I got 2 pints against me on the Firing Line Forum?

Honestly, I really don't care how other people carry their SD weapons. I didn't when I made my post on TFL. I just wanted to make a strong point that it was not up to them to label and criticize we open carriers. I don't know if you guys realize it but we take quite a beating from other sites when a subject like carry methods come up. I feel those who prefer concealed carry tend to become somewhat comfortable with carrying that way and become callused against those who think differently about carry methods. I prefer to carry openly, I'm comfortable with this method. Yet on the TFL I have seen two threads about carry methods and both times the attacked us OC people. It is hard enough to fight off all of the anti-gunners without attacking our own community.

I just find it hard to conceal carry my Street Sweeper (remember when they were $150?)

I post occasionally over on TFL as well, under the same username, and have found myself drug into a few OC related conversations, but have pretty much decided at this point that it's largely not worth the effort. People over there are fairly biased when it comes to beliveing that CC is the only carry method unless you're a show-off who wants to get yourself targeted by criminals.

The site does have good information on other topics from time to time, and I usually go there to read up on long guns, which I obviously can't do here.

Frankly, every opinion on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt, so I wouldn't sweat a minor infraction on a message board.

sawah said:

Heck, could one use a deodorant that's strong enough for a man but made for a woman? (I forget how that goes...)

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Of course you should forget. It is, afterall, a Secret.

Polynikes said:

I post occasionally over on TFL as well, under the same username, and have found myself drug into a few OC related conversations, but have pretty much decided at this point that it's largely not worth the effort. People over there are fairly biased when it comes to beliveing that CC is the only carry method unless you're a show-off who wants to get yourself targeted by criminals.

The site does have good information on other topics from time to time, and I usually go there to read up on long guns, which I obviously can't do here.

Frankly, every opinion on the internet should be taken with a grain of salt, so I wouldn't sweat a minor infraction on a message board.

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I can concur about the attitude toward OC carriers. It doesn't seem to bother them to insult us, does it?

sawah said:

Could a CC do an OC regime "sometimes" and still stay true to their philosophy?

Could an OC-er do a CC "sometimes" and stay true to the 2A and 'easier to access options'?

FWIW

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Simple answer? Yes. I guess by answering that I've put myself in a box. I OC'd for quite a while, got my ccw and am pretty random about when I OC and when CC. It's my RIGHT to OC and my privilege (as permitted) to CC. At least that's how I think I've figured it out.

Why I left The Firing Line

A lot of people have left the The Firing Line (TFL) recently. I have talked to some of them and heard second-hand about some of the others. Many of these people were well respected and very intelligent.

As far as I can tell, three things happened at TFL. Firstly, all the mods have stepped up the enforcement of their rules. Secondly, they have turned a bunch of members into moderators. These members are extremely aggressive in their enforcement of rules, far more aggressive than most of the longtime mods. I can only assume their zealousness is a result of their inexperience. Finally, TFL does seem to have a weird set of unwritten rules and beliefs. If you disagree with them (like OC is bad, the NRA is the source of all goodness and wisdom and only heretics would disagree, etc), you get smacked.

In 4 years, I have never gotten any points or any private messages reprimanding my conduct. In the past 3 months, I think I’ve gotten 4 PM’s and 4 points.

And that’s just me. They have banned a number of people. They close threads excessively. And they apply the rules arbitrarily. I’ve been in conversations where someone gets very obnoxious, I and others retaliated and when it was all said and done, the instigator is left alone- the instigator in these cases appears to be a friend of the mods…

Rules application is arbitrary. And if you do get penalized, you go on their list. From then on, you might as well forget it. Say a thing “out-of-line” and your post disappears. Say it again and you get some points. And if I were just a jerk, I guess I could understand. But this has happened to many people. We started PM'ing each other to see how extensive the active was and it is pervasive.

So I don’t bother with TFL anymore. And neither do a lot of people. If you read current posts you'll notice a lot of the old names are gone. It’s become a milque toast forum for new gun owners who can’t figure out which direction to point the barrel. I'm sure they're pleased with the farce they've built....

