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Thread: OC at the J&J Gun Show at the Deltaplex

  1. #1
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    OC at the J&J Gun Show at the Deltaplex

    Well, got the opportunity to visit the new gun & knife show in the Deltaplex, and was quite pleased. Parking was orderly, paid our $5 to get in, AND, most importantly, lawful carry was allowed.

    Many well stocked booths, with something for everyone (unless you were looking for Pakistani incense or funnel cakes). Only a few booths selling toys I could have done without. Airsoft doesn't belong at a gun & knife show, in my opinion. You opinion may differ.

    Everything was well laid out with generous aisles between rows, great lighting.

    Only down point was a comment at the gate (which I did not hear about until after I went through the show) that lawfully carried sidearms must be concealed. Not only is that absurd, but potentially incorrect, as one may argue that the Deltaplex is an entertainment facility. If so, lawful carry would only be OC with a CPL, and no carry without. Nevertheless, no one said anything about my exposed weapon after I took my jacket off- it was getting a little tropical.

    All in all, a fabulous first showing for J&J.

    After we left there, Steel Magnolia suggested we trot down to Wyoming to check out the former tenants of the Deltaplex show.

    Took a while to find it; got some bad info that it was in the old Studio 28 theater facility. Wrong. It was in the back of a little strip mall in an old fabric store. Parking was a zoo; people were literally parking in the driveways, choking the access down to one lane. I'm surprised that the Wyoming Fire Department didn't shut them down; no way they could get a fire truck or rescue unit anywhere near the front door. Parking in the aisles was also 3 deep; cars were literally trapped between other vehicles, and had no other recourse other then to wait for whoever blocked them to finish their shopping.

    Outside the front door was a large sign claiming that the buying & selling of firearms in the parking lot was 'illegal'. I'd love to see a cite on that; I believe it to be an empty, bogus and childish attempt to interfere with free trade. I call BS, unless they can show a state law prohibiting it. A city ordinance does not cut it; preemption takes care of that.

    Since there was no legitimate place to park, and I wasn't willing to take the risk of my vehicle getting trapped between two bozos, or worse, we decided to get out of the area as quickly as possible. It may have been gun nirvana in the old fabric store, but I wasn't taking any chances.

    I recommend that next time they find a legitimate venue that can accommodate the inevitable crowds, instead of some old strip mall fabric store. I was embarrassed for them.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  2. #2
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Well, got the opportunity to visit the new gun & knife show in the Deltaplex, and was quite pleased. Parking was orderly, paid our $5 to get in, AND, most importantly, lawful carry was allowed.

    Many well stocked booths, with something for everyone (unless you were looking for Pakistani incense or funnel cakes). Only a few booths selling toys I could have done without. Airsoft doesn't belong at a gun & knife show, in my opinion. You opinion may differ.

    Everything was well laid out with generous aisles between rows, great lighting.

    Only down point was a comment at the gate (which I did not hear about until after I went through the show) that lawfully carried sidearms must be concealed. Not only is that absurd, but potentially incorrect, as one may argue that the Deltaplex is an entertainment facility. If so, lawful carry would only be OC with a CPL, and no carry without. Nevertheless, no one said anything about my exposed weapon after I took my jacket off- it was getting a little tropical.

    All in all, a fabulous first showing for J&J.

    After we left there, Steel Magnolia suggested we trot down to Wyoming to check out the former tenants of the Deltaplex show.

    Took a while to find it; got some bad info that it was in the old Studio 28 theater facility. Wrong. It was in the back of a little strip mall in an old fabric store. Parking was a zoo; people were literally parking in the driveways, choking the access down to one lane. I'm surprised that the Wyoming Fire Department didn't shut them down; no way they could get a fire truck or rescue unit anywhere near the front door. Parking in the aisles was also 3 deep; cars were literally trapped between other vehicles, and had no other recourse other then to wait for whoever blocked them to finish their shopping.

    Outside the front door was a large sign claiming that the buying & selling of firearms in the parking lot was 'illegal'. I'd love to see a cite on that; I believe it to be an empty, bogus and childish attempt to interfere with free trade. I call BS, unless they can show a state law prohibiting it. A city ordinance does not cut it; preemption takes care of that.

    Since there was no legitimate place to park, and I wasn't willing to take the risk of my vehicle getting trapped between two bozos, or worse, we decided to get out of the area as quickly as possible. It may have been gun nirvana in the old fabric store, but I wasn't taking any chances.

    I recommend that next time they find a legitimate venue that can accommodate the inevitable crowds, instead of some old strip mall fabric store. I was embarrassed for them.
    I'm glad I didn't go to the new location on 28th street; I didn't know the old venue also had a gun show. The studio 28 location would have probably been more logical, but Jack Loeks hates firearms... in fact, studio 28 posted a sign that matched the signage referred to in MCL 28.425o.

