Living with the threat of Public Menace charge and other concerns

amlevin · Feb 26, 2012

hermannr said:
I have never presented my CPL during a traffic stop, and I have never been asked for one, even when my pistol has been holstered in plain sight, (of course, I don't get stopped very often either).

Chances are he already knew if you had a CPL or not. When you renew your vehicle registration you have to provide the D/L# of all registered owners. Your CPL is cross referenced to your D/L in the State system. If he had a Mobile Data Terminal and keyed in your License Number before approaching your car, all that info could be right there for him to see.

After the recent shooting of the State Trooper near Bremerton/Port Orchard I would expect to see more caution on their part.

gogodawgs · Feb 26, 2012

1245A Defender said:
I wish someone would post the excerpts from daves book so we could all understand how his advise is going wrong.

the printing warning sounds like advice for florida or texas,,, and what is "public menace"?
the "on your person" in a car has been debated and found wrong, often, right here..

Ive thought about buying it myself, but 10 bucks for a booklet, written by a OC only guy didnt seem right for me.

Note: Last PP page 11 and top of page 12.

Dave_pro2a · Feb 26, 2012

gogodawgs said:
Note: Last PP page 11 and top of page 12.

View attachment 8026 View attachment 8027

Careful. Workman hates fair use... he might sue you

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...e-stuff-dope&p=1190406&viewfull=1#post1190406

gogodawgs · Feb 26, 2012

NavyLCDR said:
Wow. Some of that reads like a Bellingham Police Department training bulletin. I had no ideas of my "responsibilities" as a CPL holder.

To be fair, there is more in the chapter about open carry...I do think that Dave after getting to know a few of us has moved his opinion from being against to being neutral.

MSG Laigaie · Feb 26, 2012

NavyMike said:
He said 'It's against the law to not have it on your person, when in the car, and he could write me a citation for that".
I asked him which RCW stated that it was illegal, to which he responded "It's not a written law it's a common sense law".

!

Call the Gods and beg forgiveness, if they start writing citations for "Common Sense Violations". Can you imagine the sheer number of government officials that would be arrested. It boggles the bloody mind.

1245A Defender · Feb 26, 2012

well,,,

gogodawgs said:
Note: Last PP page 11 and top of page 12.

View attachment 8026 View attachment 8027

thanx gogo,,, but it looks like words that would have been wrote in 1985!!!
the OP says the same incorrect drivel is in the 2011 revision!
What does a guy gotta do to get a real revision oround here?

can you post en excerpt about car carry?

gogodawgs · Feb 26, 2012

1245A Defender said:
thanx gogo,,, but it looks like words that would have been wrote in 1985!!!
the OP says the same incorrect drivel is in the 2011 revision!
What does a guy gotta do to get a real revision oround here?

can you post en excerpt about car carry?

Nah, I think I will let you buy his book. It's on sale at Champion Arms in Kent (shameless plug)

1245A Defender · Feb 26, 2012

well,,,,

gogodawgs said:
Nah, I think I will let you buy his book. It's on sale at Champion Arms in Kent (shameless plug)

the shamless plug is fine,,, Everybody should go to champion arms and spend some/lots of money!

would you actually advise anybody to buy/study/use the advice printed in daves book?
do you really think "I" would learn anything of value by reading daves book?
has daves book actually been revised in any meaningfull way? since yours says 240,000 CPL holders?

my questions here can be ignored,,, I dont want to start a pi$$ing contest among friends.
I already know the answers, and can form my own opinion of the book.

gogodawgs · Feb 26, 2012

1245A Defender said:
the shamless plug is fine,,, Everybody should go to champion arms and spend some/lots of money!

would you actually advise anybody to buy/study/use the advice printed in daves book?
do you really think "I" would learn anything of value by reading daves book?
has daves book actually been revised in any meaningfull way? since yours says 240,000 CPL holders?

my questions here can be ignored,,, I dont want to start a pi$$ing contest among friends.
I already know the answers, and can form my own opinion of the book.

It has good information in it and it has 'serial misinformation' in it.....
Would you learn anything....perhaps not.
Would others.....perhaps.

RioDio · Feb 26, 2012

There is no right to carry openly in Washington State. Rights are irrevocable. But until RCW 9.41.270 is revised and the interpretive language is removed, any one of sketchy public or pushy LEO or activist judge can get you into a heap of trouble. So please, let's just stop pretending and not keep hoping that we get lucky every time we OC.

1245A Defender · Feb 26, 2012

Well,,,

Please read,,, Washington State Constitution, artical 1, section 24.
The right of the Individual Citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impared...

You might also familiarize yourself with the 2nd amendment of The United States of America...

sudden valley gunner · Feb 26, 2012

RioDio said:
There is no right to carry openly in Washington State. Rights are irrevocable. But until RCW 9.41.270 is revised and the interpretive language is removed, any one of sketchy public or pushy LEO or activist judge can get you into a heap of trouble. So please, let's just stop pretending and not keep hoping that we get lucky every time we OC.

Our State Constitution has stronger wording in many opinions than the federal constitution. Our human, fundamental right to bear arms shall not be impaired. Let's also not forget that the 9th and 10th amendments preserve rights not "enumerated" in the the constitution. Yep our rights are not "numbered".

Since they license and call CC a privilege that would leave OC as the only way to bear arms without our right being impaired. I personally feel a CC license is also an impairment or infringement, and would prefer what some are calling constitutional carry, no license at all.

I agree rights are irrevocable, but that hasn't stopped the state ( I use this word for government in general both on federal and local levels) from doing exactly that. Look how they have watered down all our fundamental rights, in the fallacious rational of "state interests".