Welcome to OCDO SwampYankee - hope you find your time here informative and pleasant.

We do have some rules which we ask that all members/users be aware. We are a topic specific forum - focusing on open carry of properly holstered regular handguns as we go about our normal everyday lives - we promote, educate and defend that right.

We ask that all be self-moderating here - we try to moderate with a light hand rather than with a hammer as much as possible.

Please review the following and consider the reasons:

NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

Look forward to seeing you often on these pages. Get involved - make a difference.

PS - moving this from the Colorado sub-forum to General Discussion.

NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

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I didn't think I would get away with a full-blown rant so I was trying to moderate my comments to the best of my abilities. But thanks for the heads-up, I'll be more careful.

Specifically in regards to OC, I think FTG-05 is correct. Discussions regarding OC on the TFL often always turn ugly, with reprimands, points and closed discussion. It does not seem to fit the philosophy, no matter how well it is argued or the context of the situation. Another common source of moderator intervention at TFL is any discussion of NRA's involvement in the protection of 2A rights as they relate to CC or OC. I personally don't have enough knowledge to take a stand either way but if you criticize the NRA, you will be severely chastised, reprimanded and the thread will be closed. Perhaps there is room for the discussion of NRA's fervor or lack there-of for carry rights, but you better not say it at TFL.

I'll avoid any other criticism of their policies...

The NRA has not been held particularly in high esteem by many here - their lack of support for OC is notable The very thought of Constitutional Carry is said to cause a spike in Mr. LaPierre's blood pressure. That is most unfortunate.

IMO it is not whether you OC, CC or noC that counts - that is a personal decision. What is of major import is where one stands in defending my/our right to choose when, where and how to carry.

Concur with the OP

This is not a bash, but an observation that some folks can't handle power. TFL used to be a vibrant discussion forum. Now, a frustrated grocery clerk, HS dropout, has turned it into his exclusive stage, as self-designated court reporter. Any REAL discussion, other than the party line, is verboten. Brought in a few other mods who do nothing but reinforce each other's bias. Once they started out on this path, it didn't take too long to devolve from enforcing CONDUCT rules (which is perfectly understandable), to DELETING posts whose content doesn't agree with the prevailing opinion. Now, they simply declare whole topics as off limits. I think there's a lesson in this, for similar forums to try and avoid, if possible.

Y'know, there's always the classic dialog on respecting the VALUE of free speech. How many times, these moderators who want to defend their actions will respond "1st amendment doesn't apply in a private forum - go take a hike" (while slapping each other on the back). These guys value their own rules, and completely disregard the underlying concepts which motivated things like the bill of rights, in the first place.

The real damage occurs when folks with this mindset end up in charge of something really important, not just an online chat forum.

hector said:

This is not a bash, but an observation that some folks can't handle power. TFL used to be a vibrant discussion forum. Now, a frustrated grocery clerk, HS dropout, has turned it into his exclusive stage, as self-designated court reporter. Any REAL discussion, other than the party line, is verboten. Brought in a few other mods who do nothing but reinforce each other's bias. Once they started out on this path, it didn't take too long to devolve from enforcing CONDUCT rules (which is perfectly understandable), to DELETING posts whose content doesn't agree with the prevailing opinion. Now, they simply declare whole topics as off limits. I think there's a lesson in this, for similar forums to try and avoid, if possible.

Y'know, there's always the classic dialog on respecting the VALUE of free speech. How many times, these moderators who want to defend their actions will respond "1st amendment doesn't apply in a private forum - go take a hike" (while slapping each other on the back). These guys value their own rules, and completely disregard the underlying concepts which motivated things like the bill of rights, in the first place.

The real damage occurs when folks with this mindset end up in charge of something really important, not just an online chat forum.

