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Thread: New Ky Laws Before the General Assembly in 2012

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    New Ky Laws Before the General Assembly in 2012

    Moderators, I would like to merge this thread with the thread I started titled "Merry Christmas to All" and use the title "New Ky Laws Before the General Assembly in 2012".

    On Feb. 28, HB 500 was introduced in the House. This bill has 37 sponsors in one day. This bill will penalize cities and counties who violate KRS 65.870 by allowing lawsuits on a "loser pays" basis. City official will also be considered in violation of KRS 522.020 or 522.030,. These statutes describe Official Misconduct in the first and second degrees, both misdemeanors. The list of sponsors is impressive. Some of those are:

    Robert R. Damron (D), Majority Caucus Chair
    Rocky Adkins (D)
    Majority Floor Leader

    Jody Richards (D) Former Speaker of the House
    Tommy Thompson (D) Majority Whip

    C.B. Embry is the only Republican as this moment, but I believe others will join on.
    This bill has a good chance of passing and it could easily be reconciled with SB 161, if we can get that bill passed in the Senate. No committee assignment has been made yet. I don't think HB 290 is going anywhere, but we would have never seen HB 500 if HB 290 had not been introduced first.
    You can read the entire bill at this link, then just click the bill number in front of the sponsors' names and the full text of the bill will open.


    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/12RS/HB500.htm

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    Awesome sauce. Glad to see a bill in our favour on the block.

    My only concern with this bill, if passed, is the likelihood that it could be seen as a gateway to olden "states' rights", although this section below will be an unequal pre-emption against ANY attempts to harm our rights to keep and bear arms under both State and Federal Constitutions, it does worry me that it would be begging for a group like the Brady campaign to challenge before SCOTUS, and the chances, in whatever form, of it being struck down. I know it's something that's sorta far-fetched, but still. Something to worry about, as just because we have won a battle, does not mean we have won a war.

    (2) Any existing or future ordinance, executive order, administrative regulation, policy, procedure, rule, or any other form of executive or legislative action in violation of this section or the spirit thereof is hereby declared null, void, and unenforceable.

    Yet, I find it actually surprising that the majority, if not extreme majority of sponsors, are Democrats~ Must be Southern Democrats <3

    Who ever wrote up this bill, and pushed for it to be introduced... If it is passed, I will brew up a special batch of beer and invite you all over for some beer and BBQ! <3 <3 (Also an rarely known fact, brewing is legal ;3)
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Moderators, I would like to merge this thread with the thread I started titled "Merry Christmas to All" and use the title "New Ky Laws Before the General Assembly in 2012".

    On Feb. 28, HB 500 was introduced in the House. This bill has 37 sponsors in one day. This bill will penalize cities and counties who violate KRS 65.870 by allowing lawsuits on a "loser pays" basis. City official will also be considered in violation of KRS 522.020 or 522.030,. These statutes describe Official Misconduct in the first and second degrees, both misdemeanors. The list of sponsors is impressive. Some of those are:

    Robert R. Damron (D), Majority Caucus Chair
    Rocky Adkins (D)
    Majority Floor Leader

    Jody Richards (D) Former Speaker of the House
    Tommy Thompson (D) Majority Whip

    C.B. Embry is the only Republican as this moment, but I believe others will join on.
    This bill has a good chance of passing and it could easily be reconciled with SB 161, if we can get that bill passed in the Senate. No committee assignment has been made yet. I don't think HB 290 is going anywhere, but we would have never seen HB 500 if HB 290 had not been introduced first.
    You can read the entire bill at this link, then just click the bill number in front of the sponsors' names and the full text of the bill will open.


    http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/12RS/HB500.htm
    Greg Stumbo, Speaker of the House, has now signed on to HB 500. Also. John Tilley, Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, where HB 500 has been assigned. Total of 42 cosponsors.

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    @Drake For political purposes, the Democrats have dismissed Republican participation. Just old fashioned party politics. Thanks for the update, Gutshot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Awesome sauce. Glad to see a bill in our favour on the block.

