I read a few pages of this thread, and I decided to respond to the OP instead.
Take care and God bless you, bro!
I find it amusing that the majority of members that posted aggressively to you in the first few pages don't live in Utah. Hmmm. I have lived in a few states other than Utah, and I have to say that out of all of those, Utah has got to be the best place to meet a polite officer.Hello,
I am a officer here in Utah, I support the right to keep and bear arms. I am attempting to educate myself and those I work with and also make contacting those who open carry a good experience for all involved. That said I will make a few statements so you understand where I am coming from and then ask several questions and would appreciate your insight.
You gotta do what you gotta do.Statements, These are my personal beliefs
1. When you open carry the police may be called. I work for the citizens of Utah both those who open carry and those who make the call reporting the activity. I have a duty to investigate even if that means driving by, smiling and waving, and then moving on. Please do not fault me for responding to a request from another citizen
Guns don't make me nervous. What makes me nervous is the cops that I have met that actually make cops as a whole look bad. It scares me that not only do they have a gun on their hip, but a badge that says they can take my life. Too often bad cops have been given the silk glove treatment when they abuse the rights of others, and even a few were given no more than a slap on the hand if they killed someone "accidentally". With that said, I also know of far more non-LEO "gunnies" (gun lovers) that scare me even more. Some are very respectable individuals. Some, however, act as if they are cops when they aren't. I have experienced some very hairy situations involving guns with non-LEOs far more than with LEOs. It's a matter of responsibility. Some people, no matter their employment role, just ain't got the common sense that God gives a snail. Most Law Enforcement Agencies are able to extract the idiots from their force before anything terrible happens. Sadly, they don't always get all of them.2. Guns make me nervous, some cops with guns make me nervous. I do not know you weapon handling skills, I do not know your intentions. Nothing personal you just get paranoid doing this job for too long. Why? because I have arrested individuals who were "open carrying" one had felony warrants, one had hidden red and blue lights in his car, one had handcuffs, pepper spray, police jackets, and other items, one had more heroin and syringes in the car then I could shake a stick at. These folks are the exception (I hope) not the rule. Yes I had violations of the law allowing me to identify and detain these individuals not just the fact they were open carrying. So, everyone makes me nervous its not just you.
I agree 10,000%. Something to add is I hope people don't carry just because they can. You can also speak your opinions freely, too. But that doesn't exactly mean you should. And in reality open carry more than just the Second Amendment, but also the First Amendment. What you carry, how you carry it and how you act while carrying it speak volumes.3. Confrontational, if you are putting on a firearm then hoping the cops stop you so you can show how smart, right, or awesome you are you are stupid. You may be well within your rights but you are stupid. The purpose of carrying a firearms should be defense. Carry for the right reason.
Man, that is the worst thing to say. "...I really just want to earn a paycheck so I can feed my kids and go home to my wife...." is NOT a good reason to be a cop. I have cops through out my family. And if you do that just for a paycheck, you're not going to last. It takes dedication and love to keep on doing it and doing it well. And if there is no law saying I must ID myself, don't count on my doing it. That is my right.4. Identification, I really just want to earn a paycheck so I can feed my kids and go home to my wife. I understand the reasons for not wanting to provide identification and if you refuse that's fine by me it's your right, assuming you have not violated any laws. But consider this, you know who else refuses to carry ID or identify themselves to police? Drug cartel members (they do it so they don't get deported again), individuals with warrants who have violated the law and refused to handle it correctly. So still not saying you have to ID yourself but it sends red flags to officers. Heck years ago I had an individual who refused to ID himself, long story short he murdered several people in AZ and was on the FBI's most wanted. If you were me would you be seeing warning signs?
If you're nice to me I'll be nice to you. If you're a dick to me, unless you suspect me (with RS) of a crime, I'm gonna walk away. Also, Hi Point is not a piece of crap. There is no handgun on the market that is as multifunctional as the Hi Point. No where else will you find a .45 acp that can break doors down with ease...club a burglar senseless (again with ease)...provide as a dandy of a boat anchor while fishing...and STILL provide as much inaccuracy in your shooting enough to scare the beegeebers out of your target enough they surrender without firing a shot. No other gun can beat that! :banghead: :lol:1. Do you mind being contacted in a casual manner? not detained. I seriously just want to talk to you, I love guns and assuming you are not carrying a gigantic piece of crap (hi-point comes to mind) I will ask you how you like it and how it shoots, and maybe if you are selling it (do not tell my wife). Unless you are super busy thats cool too.
I see deterrence as the primary reason. But then, I have also learned to take heed to the teachings in the Holy Bible. Like the verse that says "a wise man that sees danger will avoid it. A fool will take it head on." So in essence, beware and be aware.2. Why not concealed? From a purely tactical standpoint I would rather have my weapon concealed. A concealed weapon lends to the surprise part of speed, surprise, and violence of action. I am looking for real reasons, not "cause I can". I will accept deterrence as a legitimate reason.
I dunno. With steak & lobster? If you're nice to me I'll be nice to you.3. How do you want to be approached? Like I said before I cannot just ignore a call I get dispatched to. Man with a gun calls are not entirely uncommon, I must respond and make sure no laws are being violated, or are about to be. Is there anyway I can do that without stepping on your toes or making this a huge deal when it does not need to be? Keep in mind I just want to make sure that you are not going to kill or hurt anyone (that doesn't need killin'). I would have a hard time sleeping if I did not confront an armed individual who later killed someones child.
Realizing that you have a very hard job, I still urge you to read Matthew 7. And Matthew 25:40 is good, too.4. If you could tell a group of cops anything what would you tell us? I will pass it on to my co-workers and hopefully we can avoid stupidity on both ends.
Take care and God bless you, bro!