Ohio school shootings

Captain Nemo · Feb 28, 2012

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-na-nn-second-death-ohio-20120228,0,3920602.story

This can't happen. There are federal and state laws that forbid a minor from possessing a firearm without adult supervision. There are federal and state laws that forbid firearms in schools except for law enforcement and certain programs. There is federal and state law that forbids carry of loaded firearms within 1000feet of school property unless licensed. Yeah, and the sky is falling and the earth is flat. Everybody wants to blame the symptoms and not the cause, world wide social degradation.

Herr Heckler Koch · Feb 28, 2012

Captain Nemo said:
Everybody wants to blame the symptoms and not the cause, world wide social degradation.

How do we slow, stop and reverse "world wide social degradation"? How do we do that when experienced citizens with years of acute vision are denigrated for just that vision?

Bushmaster · Feb 28, 2012

Isn't this already posted in the "No need for a gun?" thread ?

I don't imagine that to many people who attend school would likely carry a gun even if it was legal. What are the odds that someone who did carry at school (if it were legal) would be in the position to make something like this not happen? I mean seriously why do the people here have to take every sad incedent and turn it into agenda ? just makes you sound like the anti's.

Not long ago there was a pic posted here of a truck with a sticker in reference to him having ccw and not to mess with him, I think everyone who posted more or less went on to say how he should remove it and how he makes everyone who's progun look bad so on so forth.....you are all bent on your rights and seems you don't like it when others try to take your rights yet you bag on some red necks truck who happens to be exercising them same rights... whats up with you people ?

Herr Heckler Koch · Feb 28, 2012

Bushmaster said:
Isn't this already posted in the "No need for a gun?" thread ?

I don't imagine that to many people who attend school would likely carry a gun even if it was legal. What are the odds that someone who did carry at school (if it were legal) would be in the position to make something like this not happen? I mean seriously why do the people here have to take every sad incedent and turn it into agenda ? just makes you sound like the anti's.

And so it goes, swirling around the oubliette trap...

Here, watch this http://constitution.hillsdale.edu/page.aspx?pid=873

Captain Nemo · Feb 28, 2012

Sorry you can't see my hidden message Bushmaster.

bigdaddy1 · Feb 28, 2012

Bushmaster said:
Isn't this already posted in the "No need for a gun?" thread ?

I don't imagine that to many people who attend school would likely carry a gun even if it was legal. What are the odds that someone who did carry at school (if it were legal) would be in the position to make something like this not happen? I mean seriously why do the people here have to take every sad incedent and turn it into agenda ? just makes you sound like the anti's.

Not long ago there was a pic posted here of a truck with a sticker in reference to him having ccw and not to mess with him, I think everyone who posted more or less went on to say how he should remove it and how he makes everyone who's progun look bad so on so forth.....you are all bent on your rights and seems you don't like it when others try to take your rights yet you bag on some red necks truck who happens to be exercising them same rights... whats up with you people ?

In this particular case, the students (high school) would not be able to carry, the teachers and staff could. Sad as it is this is one of those "I told you so" moments that are becoming more common. When the Federal Government made this law (GFSZ), many said it would not deter anyone with the intent of harm, and that has been proven way too many times. As much as the law makers would like to legislate safety, it simply cant be done. The responsibility rests on your own shoulders, to expect someone else to protect you is not realistic. Unfortunately when something like this happens the knee jerk reaction is to create more laws and have heavier restrictions so this cant happen again. They wont accept that its not the guns fault, but the deviant behind the trigger thats the problem.

VW_Factor · Feb 28, 2012

We're just going to have to ban students at school. That way students can't... Wait a minut...

Bushmaster · Feb 28, 2012

bigdaddy1 said:
In this particular case, the students (high school) would not be able to carry, the teachers and staff could. Sad as it is this is one of those "I told you so" moments that are becoming more common. When the Federal Government made this law (GFSZ), many said it would not deter anyone with the intent of harm, and that has been proven way too many times. As much as the law makers would like to legislate safety, it simply cant be done. The responsibility rests on your own shoulders, to expect someone else to protect you is not realistic. Unfortunately when something like this happens the knee jerk reaction is to create more laws and have heavier restrictions so this cant happen again. They wont accept that its not the guns fault, but the deviant behind the trigger thats the problem.

yeah I get it. that's not what I was/am getting at with my post but whatever.

Brendon .45 · Feb 28, 2012

Bushmaster said:
I don't imagine that to many people who attend school would likely carry a gun even if it was legal.

