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Newt and OC

Batousaii

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
1,226
Location
Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
- Am i suspicious of ultra rich powerful men in suits who can leach whats left of our Country in to a brain dead landscape of pre-programmed sheeple willing to give up their right because the TV told them to ??? ..... Damn straight I am.

Did the TV tell you about those ultra rich powerful men and what they are doing?

Sounds like another boogie man tale to me designed to pre-program the sheeple.

Typical brainwashed talking points without any basis in fact. General statements like this without factual back up are beyond pathetic IMHO.

Bat I thought you were smarter than this.

To keep this on topic I plan to OC to a Ron Paul event next Friday in Spokane, pics to follow.

Keep up the good work Jim.

I don't watch much TV at all, we have Netflix, thats it. Interent maybe?.. I spend most of my time throwing a wrench on my Harley and hot rods.

- How did i come to that mindset? Actually i function off of what I see, experience over my years and what history drafts in it's ledger. I been all over the world and understand there is a difference between "their version of history and ours" (a fascinating study too). I have read how cultures have risen and fallen, even in recent history (last 100 years). Most people think "It could never happen here, it's America"... Yet the last 100 years we have seen warfare on a massive level. WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Kosovo,Croatia, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc. etc.... How many massive government changes have happened around the world in recent history: The rise and fall of the third Reich, the formation of Israel, the rise and fall of communist Russia, the division of Korea, etc. etc. - How many countries have actually come and gone and simply dony exist anymore? Change, especially drastic change is the nature of the beast. It is in fact how the world, left un-checked, works... I ask, WHO MADE THESE CHANGES?

- So I will again ask, where do these changes come from? How did these events happen? Who created these conditions... The fact is that powerful people left un-checked create these conditions through gloat and greed. These little groups of ultra elite, ultra powerful, often ultra wealthy people can (as history has shown over and over again) become selfish zealots that hold no regard for what "the people" need or want. At a point they become so caught up in their "vision" of creating some great culture that they forget the humanity thats connected to it. Some never cared and just seek power and raw control... Maybe you'd like to claim that Nazi or KGB never existed, or that the 1950's commie-propaganda driven scare in the USA was fake too? Regular people did this? Or Who?

- Why did our founding father have all those little quotes that we 2nd amendment types love so much? Hell, why do we have a second amendment?? If the world and politicians were such a trustable lovable bunch, then 2-A would be about hunting... You obviously dont really need guns, because the USA, government, and happy citizens are so trustable. ~ Forget the past, and we will be bound to repeat it.

- Where are we now? Almost $4 Gas (supposed to be $5 next year -YAY!), food prices going out the roof, horrible economy, more laws being drafted every day, awesome government programs like "fast and furious", health care, any of us 20-35k a year blue collar workers get a good raise lately? ... And please remind me WHO created this condition??? - Did "We the people" do it?? Or Did Bankers, Politicians, elite power pukers and government create this??? -- Smarter than that??? Smarter than what?? <sigh> What are we NOT seeing here???

No I don't believe in Illuminati, or the secret Zionists, or black helicopters, or one world "secret" government movements. I don't believe in NATO/UN trying to take over the world, nor do i fret about conspiracy theorys..... but History DOES have a track record that can not be dismissed, and to not acknowledge WHO created that track record is reckless and dangerous.

Sen. Kline "Because I alone chose not to schedule these two bills for a hearing" .... Example of a suit doing what they please, pursuing their own vision. Minor yes, but it fits the pattern. Let them get away with it, they will keep doing it, and to what ends? .. Maybe we'd like to shake Kline's hand too...
(from thread: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...-latest-gun-initiatives&p=1709746#post1709746 )

- WHY is it that we struggle to retain our second amendment rights?? Who is it that we claim to protect ourselves from via the 2nd Amendment? Please elaborate the founding ideas to me regarding powerful people in high positions, then ask I'll if you'd like to question my intelligence again.

Being "smarter than that" means acknowledging the possible places these people can bring us to while we are screaming in the back seat.

Pathetic is ignoring history, and doing a "trust fall" in to the arms of government.

BTW - This is on topic... Your shaking hands with politians, and I am asking you to KNOW who's hand your shaking... and to let me know if this politian supports OPEN CARRY and respects, even supports, protects and defends the 2nd Amendment to the Constition of the United States of America.

Bat.

P.S. It could never happen in America.... right?
 

