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Thread: Voted this morrning...

  1. #1
    Regular Member Golden Eagle's Avatar
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    Voted this morrning...

    and for the second time I was confronted about my gun here in Schoolcraft township.
    This time they had a man there in uniform with a badge say after I voted "Don't you think that's a little inappropriate."
    I said "No what I'm doing is completely legal". Again he said "I know but it is inappropriate". I then walked it my car and realised I need his name and department and went back in. He was polite and said he was a code enforcement officer. (I thought with a badge?) He said I should just cover it up this isn't Texas. I told him I carry all over Kzoo not just here and I get a lot of positive comments. Again he repeated it's inappropriate in a polling place and I said we'll have to agree to disagree he agreed we shook hands and I left.

    I believe the lady in charge arranged for him to be there just for me. Should I arrange a meeting with her? I'll bet next time there will be no gun signs on this public building.

    I did get a new "I VOTED" sticker for my revolver.
    The news media plays politics more than the politicians do.

  2. #2
    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    Good on you, mate!

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    I believe a 'code enforcement officer' is township-hired; he has no 'general' authority, probably not MCOLES and doesn't have the authority to enforce non-township ordinances (not that you were violating any). He was harassing you outside of his authority. Your Township Supervisor is Don Ulsh (a Tea Party guy) and you may want to follow up with him.

    Just for kicks, I'm linking to the list of ordinances in Schoolcraft. The Township does have the power to regulate discharge, but not carry, transportation, sales etc. http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=14258

    Carry on

    J

  4. #4
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eagle View Post
    He said I should just cover it up this isn't Texas.
    Well, duh, no kidding. You can't OC in Texas! Shoulda told him that.
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." – William F. Buckley
    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Samuel Adams
    Wheels

  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eagle View Post
    ... they had a man there in uniform with a badge say after I voted "Don't you think that's a little inappropriate."
    ...said he was a code enforcement officer...
    So what is the Code for what is appropriate?

    Personally, I think it is inappropriate to hang around a polling place with a badge. That's intimidation, don't you know!
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  6. #6
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    I think it is inappropriate for an employee of a government to use his official position to lend an air of authority to his personal opinion.

    I suspect (not sure) that disciplinary action could be taken.

    I surely am of the opinion that disciplinary actions should be taken.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 02-28-2012 at 12:11 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  7. #7
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    Its more that appropriate. Its free speech, making a very powerful statement as you vote. Even the polling people liked when I put my "I Voted" sticker on my holster. One lady even mentioned, with a smile, that someone else had done the same thing this morning.

    Carrying a 5" M&P full size in a leg drop gets noticed. I should have brought the M1A.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 02-28-2012 at 12:45 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eagle View Post

    snip-

    I'll bet next time there will be no gun signs on this public building.
    can i ask where you vote? what type of building? school, township administrative building?
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

  9. #9
    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Why only one OCing?

    If the Code Enforcer saw 50 or more coming in and voting (at various times) while OCing, the "novelty" would wear off. Golden Eagle, would you be able to arrange for a lot more to come in and vote while OCing? I know I am asking you to do some work while I am just spouting off, but I bet this would change the dynamics.

  10. #10
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Apparently exercising more than one right at a time is inappropriate.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  11. #11
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    "Code Enforcement" officer? You mean the same guy that tells people their grass is getting too long, or they have too many junked cars on their property?

    I hope you laughed in his face.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Billy's Avatar
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    Good afternoon ~

    My wife and I cast our votes this afternoon at the Butterfield Township hall (Missaukee County) while I openly carried my properly holstered pistol.

    Upon walking in the building there was posted a sign prohibiting weapons inside the premises.

    I was sporting my military issued O.D. green jacket with U.S. flag and my old NAVSPECWAR unit patch. Was wearing a very nice brown-leather holster. As I walked into the voting area I spoke with one of our neighbors who was supervising the voting and explained that the sign posted violated Michigan's Firearm Preemption Law and was therefore unlawful (Ref: MCL 123.1102, which states in part, "A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms").

    I also told the folks in attendance of Article I, Section 6 of Michigan's Constitution: "Every person has the right to bear arms for defense of himself and the state" and that it was perfectly legal for me to be there armed with all lawful intent.

    I want to deliver a hard-copy with some info (including the phone number to MSP's Executive Division) to the township hall so the town board members can get educated and rectify the matter.

    Both me and my wife voted for Mr. Ron Paul and upon leaving I met another fellow who voted Ron Paul also, as did his wife and two children.

    Take care folks...

