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Thread: Wa:CeaseFire on KISS

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    Regular Member Elimsitna's Avatar
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    Wa:CeaseFire on KISS

    Ceasefire Director Ralph Fascitelli was interviewed on KISS fm

    http://www.mediafire.com/?b404d18ba8lg179

    Alot of the same, Say's open carry is legal, we should ban "military style assault weapons", Talks about the "gun-show loophole," and says that the NRA is fear-mongering ("Rattles the cage") its members to oppose their common sense gun laws.
    One interesting thing at the end. He mentions that "kids are smart, they'll see how a lock box is opened and get into it, like this boy in Bremerton" I hadn't know that gun had been locked up prior to the shooting.
    I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested, I'd like to think that if I was I would pass,
    Look at the tested and think "there but for the grace go on," I might be a coward... I'm afraid of what I might find out.

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    FYI, they said they are going to start running an ad campaign in King and Snohomish counties on buses and such. The person performing the interview was eating everything he fed her . I had a hard time listening to the whole thing.

    Some of my favorite quotes:

    "the most important step you cant take to reduce gun violence is to not have a gun in the home" ... "especially if you have a younger male in your home" ... "or an older male" ... "or a single male" ... "or a mental illness"

    "statistics show it [gun] is not going to save you"

    "doesn't mean you going to be able to shoot it and use it effectively in the rare case an intruder approaches you, it almost never happens"

    "The risk of having a gun in the home is far greater than the deterrence of having a gun in the home"

    "We now loose more people in this state to gun violence than we do car accidents"

    "Most significant of public health issues"

    "Ask your neighbors if they have guns in the home" ... "your not protecting your kids if you don't ask your neighbors if they have guns in the home"
    Last edited by slapmonkay; 02-29-2012 at 11:38 AM.
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    Its going to be really good when they advertise on local buses. I take the bus 4days a week and carry everyday.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I've seen alot of articles on the news lately of homeowner shooting burglers, but not many of burglers breaking in and killing a homeowner that was shooting back and having a gun didnt work.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I've seen alot of articles on the news lately of homeowner shooting burglers, but not many of burglers breaking in and killing a homeowner that was shooting back and having a gun didnt work.
    That's the thing. They're counting your examples as "gun violence". After all, defending life and limb is pretty violent. They just don't believe it's right like us smart people do.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    "Ask your neighbors if they have guns in the home" ... "your not protecting your kids if you don't ask your neighbors if they have guns in the home"

    And what are suppose to do if they do??

    Maybe someone can get on there and do a rebuttal (??).

  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    All my neighbors know I am armed matter of fact most their kids have gone shooting with me and my kids in the woods close by.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    He's right you know. You aren't protecting your kids if you don't ask your neighbors if they have guns. How else will your kids know who are able to protect them if you can't/refuse to?

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    Regular Member CEM's Avatar
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    I never trust "statistics" from an advocacy group trying to take something away from the people. Of course have to blame the gun and not the person who uses it against someone illegally.

    And I thought cars kill more people then firearms do?


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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CEM View Post
    I never trust "statistics" from an advocacy group trying to take something away from the people. Of course have to blame the gun and not the person who uses it against someone illegally.

    And I thought cars kill more people then firearms do?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    Reason or rational isn't one of their abilities and doesn't suit their purposes.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
    Regular Member Elimsitna's Avatar
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    Guns did kill more people then car "Accidents" (there is no knowen figure on Co2 posiening from cars) in 2 of the last 10 years. 2009, 2011. However nationally cars accidents kill ~1.5 as many people as guns even with suicide, which makes up 40-60% of all "gun violence"

    That said I'm sure people who drive are 22x as likely to kill someone with their car then someone who doesn't drive.
    I'm not a coward, I've just never been tested, I'd like to think that if I was I would pass,
    Look at the tested and think "there but for the grace go on," I might be a coward... I'm afraid of what I might find out.