Jeff Hayes

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
2,569
Location
Long gone
Bat

I have to disagree with you, the suits only do what we allow them to do. Hitler for example only did what he did because he had the support of the German people. The German people elected Hitler. The German people supported rounding up the Jews and confiscating their wealth in a scenario very similar to the current lets make the rich pay their fair share we see happening in America today.

We the People are responsible for the current mess we are in, not the suits.

And yes thank God for the 2nd Amendment the Jews in Germany did not have that option.
 
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Batousaii

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
1,226
Location
Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
~ NOT what i'm talking about....

"You know I really tire of hearing this hate the rich mentality.If a person works or simply gets lucky in investments and make a billion dollars so what.That wa free market economy.I have more than I need for example and I'm going to control it because things I did or worked for.Should I Lower my standard of living to keep someone else off the street ,of course not.Neither should anyone else <Sinp>" ~ Deros

100% NOT what I am talking about. I am in no way shape or form talking about "the people" who manage to get rich and live their won lives without hurting others. I am not talking about "rich people" ... I am talking about "Power Mongers" who use that power and money to controll the game for their own intent, usually at the cost of others (being us.).

- I would love to be rich, I dont care if You or any common person is rich.. good for them, happy they made it, admire them if they started from scratch. ---

- If you cant see what I am talking about.. then why fight for the 2nd Amendment? - Maybe we dont need guns?
 
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dwordinger

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2009
Messages
80
Location
, ,
At 76 Ron Paul has the sharpest mind of any Republican candidate. (Benjamin Franklin was 81 at the Constitutional Convention.) He is the only one to support our civil rights 100% of the time. http://gunowners.org/2012presidential.htm Gun Owners alludes to, but doesn't say Santorum supported mandatory gun locks and the Domestic Violence Offender Gun Ban. This legislation would have made it illegal for anyone convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence or who has a restraining order against them to own a gun. Any vote for Mitt, Newt, or Rick is a vote for more victim disarmament, more gun control, and more restrictions on our civil rights.
 

Batousaii

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
1,226
Location
Kitsap Co., Washington, USA
50/50 actually.

Bat

I have to disagree with you, the suits only do what we allow them to do. Hitler for example only did what he did because he had the support of the German people. The German people elected Hitler. The German people supported rounding up the Jews and confiscating their wealth in a scenario very similar to the current lets make the rich pay their fair share we see happening in America today.

We the People are responsible for the current mess we are in, not the suits.

And yes thank God for the 2nd Amendment the Jews in Germany did not have that option.

- Had it not been for the hysterical propaganda being fed to the German people, the idea of mass-genocide probably wouldn't have entered the common persons mind. The War would have never happened if their leaders produced a peaceful means to an end. You are still validating my point by simply saying "thank God for the 2nd Amendment the Jews in Germany did not have that option" - You know how many German people, even in the reich tried to kill Hitler because they realised the horror of his vision? - Yet how many followed more him? Why did they follow him- Did everyone in germany wake up one day and say "Hey guys, lets go kill the jews" ... How did they get that idea in the first place? - How did that become a "good idea"? (answer: a government's "vision" and hystrical media mixed with desperate times ... sound familure?) ... And to that, what sort of silly ideas is our government feeding our people, and where will we go in the future. Should we not be concerned? Hmm.. McDonnalds does sound good right now, and I think my show is on soon...

- I can only lay a small portion of the blame on "The People"... because too many are just followers. It is up to the leaders to lead with honorable intent. Powerful people with abberant vison create abberant societies.

- The people in America are to busy eating cheeseburgers and watching American Idol to notice whats going on. They dont exercize their rights enough to even realise they are losing them... Those of us that are awake enough to realise history, and can see the trend that the USA is on are considered "radicals" or "freeks" .. even by their own peers (read this thread)?

- Open Carry, the 2nd Amendment, to me, is not a commercial media venture... to me it is an expression of American Freedom. It is the weigh and scale that I use to determin a government's (and it's workers) willingness to allow me autonomy, indipendance, and how they will steer the country in favor of the people, or in favor of themselves, the banks, the mongers.

- So to topic.. YES.... I wanted to know if Newt has given solid statements, track record, and support of OC, 2-A, "we the people" ... or is he just smiling and shaking hands?... Whats his "vision" ?

Anyways - Have fun guys, going to work on my Harley now.

Bat

P
.S. RE: Rich People...
~ I am NOT about taking from the rich to give to the poor!!
-- > I AM ABOUT HAVING A FAIR CHANCE TO GET RICH or make a comfortable living in a high speed, low drag economy that supports hard work and dedication. I greatly admire those that worked hard to get rich, and would never infringe upon their rights to be so. I work hard to be comfortable too.-

However: Those that use that wealth to keep others poor so that they can have power over them - are evil.
 