    Regarding the deltaplex venue and cc: I believe we had a thread here a few years ago regarding the issue of an entertainment facility. I believe that the consensus was that it failed in regards to the seating required since the venue for the gun show is separate from the arena. As I recall the arena and the show area are actually separate buildings. This information came from Delta Plex management and KCSD if my memory is correct. However, the question would be eliminated if they allowed lawful OC instead of following the "out of sight, out of mind philosophy". My only question is why have them scheduled for the same weekend?
    Last edited by DrTodd; 02-25-2012 at 07:28 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  3. #3
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Did you OC at the Delta Plex?
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  4. #4
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Did you OC at the Delta Plex?
    Initially, I'd call it 'semi' OC; Waist length leather flight type jacket doesn't really cover. Shucked off the jacket halfway through; no one said a thing.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I'm glad I didn't go to the new location on 28th street; I didn't know the old venue also had a gun show. The studio 28 location would have probably been more logical, but Jack Loeks hates firearms... in fact, studio 28 posted a sign that matched the signage referred to in MCL 28.425o.

    Regarding the deltaplex venue and cc: I believe we had a thread here a few years ago regarding the issue of an entertainment facility. I believe that the consensus was that it failed in regards to the seating required since the venue for the gun show is separate from the arena. As I recall the arena and the show area are actually separate buildings. This information came from Delta Plex management and KCSD if my memory is correct. However, the question would be eliminated if they allowed lawful OC instead of following the "out of sight, out of mind philosophy". My only question is why have them scheduled for the same weekend?
    I think they were having a contest to see who's was 'bigger'. Actually, one could speculate that Deltaplex had the venue available on this date for a gun show, and invited J&J to fill the bill. I don't know the rational why someone would choose to relocate to such a less than optimal location as a former fabric store in the back of a strip mall in a seedy little town like Wyoming.....

    Since the arena and the exhibition hall are physically in the same building, one 'could' make the argument either way. OC would be safer, JIC.
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  6. #6
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Bear View Post
    Well, got the opportunity to visit the new gun & knife show in the Deltaplex, and was quite pleased. Parking was orderly, paid our $5 to get in, AND, most importantly, lawful carry was allowed.

    Many well stocked booths, with something for everyone (unless you were looking for Pakistani incense or funnel cakes). Only a few booths selling toys I could have done without. Airsoft doesn't belong at a gun & knife show, in my opinion. You opinion may differ.

    Everything was well laid out with generous aisles between rows, great lighting.

    Only down point was a comment at the gate (which I did not hear about until after I went through the show) that lawfully carried sidearms must be concealed. Not only is that absurd, but potentially incorrect, as one may argue that the Deltaplex is an entertainment facility. If so, lawful carry would only be OC with a CPL, and no carry without. Nevertheless, no one said anything about my exposed weapon after I took my jacket off- it was getting a little tropical.

    All in all, a fabulous first showing for J&J.

    After we left there, Steel Magnolia suggested we trot down to Wyoming to check out the former tenants of the Deltaplex show.

    Took a while to find it; got some bad info that it was in the old Studio 28 theater facility. Wrong. It was in the back of a little strip mall in an old fabric store. Parking was a zoo; people were literally parking in the driveways, choking the access down to one lane. I'm surprised that the Wyoming Fire Department didn't shut them down; no way they could get a fire truck or rescue unit anywhere near the front door. Parking in the aisles was also 3 deep; cars were literally trapped between other vehicles, and had no other recourse other then to wait for whoever blocked them to finish their shopping.

    Outside the front door was a large sign claiming that the buying & selling of firearms in the parking lot was 'illegal'. I'd love to see a cite on that; I believe it to be an empty, bogus and childish attempt to interfere with free trade. I call BS, unless they can show a state law prohibiting it. A city ordinance does not cut it; preemption takes care of that.

    Since there was no legitimate place to park, and I wasn't willing to take the risk of my vehicle getting trapped between two bozos, or worse, we decided to get out of the area as quickly as possible. It may have been gun nirvana in the old fabric store, but I wasn't taking any chances.

    I recommend that next time they find a legitimate venue that can accommodate the inevitable crowds, instead of some old strip mall fabric store. I was embarrassed for them.
    Just because a place is an entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more does not necessarily mean you need a CPL to OC there. Reference 750.234d
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  7. #7
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    For an Entertainment Facility, the only time the CPL is required, IMO, is when both the following are met:

    A) You're carrying concealed, and
    B) You're exempt under 28.425o

  8. #8
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Just because a place is an entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more does not necessarily mean you need a CPL to OC there. Reference 750.234d
    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXDacp View Post
    For an Entertainment Facility, the only time the CPL is required, IMO, is when both the following are met:

    A) You're carrying concealed, and
    B) You're exempt under 28.425o
    True

    I actually went to the Delta Plex today... OC.
    I was never asked if I had a firearm. I did see a table set up with a sign "Firearm Check" but, since I thought that my firearm was working fine, I passed up the opportunity to have mine "checked".
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  9. #9
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    lol, good one

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