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Thread: Clarify the Title 18 Section 930 rule of Federal Facilities

  1. #1
    Regular Member StingMP9's Avatar
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    Clarify the Title 18 Section 930 rule of Federal Facilities

    I'm curious to the meaning of this as after a month of working next door to a Marine Recruiting station I finally noticed the Weapons prohibition sign (it is posted very low, on one but not the only common entrance to their office) that is located within a broad ground level office building in Troy. I have no reason to enter but I am also fairly certain that working next door to them doesn't mean I am prohibited by any proximity, just within their "facility" which is simply the suite they lease.

    Here is a link to the federal code that prohibits firearms in federal facilities:
    http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2010/...44/section930/


    Then what is the relevance to the last part I am reposting and bolded here, lawful carrying and lawful purposes?? :

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
    (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.

    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
    "Reason can never be popular. Passions and feelings can become popular, but reason will always remain the sole property of a few eminent individuals."
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  2. #2
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StingMP9 View Post
    I'm curious to the meaning of this as after a month of working next door to a Marine Recruiting station I finally noticed the Weapons prohibition sign (it is posted very low, on one but not the only common entrance to their office) that is located within a broad ground level office building in Troy. I have no reason to enter but I am also fairly certain that working next door to them doesn't mean I am prohibited by any proximity, just within their "facility" which is simply the suite they lease.

    Here is a link to the federal code that prohibits firearms in federal facilities:
    http://law.justia.com/codes/us/2010/...44/section930/


    Then what is the relevance to the last part I am reposting and bolded here, lawful carrying and lawful purposes?? :

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
    (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.

    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
    It has been argued that this would allow legal CC/OC. I know that an attorney on MGO also believes that it may be an exception to the prohibition BUT emphatically states that his Postmaster disagrees. The question is: "Do YOU want to be the test case?"
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    the other ridiculous twist to no firearms being [supposedly] allowed in post offices is that one may ship a long gun through USPS
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  4. #4
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    If it is a building the Federal government is renting out (IE: The IRS Has an office in the Comerica Building in Downtown Detroit) -- it only applies to the area of the building the government is renting out. If there is a recruiting station in the mall, it'd only apply to the mall store/slot that hosts the recruiting station.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member StingMP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    It has been argued that this would allow legal CC/OC. I know that an attorney on MGO also believes that it may be an exception to the prohibition BUT emphatically states that his Postmaster disagrees. The question is: "Do YOU want to be the test case?"
    No test subject here. As I stated, I have no reason to enter the facility next door.
    "Reason can never be popular. Passions and feelings can become popular, but reason will always remain the sole property of a few eminent individuals."
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  6. #6
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StingMP9 View Post
    No test subject here. As I stated, I have no reason to enter the facility next door.
    I know... it was a Rhetorical Question for benefit of the readers. I should have made that more clear.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  8. #8
    Regular Member StingMP9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I know... it was a Rhetorical Question for benefit of the readers. I should have made that more clear.
    I now see that they don't even keep the Title 18 memo on that one entrance all the time. It is back down and it probably wasn't even up that long when I did finally see it. Maybe they are waiting on the drafted law change to 10 year penalty? LOL
    "Reason can never be popular. Passions and feelings can become popular, but reason will always remain the sole property of a few eminent individuals."
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StingMP9 View Post
    I now see that they don't even keep the Title 18 memo on that one entrance all the time. It is back down and it probably wasn't even up that long when I did finally see it. Maybe they are waiting on the drafted law change to 10 year penalty? LOL
    Interesting post in that I recently noticed that they have removed the signs at both of the post offices I frequent, too. hmmm
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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