  12. #12
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    More Stats for the great debate

    Published in the Feb. issue of Guns and Ammo

    Source: US Dept. Of Health Human Services


    Accidental Deaths

    700,000 = Numbers of Doctors in the U.S.

    120,000 = Accidental deaths caused by doctors per year (wow).

    80,000,000 = number of gun owners in the U.S.

    1,500 = number of accidental gun deaths per year


    Frequency Rate

    Doctors: 0.171

    Gun Owners: 0.000188
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Published in the Feb. issue of Guns and Ammo

    Source: US Dept. Of Health Human Services


    Accidental Deaths

    700,000 = Numbers of Doctors in the U.S.

    120,000 = Accidental deaths caused by doctors per year (wow).

    80,000,000 = number of gun owners in the U.S.

    1,500 = number of accidental gun deaths per year


    Frequency Rate

    Doctors: 0.171

    Gun Owners: 0.000188
    Very interesting, indeed.
    Although I would say there is a big difference, doctors are practicing on many people everyday throughout the year, were as gun owners use their weapons a lot less frequently. Though if we take the 2% collateral damage civilians have in the use of firearms it would still be lower than doctors unless I am looking at it the wrong way. .02 is still a lot lower than .171.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Very interesting, indeed.
    Although I would say there is a big difference, doctors are practicing on many people everyday throughout the year, were as gun owners use their weapons a lot less frequently. Though if we take the 2% collateral damage civilians have in the use of firearms it would still be lower than doctors unless I am looking at it the wrong way. .02 is still a lot lower than .171.

    Of course...., this doesn't explain what I would call "frequency exposure rate", at least one of my guns is always not locked up and accessable, I carry virtually 100% of the time...so does that include the hundreds of people that are not harmed when I am out and about every day as a comparison to doc's patient schedules.

    On their side, I don't think my family practice doctor has likely killed anyone, does that number relflect all doc's or only those that are involved in practice that could end in a death, like say, plastic surgeons vs ER docs....

    You know what they say about statistics....they don't lie, but....it may be reasonable to counter BS with BS...and swear by God, it's true, it's from a reliable, unimpeachable source.

    the Gov't.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  15. #15
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Of course...., this doesn't explain what I would call "frequency exposure rate", at least one of my guns is always not locked up and accessable, I carry virtually 100% of the time...so does that include the hundreds of people that are not harmed when I am out and about every day as a comparison to doc's patient schedules.

    On their side, I don't think my family practice doctor has likely killed anyone, does that number relflect all doc's or only those that are involved in practice that could end in a death, like say, plastic surgeons vs ER docs....

    You know what they say about statistics....they don't lie, but....it may be reasonable to counter BS with BS...and swear by God, it's true, it's from a reliable, unimpeachable source.

    the Gov't.
    That's true, I love statistics and comparing but I also like looking at what is below the surface and other contributing factors. For instance how much crime have you deterred by OC'ing? There is no way to know but I have seen the deterring effect of carrying and have been told by someone I did work for how it greatly reduced shoplifting in their convenience store so I have no doubt that you OC'ing has deterred or at the very least delayed crime.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  16. #16
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    That's true, I love statistics and comparing but I also like looking at what is below the surface and other contributing factors. For instance how much crime have you deterred by OC'ing? There is no way to know but I have seen the deterring effect of carrying and have been told by someone I did work for how it greatly reduced shoplifting in their convenience store so I have no doubt that you OC'ing has deterred or at the very least delayed crime.
    Yes, that is the virtue of discernment...it is important to understand what is behind the stats, especially if you end up debating and issue with them, I have been in interesting discussions where it was clear that the person on the other side of the discussion was simply regurgitating someone else's hyperbole. Once you push through that with substantiated facts, suddenly you have a conversation and a discussion instead of a defensive argument.

    ...works with my wife all the time....both ways.

    Something Mr. Fascitelli doesn't appear particularly interested in.
    Last edited by jt59; 03-07-2012 at 08:59 PM.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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