In Israel, teachers are required to be armed. They have reduced the number and severity of attacks at schools. Thailand has recently gone down the same path allowing teachers permits to get guns to protect their schools.

Here's some reading on the matter:
http://www.wnd.com/2009/03/91528/

and another:
"Even better, the government is giving away guns to teachers."

http://gunowners.org/op0218.htm

bigdaddy1 · Feb 28, 2012

Bushmaster said:
yeah I get it. that's not what I was/am getting at with my post but whatever.

Sorry if I didn't understand the inner meaning of your post, let me know what you were getting at.

davidmcbeth · Feb 28, 2012

Herr Heckler Koch said:
How do we slow, stop and reverse "world wide social degradation"?

More guns, of course !!! Really.

Its a sad story but it does not move me at all in respect to the need for more gun legislation.

amaixner · Feb 29, 2012

My tongue-in-cheek response: This event is completely unacceptable. Only properly trained and certified agents of the government, like the Ohio National Guard, are allowed to commit school shootings in Ohio.

Fast Ed · Feb 29, 2012

Sadly, even armed teachers would not have prevented this tragedy. It happened too quickly, with no warning. In fact, the closest teacher (unarmed) chased the shooter out of the school as soon as he realized what was going on, without fear for his own safety. As helpful as armed staff could have been at Columbine or Virginia Tech, this particular type of attack, swift, with little or no warning, cannot be stopped by having more guns in the school. Armed staff, although helpful under some circumstances, is not a panacea and should not be thought of as a way to eliminate these disasters. There is more work that needs to be done to determine why these kids think that a gun is the best answer to their problems when it is usually the worst.

Armed staff may have eliminate the need for a trial, by killing the kid on site, but they wouldn't have prevented the violence that had already taken place. We can speculate on the deterent effect of armed staff, but until we actually get rid of the GFSZ, that's all it is, speculation. One thing we do know, it's not the staff that are the bad guys. They're not the people shooting up schools. Even if we allowed them to arm themselves, we can assume that no more violence would take place than takes place now. I know the teachers at the school where my youngest kids attend pretty well. I can attest that they would most likely throw themselves in front of the kids to keep them safe from a shooter. I would love to give them the opportunity to shoot back should that ever occur.

Fast Ed

bigdaddy1 · Feb 29, 2012

Fast Ed said:
Sadly, even armed teachers would not have prevented this tragedy. It happened too quickly, with no warning. In fact, the closest teacher (unarmed) chased the shooter out of the school as soon as he realized what was going on, without fear for his own safety. As helpful as armed staff could have been at Columbine or Virginia Tech, this particular type of attack, swift, with little or no warning, cannot be stopped by having more guns in the school. Armed staff, although helpful under some circumstances, is not a panacea and should not be thought of as a way to eliminate these disasters. There is more work that needs to be done to determine why these kids think that a gun is the best answer to their problems when it is usually the worst.

Armed staff may have eliminate the need for a trial, by killing the kid on site, but they wouldn't have prevented the violence that had already taken place. We can speculate on the deterent effect of armed staff, but until we actually get rid of the GFSZ, that's all it is, speculation. One thing we do know, it's not the staff that are the bad guys. They're not the people shooting up schools. Even if we allowed them to arm themselves, we can assume that no more violence would take place than takes place now. I know the teachers at the school where my youngest kids attend pretty well. I can attest that they would most likely throw themselves in front of the kids to keep them safe from a shooter. I would love to give them the opportunity to shoot back should that ever occur.

Fast Ed

Have to disagree on point. If the teachers or other staff had been able to carry defensive weapons, and the perpetrator knew there may be guns inside he may not have attempted the assault. Carrying firearms is not always about defense, but also deterrence. I'm not saying some nut case wouldn't walk into a police station loaded for bear, but doubt he/she would do so without thinking they are going to be shot back at.

Bushmaster · Feb 29, 2012

bigdaddy1 said:
Have to disagree on point. If the teachers or other staff had been able to carry defensive weapons, and the perpetrator knew there may be guns inside he may not have attempted the assault. Carrying firearms is not always about defense, but also deterrence. I'm not saying some nut case wouldn't walk into a police station loaded for bear, but doubt he/she would do so without thinking they are going to be shot back at.