I like how Workman stated in a story at a meet when someone from the East coat asked him "They let you carry guns here?"
His reply "They don't let us do anything". That was a great response and one we need to remember when it comes to all our fundamental rights.

gogodawgs · Feb 26, 2012

RioDio said:
There is no right to carry openly in Washington State. Rights are irrevocable. But until RCW 9.41.270 is revised and the interpretive language is removed, any one of sketchy public or pushy LEO or activist judge can get you into a heap of trouble. So please, let's just stop pretending and not keep hoping that we get lucky every time we OC.

1245A Defender said:
Please read,,, Washington State Constitution, artical 1, section 24.
The right of the Individual Citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impared...

You might also familiarize yourself with the 2nd amendment of The United States of America...

RioDio,

Welcome to the forum. Read the forum. Read the case law; Casad, Sieyes, Spencer, et al
Carry of a firearm is a right, it is irrevocable. Read my thread South Sound OC Report either I am the luckiest man alive or it is legal.
Article I Section 24 is a very powerful affirmation of a fundamental right. Might I say it is stronger than the 2nd Amendment.

RioDio · Feb 26, 2012

1245A Defender said:
Please read,,, Washington State Constitution, artical 1, section 24.
The right of the Individual Citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impared...

You might also familiarize yourself with the 2nd amendment of The United States of America...

The other side of this issue always argues that because CC is permitted, it meets the constitutional requirement. That doesn't get us any closer to answering the OC question. On top of that, we have this statute spelling out OC is illegal at anybody's whim. That's not a right by any definition.

RioDio · Feb 26, 2012

gogodawgs said:
RioDio,

Welcome to the forum. Read the forum. Read the case law; Casad, Sieyes, Spencer, et al
Carry of a firearm is a right, it is irrevocable. Read my thread South Sound OC Report either I am the luckiest man alive or it is legal.
Article I Section 24 is a very powerful affirmation of a fundamental right. Might I say it is stronger than the 2nd Amendment.

I'm glad you've experienced successful results from your experiments. But this comes right back to the problem of making decisions based upon what you believe should-or-should-not be legal, and making recommendations based upon those opinions. Until the law explicitly states that open carry is permitted, you are going to have the problem where every other citizen, cop or whoever has a different answer to the question, 'Is WA an OC state?'.

sudden valley gunner · Feb 26, 2012

RioDio said:
The other side of this issue always argues that because CC is permitted, it meets the constitutional requirement. That doesn't get us any closer to answering the OC question. On top of that, we have this statute spelling out OC is illegal at anybody's whim. That's not a right by any definition.

How is licensing a right meeting the requirement? And I will call BS on anyway who states so.

There is no statute making it illegal at a whim. Cite it and read it carefully before you do. We have studied this statute hard on this board so choose your words and thoughts on it carefully.

You do realize that it isn't illegal to wear red shirts, so you can wear them and that is how our legal system works? We don't need things "spelled" out for us on what to do that is contrary to a free society based on liberty. The mere fact that some don't like it is simply irrelevant.

I understand your fears, you either will have the courage to OC or you won't.
Rosa Parks had the courage to sit where she wanted despite it being illegal, and made many feel alarmed. But didn't it "warrant alarm"? No it didn't and any prosecutor or judge or jury that says OC warrants alarm because it makes people feel uncomfortable are people who don't deserve to live in a free society.

1245A Defender · Feb 26, 2012

well,,,

RioDio said:
The other side of this issue always argues that because CC is permitted, it meets the constitutional requirement. That doesn't get us any closer to answering the OC question. On top of that, we have this statute spelling out OC is illegal at anybody's whim. That's not a right by any definition.

when concealled carry is allowed with a permit,,, it becomes a privilage, not a right.

the violation of 9.41.270 that you worry about is not dependent on the whim of others,
it is dependent on the actions of the open carrier only!

We have a right to carry a gun,,, others do not have a right to feel safe, or to not feel intimidated.
A gun carried in a belt holster does not violate 9.41.270 even though it might upset the sensabilities of other persons.

1245A Defender · Feb 26, 2012

well,,,

RioDio said:
I'm glad you've experienced successful results from your experiments. But this comes right back to the problem of making decisions based upon what you believe should-or-should-not be legal, and making recommendations based upon those opinions. Until the law explicitly states that open carry is permitted, you are going to have the problem where every other citizen, cop or whoever has a different answer to the question, 'Is WA an OC state?'.

We,, residents of washington,,, if fact residents of ANY state have the Right to open carry in 29 states,, no license required!
Not Even ONE of those states have a LAW that ALLOWS open carry!!!

WinchesterModel12 · Feb 26, 2012

You can choose to tuck your tail and abide by what you have read in a book. I choose to "press my luck" by OC every chance I get. I have read the RCW like many others and we know what it says. The great part about us Americans is we have that right to choose so many things. I choose OC while others choose not to OC. Whatever you choose keep supporting 2A rights, because so many "people" are trying to take away or limit that right.
Good luck with your choice!

RioDio · Feb 26, 2012

1245A Defender said:
We,, residents of washington,,, if fact residents of ANY state have the Right to open carry in 29 states,, no license required!
Not Even ONE of those states have a LAW that ALLOWS open carry!!!

Does this come back to the logic that everything is legal unless its expressly illegal? Are citizens only expected to know the common sense laws? In other words, if I get charged with violating a statute of which I wasn't familiar - will my ignorance of it get the charges dropped?

BTW, if you couldn't tell from my posts - I'm in favor of OC - and I truly am learning a lot from all of these thoughtful posts and about some of my misconceptions. Thanks a lot for your great input!

Living with the threat of Public Menace charge and other concerns

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