if it is an individual. As usually happens the county sherriff is wrong. Please look up the laws regarding this issue for yourself and don't take his, or my word for it.
    Actually, you are required to have obtained it; there is no requirement to have turned it over. I agree that OP should look up the law, but there is no statutory requirement to actually transfer the permit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonie View Post
    This is incorrect, for ANY handgun transfer you are required to have a PPP and give it to the person/estate you are purchasing it from, even if it is an individual. As usually happens the county sherriff is wrong. Please look up the laws regarding this issue for yourself and don't take his, or my word for it.
    You are incorrect. Please look up the laws before trying to correct someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by NC General Statutes
    14‑402. Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden.

    (a) It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless: (i) a license or permit is first obtained under this Article by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser or receiver resides; or (ii) a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit is held under Article 54B of this Chapter by the purchaser or receiver who must be a resident of the State at the time of the purchase.


    Nowhere does it say what is to be done with the permit just that it has to be obtained. Here is the interpretation from the NC Sheriffs website. Notice the word should is used when discussing this type transaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by NC Sheriffs.org
    Under North Carolina law, it is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation to sell,
    give away, transfer, purchase, or receive, at any place in the state, any pistol, unless the
    purchaser or receiver has first obtained a license or permit to receive such a pistol by the
    sheriff of the county where the purchaser or receiver resides, or the purchaser or receiver
    possesses a valid North Carolina-issued concealed carry permit. This requirement to obtain
    a permit prior to the transfer of a pistol applies not only to a commercial transaction,
    typically at a sporting goods store, but also between private individuals or companies
    throughout North Carolina. N.C. Gen. Stat. 14-402(a)


    In addition, this State law has been interpreted to require that a pistol permit be
    obtained by the receiver of a handgun when such person inherits a pistol as a result of the
    death of another person. The permit should be given to and retained by the seller or donor
    of the handgun. In such a case, the permit should be given to the executor or receiver of
    the estate of the deceased person. If the purchaser or receiver uses a North Carolina- issued
    concealed carry permit for the transfer, the seller should reference such permit on a bill of
    sale.
    The way I would buy them from him would be contingent on the serial #'s being run by the Sheriff's Dept. If you do not have a Concealed Carry Permit then first get a purchase permit then take them to the Sheriff's Dept. and explain to them that you bought them from an individual and you want to make sure that they have not been reported stolen at any time. If any come back as stolen then you will need an agreement with the seller to refund a portion of the money.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 02-24-2012 at 03:41 PM.

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    Regular Member J_Oliver's Avatar
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    He just doesn't want to get in any trouble and I don't want to see him in any. He's finally got his life where he wants it. I know one of them he purchased from a friend so I'm pretty sure I can go to his friend and "purchase" it from him to fulfill the requirements for a legal sale. I'll have to call the sheriff's dept. Concerning the others. Thanks guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Oliver View Post
    He just doesn't want to get in any trouble and I don't want to see him in any. He's finally got his life where he wants it. I know one of them he purchased from a friend so I'm pretty sure I can go to his friend and "purchase" it from him to fulfill the requirements for a legal sale. I'll have to call the sheriff's dept. Concerning the others. Thanks guys.

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    You do not have to do that. It is not your responsibility to verify the rightful owner of a firearm. There is no way for the guy to get in trouble unless you tell on him. In NC you do not even need a bill of sale for a firearm, possession is ownership. If you are 100% sure they are not stolen or have been used to commit a crime then give your friend the money and take possession of the firearms.

    If I go to a swap meet or gun show and there is some individual trying to sell a pistol then all I have to do is give him the money. I run the risk that it is stolen but I do not have to give him a purchase permit as I have a Concealed License and he does not have to prove to me he is the rightful owner. Do not over think this situation.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 02-24-2012 at 03:58 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member J_Oliver's Avatar
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    Well, they're not stolen. Checked with a family friend who is a police captain and he and the sheriff's department both agreed it would be alright for me to purchase them. BUT...and there's always one of those somewhere close by... he runs the risk of being caught in the situation of how could he sell them if he wasn't legally able to possess/own one to begin with and could get in trouble for possession. But the final ruling on that one would, should this highly unlikely event happen, be up to a judge to decide.

    Thank you all for the responses. We're going to see how this "restoration" of firearms rights things works out before he makes the decision to sell them. They'll remain in my posession til the final word to prevent any complications with the law.

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    Me: "Why the hell would you do that?"

    Kyd: "Thats one judge, 12 jurors, and a half a chance I'm gonna get off..." ]

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    How will anyone know he sold them to you? They are not vehicles. There is no title and no registration to be completed. If you think about it he can not get in to trouble for selling them. There is no law against a convicted felon selling a firearm, just possessing or purchasing one. Once sold they are no longer in his possession. You can not be convicted with possession after the fact.
    Last edited by NC-Heel; 02-25-2012 at 04:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonie View Post
    This is incorrect, for ANY handgun transfer you are required to have a PPP and give it to the person/estate you are purchasing it from, even if it is an individual. As usually happens the county sherriff is wrong. Please look up the laws regarding this issue for yourself and don't take his, or my word for it.
    When I got the handgun from my Company Commander, we were in Korea. We went through our JAG to transfer it and to get a notarized bill of sale.
    Once I got back to country when I picked up my handgun permits, I had asked the sheriff if I had to send a handgun permit to my Commander, and he said I could if I wanted too, but didnt have to though. I talked to him for sometime about this as I wanted to make sure that I did it lawfully.

    E.J.

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