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amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Don't Overlook the Important Part of an Election

Sometimes we get all wrapped up in the "Beauty Pagent" of a Presidential Election and forget about the equal if not more important part of the ballot.

Besides candidates for President, there will also be ALL of the Representatives, and 1/3 of the Senate. While the choice for President is important, don't overlook the fact that his major role is Foreign Policy, suggesting a Budget and Legislation, and Signing or Vetoing bills passed by Congress. Congress is where the major damage to our Country and Rights occurs. Go ahead and pick a "pretty face" if you want for President but be real careful who you select for Congress. They're the ones that pass all the regulations, raise the revenue (taxes), and allow the various agencies to screw the public.

This year we get to decide whether Maria Cantwell is worth sending back, or not. Likewise for all our Representatives. Don't let the smoke of the Presidential Election cloud your vision.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Bat

I have to disagree with you, the suits only do what we allow them to do. Hitler for example only did what he did because he had the support of the German people. The German people elected Hitler. The German people supported rounding up the Jews and confiscating their wealth in a scenario very similar to the current lets make the rich pay their fair share we see happening in America today.

We the People are responsible for the current mess we are in, not the suits.

And yes thank God for the 2nd Amendment the Jews in Germany did not have that option.

- Had it not been for the hysterical propaganda being fed to the German people, the idea of mass-genocide probably wouldn't have entered the common persons mind. The War would have never happened if their leaders produced a peaceful means to an end. You are still validating my point by simply saying "thank God for the 2nd Amendment the Jews in Germany did not have that option" - You know how many German people, even in the reich tried to kill Hitler because they realised the horror of his vision? - Yet how many followed more him? Why did they follow him- Did everyone in germany wake up one day and say "Hey guys, lets go kill the jews" ... How did they get that idea in the first place? - How did that become a "good idea"? (answer: a government's "vision" and hystrical media mixed with desperate times ... sound familure?) ... And to that, what sort of silly ideas is our government feeding our people, and where will we go in the future. Should we not be concerned? Hmm.. McDonnalds does sound good right now, and I think my show is on soon...

- I can only lay a small portion of the blame on "The People"... because too many are just followers. It is up to the leaders to lead with honorable intent. Powerful people with abberant vison create abberant societies.

- The people in America are to busy eating cheeseburgers and watching American Idol to notice whats going on. They dont exercize their rights enough to even realise they are losing them... Those of us that are awake enough to realise history, and can see the trend that the USA is on are considered "radicals" or "freeks" .. even by their own peers (read this thread)?

- Open Carry, the 2nd Amendment, to me, is not a commercial media venture... to me it is an expression of American Freedom. It is the weigh and scale that I use to determin a government's (and it's workers) willingness to allow me autonomy, indipendance, and how they will steer the country in favor of the people, or in favor of themselves, the banks, the mongers.

- So to topic.. YES.... I wanted to know if Newt has given solid statements, track record, and support of OC, 2-A, "we the people" ... or is he just smiling and shaking hands?... Whats his "vision" ?

Anyways - Have fun guys, going to work on my Harley now.

Bat

P
.S. RE: Rich People...
~ I am NOT about taking from the rich to give to the poor!!
-- > I AM ABOUT HAVING A FAIR CHANCE TO GET RICH or make a comfortable living in a high speed, low drag economy that supports hard work and dedication. I greatly admire those that worked hard to get rich, and would never infringe upon their rights to be so. I work hard to be comfortable too.-

However: Those that use that wealth to keep others poor so that they can have power over them - are evil.

Interesting books to read on this

Omnipotent Government by Ludwid Von Mises...the Germans didn't necessarily like Hitler (although many did), they just thought he was the "lesser of two evils" that could defeat communism, they were mislead that socialism of any sort even National Socialism wasn't much different. This book was written shortly before the end of WWII. It shows how the communist were viewed "the left" and the "socialist" viewed as "the right". Earily similar to the fake "choices" we are given today.

They thought they were free by Milton Mayer (I got it free on the e-reader)...Germans had their prejudices but really weren't all that aware of what was happening to the Jewish population. And many did disapprove but were just too afraid to speak out.

So you both are right in away it was the lack of doing something because of the mislead perception of the population that allowed Nazism and the horrors along with it occur. It also was the incremental positivism that we see pervasive in our society today. We cannot and should not give the government a monopoly on force. That is why we have the 2A.
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
Any vote for Mitt, Newt, or Rick is a vote for more victim disarmament, more gun control, and more restrictions on our civil rights.

