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Thread: Read this OC "opinon" piece and try not to get mad

  1. #1
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Read this OC "opinion" piece and try not to get mad

    snip-

    He said that in his 20 years as a policeman, “we’ve had very few problems and concealed-weapons holders. It’s not a big issue.” But open-carry is different, he adds. For example, a law enforcement officer openly carries a weapon for its “intimidation factor. In law enforcement, that’s the message you send.”



    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/utes/53...-open.html.csp
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 02-26-2012 at 06:16 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I'll bet if you read his state's laws (MAYBE even his police department policies), you'll find that intimidation by law enforcement is illegal...
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Out of sight out of mind?

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Under current law, if she remains silent, she can be cited with disorderly conduct and formally charged by prosecutors.
    Seriously if you exercise your 4th amendment right to remain silent it's disorderly conduct?
    If I were to see someone with a .45 strapped to his hip, I’d have no idea who that person is and what his intentions are and would get out of there quick.
    Doubtful
    you’re a clerk at a 7-Eleven, it’s 2 a.m. and a guy walks in wearing a holstered gun. The first thing you’re going to do is call the cops.
    Clearly anytime someone OCs in a 7-11 the police will be called. Every time.
    “Is this person’s intent to do harm, or is he just carrying a gun? It puts police officers in a very awkward position,” he said.
    So someone carry a concealed pistol will not mean any harm. Someone openly carrying a holstered pistol is a whole different story. Because lets face it a lot of criminals open carry.
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 02-26-2012 at 01:46 PM.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Really? So an LEOs purpose is intimidation of citizens by open carry of a lethal weapon... Could we be further removed from "Peace Officers"?

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Ms. Peg McEntee is noticeably deficient in her knowledge of the Utah Code. Re her "...A person has a gun on her hip, and a cop wants to ask her some questions about it. Under current law, if she remains silent, she can be cited with disorderly conduct and formally charged by prosecutors..."
    None of the elements of the offense are present in her scenario.

    2010 Utah Code
    Title 76 - Utah Criminal Code
    Chapter 09 - Offenses Against Public Order and Decency
    76-9-102 - Disorderly conduct.

    (1) A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if:
    (a) he refuses to comply with the lawful order of the police to move from a public place, or knowingly creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition, by any act which serves no legitimate purpose;

    OR

    (b) intending to cause public inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
    (i) engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous, or threatening behavior;
    (ii) makes unreasonable noises in a public place ;
    (iii) makes unreasonable noises in a private place which can be heard in a public place; or
    (iv) obstructs vehicular or pedestrian traffic.
    (2) "Public place," for the purpose of this section, means any place to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes but is not limited to streets, highways, and the common areas of schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport facilities, and shops.
    (3) Disorderly conduct is a class C misdemeanor if the offense continues after a request by a person to desist. Otherwise it is an infraction.
    {formatting altered by poster for clarity}

    Physically offensive is Not the same as "morally offensive", to be physically offensive it must involve such substances or behavior as creates a physical danger, i.e. “...setting off ‘stink bombs,’ strewing garbage, nails, or noxious substances in public passages, turning off lights in an occupied theater, and an endless variety of public annoyances..."
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 02-26-2012 at 03:08 PM.

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    Open carry law would cause fear among unarmed. hmmm, theres yer sign

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    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences of attending too much liberty than those attending to small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

    And with a great deal of certainity I believe Jefferson meant that part of that attending too much liberty meant that a LEO or agent of the State has no business questioning a citizen who is keeping and bearing arms in a lawful manner. And by inconveniences Thomas Jefferson meant that LEOs as well as other citizens would have go about their business not knowing the intent of the citizen with the .45 cal handgun strapped to their hip. That is Jefferson idea of "ordered liberty." The LEO in the article has a more draconian view of liberty.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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    Officers

    A majority officers I work with here in Utah think Burbank is kinda out there. On that and several other points. For what it is worth.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by stargateranch View Post
    A majority officers I work with here in Utah think Burbank is kinda out there. On that and several other points. For what it is worth.
    Well on this one she (and Cheif Burbank) really makes herself look foolish. Opinion is just that but at the least she could of tried to base hers a little more in fact and not so much fantasy of the mind.

    Oh well.

    * Welcome to the MI forum stargateranch. Here you will find some of the most well informed OCers in the country I dare say.
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 02-26-2012 at 11:21 PM. Reason: clarity
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    But when the right to bear arms comes into conflict with a law enforcement officer’s ability to protect the public, we have a problem.
    Well there's her first problem...

  12. #12
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Open carry law would cause fear among unarmed. hmmm, theres yer sign
    They, the currently "unarmed", should be armed too! Problem solved.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargateranch View Post
    A majority officers I work with here in Utah think Burbank is kinda out there. On that and several other points. For what it is worth.
    Not just among OFFICERS!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargateranch View Post
    A majority officers I work with here in Utah think Burbank is kinda out there. On that and several other points. For what it is worth.
    Glad to hear that. The quotes in the column did not show LEO in a positive light.

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    Whose fault would that be?

  16. #16
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargateranch View Post
    A majority officers I work with here in Utah think Burbank is kinda out there. On that and several other points. For what it is worth.
    Once again, it is the majority of officers permitting the minority of officers to remain amongst their ranks, against the majorities self interests.

    Remember, as far as the 'average citizen' is concerned, the Good Chief is relating 'fact' not opinion, even when he states that it is his opinion.

    The 'average citizen' venerates LE, even when shown with facts and figures that their veneration is not warranted.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Whenever they mention "i don't know who they are or their intentions",which I've heard a LEO say when requesting ID and being turned down legaly,they show how they would act if they were in a nation or state that didn't have God Given Rights like the U.S.. "I don't know who lives in that house or if they're doing something illegal" so they enter by kicking down the door(as in the U.S.S.R ,Cuba & China etc. etc.) to find a reason to arrest!Thats the STUPID Liberal(sheep)mindset that allows Tyrants and Dictators(government) to control at the end of a barrel! Obama and his usefull idiots(socialist for folks who blindly follow them,sheep) have been implimenting whatever they can for this purpose and the Dems,Libs and stupid folks blindly and ignorantly follow and believe they're doing it for "the poor and the kids"! It's an "evil" disease spread through the media,leftist colleges and public schools(propaganda,boiling a frog) for decades!WE THE PEOPLE NEED to WAKE UP! GOD HELP US! CARRY ON!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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