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Problem being that neither 1A rights nor the perceived importance of an OT message is a valid consideration. It surely is paramount that the site owners decide what the metes and bounds are, otherwise the focus and specificity are lost. It is their sand box and we are invited guests - the request has been made to help keep the neighborhood cats from scratching out divots.

Grapeshot posted: "It surely is paramount that the site owners decide what the metes and bounds are, otherwise the focus and specificity are lost. "

As others have pointed out, when the rules are selectively applied, and to the extreme degree exhibited at TFL, something else is going on besides merely sharpening the focus of a forum,, "increasing signal to noise", and other frequently used justifications.

Grapeshot posted: "It is their sand box and we are invited guests"

True, they have exclusive access to the mod console, and that is exactly what they'll tell anyone who asks any questions about policy. "I'm in charge and you're not"; is a rather dictatorial response to member questions, wouldn't you agree? Furthermore, to set up your sandbox as a "forum", and then hang a sign out front touting "civil rights"... and then proceed to lock down free expression tighter than ****'s hatband on a regular basis; is a bit more than ironic. And once again, to shut down discussion, delete posts, and expel members not just for bad conduct or TOS violations, but because the content or topic doesn't follow the party line? That's what more than a few have noted, and the topic of this thread.

Grapeshot posted: " - the request has been made to help keep the neighborhood cats from scratching out divots. "

Various metaphors equating forum members to feral animals could be interpreted as covert insults, surely not the case here...

Respectfully,

hector.

hector said:

Grapeshot posted: "It surely is paramount that the site owners decide what the metes and bounds are, otherwise the focus and specificity are lost. "

As others have pointed out, when the rules are selectively applied, and to the extreme degree exhibited at TFL, something else is going on besides merely sharpening the focus of a forum,, "increasing signal to noise", and other frequently used justifications.

Grapeshot posted: "It is their sand box and we are invited guests"

True, they have exclusive access to the mod console, and that is exactly what they'll tell anyone who asks any questions about policy. "I'm in charge and you're not"; is a rather dictatorial response to member questions, wouldn't you agree? Furthermore, to set up your sandbox as a "forum", and then hang a sign out front touting "civil rights"... and then proceed to lock down free expression tighter than ****'s hatband on a regular basis; is a bit more than ironic. And once again, to shut down discussion, delete posts, and expel members not just for bad conduct or TOS violations, but because the content or topic doesn't follow the party line? That's what more than a few have noted, and the topic of this thread.

Grapeshot posted: " - the request has been made to help keep the neighborhood cats from scratching out divots. "

Various metaphors equating forum members to feral animals could be interpreted as covert insults, surely not the case here...

Respectfully,

hector.

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You quote me out of context and apply my words to open the door further to criticism of another site - I think not.

Would be good to become familiar with OCDO Forum Rules, especially the rules regarding quoting and objection to other gun sites as you are pushing the issue. None of these rules are negotiable. While OCDO prefers to moderate with a light hand, there are times that a firmer stand must be taken. Giving consideration that you are a recent registrant, be aware that other measures have been utilized and will be again as deemed appropriate.

Even if my attempt at humor (too lighten the message) was missed by you, I did not insult anyone, and didn't use the word "feral."

Giving posters a very straight response is my preferred method when there is a question or need. Please note that "BY USING THIS SITE YOU WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE IRREVOCABLY AGREED TO THESE RULES"
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

There is no "free expression" on most forums, this one included - we are basically limited to OC and to a lesser degree RKBA. Again, read the forum rules.

Trust that you will accept in the spirit intended and stay responsible and productive.

8) KEEP IT ON-TOPIC: All gun rights discussions not directly related to open carry should take place in the "General Discussions" forum and topics that are not related to gun rights at all should take place in "The Lounge". Please police your own posts before posting them and help keep OCDO strong and focused.

(12) NO BASHING OF OTHER GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS: Regardless of how convinced you are that another gun rights organization is not doing their job, this is not the place to air those concerns unless they are specifically related to an anti-open carry position taken by that organization. All other rants against other gun rights groups will be deleted or the thread locked.

Forum Rules