Ill say, I do have my own preferences in whom I would like to see the republican nomination. However (Unfortunately), I will vote for anyone who's last name is not Obama at this point. So while you may say its a vote for more restrictions on our civil rights ANY vote is a vote for LESS restrictions than with whom we have now, which is better than no improvement...
 

jt59

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
1,005
Location
Central South Sound
Three perspectives on 2A by the candidates - You decide

So, I took a look at what is out there both from several sources, but principally the candidates websites if available to understand who has a global view of the 2A issue and try to discern (on a one issue platform) who will help the most, who...not so much:

Mitt

Romney has said "I support the right of individuals to keep and bear arms as guaranteed under the U.S. Constitution,"[56] though in past campaigns he has described himself as a proponent of gun control, and he fully supports a ban on assault weapons.[57]

For Romney's 1994 US Senate campaign, he supported the Brady Bill, which imposed a five-day waiting period on gun sales, and a ban on particular semi-automatic rifles.[57] In a 2002 debate during Romney's campaign for governor of Massachusetts, Romney said: "We do have tough gun laws in Massachusetts; I support them. I won't chip away at them; I believe they protect us and provide for our safety."[58] As governor, Romney signed a 2004 measure instituting a permanent Massachusetts ban on military style assault weapons, to take the place of a Federal ban, which was then about to expire. The bill made Massachusetts the first state to enact its own such ban on specific semi-automatic weapons and some shotguns with specific accessories, and Romney supported the law with the comment: "These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people."[59] As Governor, Romney extended the term of firearm licenses from four to six years, reinstated a 90-day grace period for citizens renewing their gun licenses, and signed a law providing free replacement licenses.[citation needed]

When he supported the Brady Bill in 1994, Romney said, "That's not going to make me the hero of the NRA. I don't line up with the NRA."[58] Just before declaring his candidacy for the 2008 Republican nomination for president, Romney joined the National Rifle Association (NRA).[57][57][60] In 2005, Romney declared the 31st anniversary of the Gun Owners' Action League "Right to Bear Arms Day".[61]

Santorum

Althought his website on "issues" seems to focus on long held hunting and sporting perspective on 2A rights, his detailed opinion appears on the record: http://www.ricksantorum.com/sites/default/files/GOA_Santorum_Survey_Response.pdf

Newt

Newt Gingrich on Guns: A Mixed Record

Tuesday, 22 November 2011 08:18 Prior to the “Republican Revolution” of 1994, Rep. Newt Gingrich of Georgia had earned an A rating with Gun Owners of America. But that all changed in 1995, after Republicans were swept to power and Gingrich became Speaker of the House.

The Republicans gained the majority, thanks in large part to gun owners outraged by the Clinton gun ban. And upon taking the reins of the House, Speaker Gingrich said famously that, “As long as I am Speaker of this House, no gun control legislation is going to move in committee or on the floor of this House and there will be no further erosion of their rights.”

His promise didn’t hold up, however, and his GOA rating quickly dropped to well below the “C-level.” In 1996, the Republican-led Congress passed the “gun free school zones act,” creating criminal safe zones like Virginia Tech, where the only person armed was a murderous criminal. Speaker Newt Gingrich voted for the bill containing this ban.[1]

The same bill also contained the now infamous Lautenberg gun ban, which lowered the threshold for losing one’s Second Amendment rights to a mere misdemeanor.[2] Gun owners could, as a result of this ban, lose their gun rights forever for non-violent shouting matches that occurred in the home -- and, in many cases, lose their rights without a jury trial.

While a legislator might sometimes vote for a spending bill which contains objectionable amendments, that was clearly NOT the case with Newt Gingrich in 1996. Speaking on Meet the Press in September of that year, Speaker Gingrich said the Lautenberg gun ban was “a very reasonable position.”[3] He even refused to cosponsor a repeal of the gun ban during the next Congress -- despite repeated requests to do so.[4]

Also in 1996, Speaker Gingrich cast his vote for an anti-gun terror bill which contained several harmful provisions. For example, one of the versions he supported (in March of that year) contained a DeLauro amendment that would have severely punished gun owners for possessing a laser sighting device while committing an infraction as minor as speeding on a federal reservation.[5] (Not only would this provision have stigmatized laser sights, it would have served as a first step to banning these items.) Another extremely harmful provision was the Schumer amendment to “centralize Federal, State and Local police.”[6]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Final passage of H.R. 3610, Sept. 28, 1996 at: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll455.xml . Rep. Steve Stockman (R-TX) warned his colleagues about the hidden dangers in H.R. 3610, and in regard to the Kohl ban, noted that it would “prohibit most persons from carrying unloaded firearms in their automobiles.”