    Respectfully,
    Billy

    -Combat veteran of U.S. Naval Special Warfare
    "Salvation is of the LORD." -Jonah ii. 9c [AV]

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    ---Jesus Christ the LORD, sent by the Father to effectually & fully SAVE poor,
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  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Well, duh, no kidding. You can't OC in Texas! Shoulda told him that.
    +1

  14. #14
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    My wife and I cast our votes this afternoon at the Butterfield Township hall (Missaukee County) while I openly carried my properly holstered pistol. Upon walking in the building there was posted a sign prohibiting weapons inside the premises.
    Does your Township Hall house a Court or court offices? Does any official court business happen within the Township Hall? Do Townships even have courts?

    http://courts.michigan.gov/scao/reso...ao15-model.doc
    Supreme Court Administrative Order 2001-1 states that weapons are not permitted in any courtroom, office, or other space used for official court business or by judicial employees unless the chief judge or other person designated by the chief judge has given prior approval consistent with the court's written policy. Each court is required to submit a written policy conforming with this order to the State Court Administrator for approval. Courts are encouraged to collaborate with other entities in shared facilities and, where appropriate, to work with local funding units in developing the policy, which may be a separate plan or part of a general security program.
    Unfortunately most chief judges seem to interpret the above as meaning they can ban firearms in the entire building where one of the listed areas is housed.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  15. #15
    Regular Member Billy's Avatar
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    That's a negative to to questions #1-2, Mr. Bronson.

    This township hall doesn't have a court room. It's a small meeting hall out in the middle of the sticks.

    Take care, sir.

    Respectfully,
    Billy

    -Combat veteran of U.S. Naval Special Warfare
    "Salvation is of the LORD." -Jonah ii. 9c [AV]

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and
    believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall
    not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

    ---Jesus Christ the LORD, sent by the Father to effectually & fully SAVE poor,
    needy, wretched sinners by His own sovereign free grace and by His perfect
    righteousness charged to our accounts! (John v. 24, KJV)

  16. #16
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    A few things come to mind, you will have to decide if they apply:

    Quote Originally Posted by MCL 600.1825
    Arrest; privileged persons.

    Sec. 1825.

    (1) Every elector is privileged from arrest while going to, attending, and returning from elections in all cases except for treason, felony, or breach of the peace.

    ...
    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-600-1825

    Quote Originally Posted by MCL 168.932
    Prohibited conduct; violation as felony.

    Sec. 932.

    A person who violates 1 or more of the following subdivisions is guilty of a felony:

    (a) A person shall not attempt, by means of bribery, menace, or other corrupt means or device, either directly or indirectly, to influence an elector in giving his or her vote, or to deter the elector from, or interrupt the elector in giving his or her vote at any election held in this state.

    ...
    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-168-932

    Quote Originally Posted by MCL 752.11
    Upholding or enforcing the law; duty of public officials.

    Sec. 1.

    Any public official, appointed or elected, who is responsible for enforcing or upholding any law of this state and who wilfully and knowingly fails to uphold or enforce the law with the result that any person's legal rights are denied is guilty of a misdemeanor.
    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-752-11

  17. #17
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    Voted at 3:30 today.....all of 178 people had bothered to inconvenience themself to vote. I know it was a little early, I know alot of people have JOBS and arn't out till after 5pm, I am just amazed that people don't participate in the political process..... one that alot of people have died defending our right to do so. Its a real shame. Oh, and speaking of shame..... I DID NOT OC at the polling place, a local VFW hall. My bad, I turned and burned out the door so quickly when I got home (changed clothes) I left my pistol on my dresser........major fail. That wont happen again.

  18. #18
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Eagle View Post
    He said I should just cover it up this isn't Texas.
    As was stated, TX doesn't allow OC and Texas prohibits CC "On the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress."
    -http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/texas.pdf
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  19. #19
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    How is that legal?

  20. #20
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    Let me restate that.

    How would one argue against such a charge?

  21. #21
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    OC'ed at Royal Oak High School to vote in the Primary. No issues.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy View Post
    That's a negative to to questions #1-2, Mr. Bronson.

    This township hall doesn't have a court room. It's a small meeting hall out in the middle of the sticks.

    Take care, sir.

    Respectfully,
    Billy

    -Combat veteran of U.S. Naval Special Warfare
    did that sign appear to be up all the time or was it just up for voting? (not that it is legal in either case)
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  23. #23
    Regular Member Billy's Avatar
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    I'm fairly certain that the unlawful signage was posted following a knee-jerk reaction to the last time I voted at that location, this 'cause I know of no other men or women in these parts that exercise their rights to open-carry.

    I trust the follow-up letter sent to the township board members will prove helpful.

    Take care, sir.

    Respectfully,
    Billy

    -Combat veteran of U.S. Naval Special Warfare
    "Salvation is of the LORD." -Jonah ii. 9c [AV]

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and
    believeth on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall
    not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

    ---Jesus Christ the LORD, sent by the Father to effectually & fully SAVE poor,
    needy, wretched sinners by His own sovereign free grace and by His perfect
    righteousness charged to our accounts! (John v. 24, KJV)

  24. #24
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken56 View Post
    Voted at 3:30 today.....all of 178 people had bothered to inconvenience themself to vote. I know it was a little early, I know alot of people have JOBS and arn't out till after 5pm, I am just amazed that people don't participate in the political process..... one that alot of people have died defending our right to do so. Its a real shame. Oh, and speaking of shame..... I DID NOT OC at the polling place, a local VFW hall. My bad, I turned and burned out the door so quickly when I got home (changed clothes) I left my pistol on my dresser........major fail. That wont happen again.
    You are aware that it is a PRIMARY election, an election in which party members select candidates for an election. (Yes, I know MI has an "Open Primary")
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  25. #25
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    I say, if you don't vote, you shouldnt get your tax refund check that year.

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