Having the right to carry a firearm doesn't stop thugs from doing what they do anymore then creating laws that limit the law abiding, seriously use your head. As you say yourself "may not have attempted the assualt". Just because you have the right to carry a weapon seriously does not stop the criminal from anything, yes they may think twice "IF" they know your carrying but that still won't always stop them. There will always be people killing other people no matter what the laws prevent us from doing or how well you think your protected from it.

Bushmaster · Feb 29, 2012

Brendon .45 said:
In Israel, teachers are required to be armed. They have reduced the number and severity of attacks at schools. Thailand has recently gone down the same path allowing teachers permits to get guns to protect their schools.

Here's some reading on the matter:
http://www.wnd.com/2009/03/91528/

and another:
"Even better, the government is giving away guns to teachers."

http://gunowners.org/op0218.htm

Again, "have reduced the number and severity" and this is ofcourse assuming that armed teachers have changed the result and not the number of mentals in the counrty. You cannot always stop crime from happening, get over it.

bigdaddy1 · Feb 29, 2012

Bushmaster said:
Having the right to carry a firearm doesn't stop thugs from doing what they do anymore then creating laws that limit the law abiding, seriously use your head. As you say yourself "may not have attempted the assualt". Just because you have the right to carry a weapon seriously does not stop the criminal from anything, yes they may think twice "IF" they know your carrying but that still won't always stop them. There will always be people killing other people no matter what the laws prevent us from doing or how well you think your protected from it.

Your right, people will continue to kill. Even if guns were never invented. So what's your point? You should re-read the part of my quote that I highlighted for you. There are no absolutes in life, and I did not state that if the kid involved in this shooting knew the staff could retaliate he would not still make the attempt. It may however deter some, and that is the idea. I carry a sidearm not with the intent of using it, but to have it if I need it. If the criminal DOESN'T know if your carrying, that is deterrence. Reading your statement it would seem you feel only criminals should have guns as law abiding citizens cant prevent anything. That may be your belief but I don't share your defeatist attitude.

oliverclotheshoff · Feb 29, 2012

Fast Ed said:
Sadly, even armed teachers would not have prevented this tragedy. It happened too quickly, with no warning. In fact, the closest teacher (unarmed) chased the shooter out of the school as soon as he realized what was going on, without fear for his own safety. As helpful as armed staff could have been at Columbine or Virginia Tech, this particular type of attack, swift, with little or no warning, cannot be stopped by having more guns in the school. Armed staff, although helpful under some circumstances, is not a panacea and should not be thought of as a way to eliminate these disasters. There is more work that needs to be done to determine why these kids think that a gun is the best answer to their problems when it is usually the worst.

Armed staff may have eliminate the need for a trial, by killing the kid on site, but they wouldn't have prevented the violence that had already taken place. We can speculate on the deterent effect of armed staff, but until we actually get rid of the GFSZ, that's all it is, speculation. One thing we do know, it's not the staff that are the bad guys. They're not the people shooting up schools. Even if we allowed them to arm themselves, we can assume that no more violence would take place than takes place now. I know the teachers at the school where my youngest kids attend pretty well. I can attest that they would most likely throw themselves in front of the kids to keep them safe from a shooter. I would love to give them the opportunity to shoot back should that ever occur.

Fast Ed

no warning my butt he posted it on his social media account (facebook twitter one of those)saying he was going to do it

you must of missed that part of the story

bigdaddy1 · Feb 29, 2012

Bushmaster said:
Again, "have reduced the number and severity" and this is ofcourse assuming that armed teachers have changed the result and not the number of mentals in the counrty. You cannot always stop crime from happening, get over it.

I guess this proves my point. No need to continue our debate

Bushmaster · Mar 3, 2012

bigdaddy1 said:
Your right, people will continue to kill. Even if guns were never invented. So what's your point? You should re-read the part of my quote that I highlighted for you. There are no absolutes in life, and I did not state that if the kid involved in this shooting knew the staff could retaliate he would not still make the attempt. It may however deter some, and that is the idea. I carry a sidearm not with the intent of using it, but to have it if I need it. If the criminal DOESN'T know if your carrying, that is deterrence. Reading your statement it would seem you feel only criminals should have guns as law abiding citizens cant prevent anything. That may be your belief but I don't share your defeatist attitude.

First if you don't know my point why are you trying to disagree with it ?
My point is, constantly posting things that could have had a differen't outcome, if someone their had a gun, is not better then, an anti-gun person running around saying, if we had stricter laws this may not have happend.

I carry a sidearm everday same as you. My belief likely isn't much differen't then yours. But whatever take it as you like.

Ohio school shootings

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