See Gingrich’s vote at: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll455.xml .

[3] Associated Press, “Gingrich Favors Handgun Ban for Domestic Abuse Convicts,” Deseret News, Sept. 16, 1996. The full quote reveals how much Speaker Gingrich had adopted the anti-gunners’ line of thinking: “I'm very much in favor of stopping people who engage in violence against their spouses from having guns,” the Georgia Republican said Sunday on NBC's “Meet the Press.” “I think that's a very reasonable position.” But the fact that this gun ban covers misdemeanors in the home is primary evidence that NON-violent people have been subjected to lifetime gun bans for things like: shouting matches, throwing a set of keys in the direction of another person, spanking a child, etc.

[4] See H.R.1009, “States' Rights and Second and Tenth Amendment Restoration Act of 1997,” introduced by Rep. Helen Chenoweth (R-ID).

H.R. 2703, March 14, 1996 at: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll066.xml .

S. 735, April 18, 1996 at: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll126.xml .

From Newt's website

Newt 2012 > Solutions > Defending Second Amendment Rights
The right to bear arms is a political right designed to safeguard freedom so that no government can take away from you the rights which God has given you. – Newt Gingrich, NRA’s Celebration of American Values Leadership Forum

We live in a time when international organizations and our own federal government are devoting significant efforts to eliminate the right of Americans to keep and bear arms. We must forcefully echo the Declaration of Independence and insist that the first duty of government is to provide for our safety. At the core of this is the Constitutional right of the people to provide for their own safety.


THE GINGRICH RECORD DEFENDING SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS:

Newt has been a committed and vigilant defender of Second Amendment rights since first being elected by the people of Georgia’s Sixth District in 1978.
Newt is a lifetime member of the National Rifle Association, and speaks regularly at the NRA’s Annual Meeting. He received an A or A-plus rating from the NRA all ten terms that he served in the House of Representatives, and received the NRA’s Defender of the Second Amendment award in 2010.

WHAT NEWT WILL DO ON DAY ONE:

Instruct the Department of Justice and State Department to defend American sovereignty and block all international treaties that infringe on Second Amendment rights.
Take immediate steps to decisively control the border so Mexican drug cartels are blocked from entering the United States.
End all illegal gun exports to Mexico by the federal government.
End the discriminatory treatment of firearms imports. If a gun can be legally made and sold in the United States, it should be importable from outside the United States

Ron Paul

Rep. Ron Paul: A Second Amendment Champion
Tuesday, 22 November 2011 08:12 Guts. That is the one word which describes Rep. Ron Paul of Texas best. Perhaps the most consistent vote in the Congress, he can be expected to oppose any unconstitutional expansion of government, no matter how politically difficult that vote might be.
He was one of only three Congressmen to vote against the USA Patriot Act -- a law which not only removes many of the delicate checks and balances protecting our freedoms, but opens the door for the ATF to conduct blanket searches in obtaining 4473’s and other gun records.

Paul has been a powerful advocate for the Second Amendment and has sponsored legislation to repeal most gun laws dating back to 1968 -- as well as, legislation to get the U.S. out of the anti-gun United Nations.

In 2011, Rep. Paul introduced HR 2613, a bill to repeal the infamous Gun Free School Zones law. Slammed through in 1996 as an amendment to a giant last-minute must-pass appropriations bill, the school zones law disarmed school staff and other adults, leaving elementary and secondary school children defenseless to serial killers.

It also made it virtually impossible to drive your car down the street with your gun inside without violating the law by creating a 1000-foot so-called “gun-free zone” around every public and private school in the country.

It’s “gun free,” that is, except for the criminals.

Paul’s bill, HR 2613, will repeal the Kohl amendment and thus remove the federally created criminal safety zones.

Ron Paul has an A+ rating with Gun Owners of America.

...and just for interests sake, to look at a candidates overall platform bias to your own...try this.... http://www.selectsmart.com/president/

Who to believe, who to believe, who to believe....

Listen Jack, I'm a politician which means, I'm a cheat and a liar, and when I'm not kissing babies I'm stealing their lollipops. But it also means I keep my options open.

"The Hunt For Red October"
 
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