    My only concern with this bill, if passed, is the likelihood that it could be seen as a gateway to olden "states' rights", although this section below will be an unequal pre-emption against ANY attempts to harm our rights to keep and bear arms under both State and Federal Constitutions, it does worry me that it would be begging for a group like the Brady campaign to challenge before SCOTUS, and the chances, in whatever form, of it being struck down. I know it's something that's sorta far-fetched, but still. Something to worry about, as just because we have won a battle, does not mean we have won a war.

    (2) Any existing or future ordinance, executive order, administrative regulation, policy, procedure, rule, or any other form of executive or legislative action in violation of this section or the spirit thereof is hereby declared null, void, and unenforceable.

    Yet, I find it actually surprising that the majority, if not extreme majority of sponsors, are Democrats~ Must be Southern Democrats <3

    Who ever wrote up this bill, and pushed for it to be introduced... If it is passed, I will brew up a special batch of beer and invite you all over for some beer and BBQ! <3 <3 (Also an rarely known fact, brewing is legal ;3)
    Over the years the Democrats have done more good things for Ky gunowners that the Republicans. We have some of the best gun laws in the country and Democrates have been firmly in control of Ky government and politics for 200 years. Of course, the same could be said about damaging or gun rights, because the Dems. make all decisions in Ky. Generally, it been good. Republicans might want to help us, they just don't have the power to do so and often politics gets in the way. Democrates in Ky are, generally, very conservative. Ky. is vastly Democratic, but we elect Republicans to most of our National offices, but Democrates here at home. This should tell you something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Over the years the Democrats have done more good things for Ky gunowners that the Republicans. We have some of the best gun laws in the country and Democrates have been firmly in control of Ky government and politics for 200 years. Of course, the same could be said about damaging or gun rights, because the Dems. make all decisions in Ky. Generally, it been good. Republicans might want to help us, they just don't have the power to do so and often politics gets in the way. Democrates in Ky are, generally, very conservative. Ky. is vastly Democratic, but we elect Republicans to most of our National offices, but Democrates here at home. This should tell you something.
    Yeah it tells me i dont give a hoot about whether they have a D or an R next to their name, i care if they are conservative or "progressive". If
    they are constitutionalists or traitors, there is no in between to this patriot

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    Most excellent news!!

    Thanks Gutshot for the info!!

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    Regular Member KRM59's Avatar
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    Thanks Gutshot,
    as usual you are our spearhead
    "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
    - George Mason

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    NRA steps in

    I got this off the NRA website today.


    Kentucky
    : Three Important Pro-Gun Measures Introduced


    This week, the Kentucky House of Representatives saw three pro-gun bills introduced: House Bill 484, House Bill 500 and House Bill 563. HB 484, an extension of the current concealed carry provision, was introduced by state Representative Will Coursey (D-6) and HB 500, strengthening the state’s firearms preemption law, was introduced by state Representative Robert Damron (D-39). Finally, HB 563, a fraudulent firearms purchase prevention bill, was introduced by state Representative Martha Jane King (D-16). All of these bills have been assigned to the state House Judiciary Committee and are scheduled to be heard on Wednesday, March 7, at 12:00 p.m.

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    Doesn't look like HB 280 is going to go anywhere.

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    Doesn't look like Republican sponsored HB 280 is going to go anywhere in the Democrat controlled House.

    There fixed it for you.

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    Today HB 500 was heard in the House Judiciary Committee. I went intending to testify and help get this passed. Several others were there for the same purpose. Less than two minutes into the discussion the Committe Chair said "let's wrap this up and vote". It passed with no problems. It had been decided way before the meeting. Most of the anti's didn't even show up. They knew it was a waste of their time. HB 500 should be on the House floor by Monday. I think it is sure to pass the House next week, then on to the Senate. I stopped by Sen. Perry Clark's office and thanked him for sponsoring SB 161. SB 161 picked up a new sponsor today.
    Last edited by gutshot; 03-08-2012 at 09:48 PM.

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    Please read my full update on HB 500 in this THREAD started by Elzetta in the KY Hometown Forum of AR15.com:
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_27/47...=bottom#bottom


    The KY Firearms Freedom Act language from HB 222 was offered as a Floor Amendment to HB 500. Pending passage of HB 500 (as amended or without) I plan to organize a KY GOLD (Gun Owner Lobby Day) focused on Senate passage of SB 161 which is the same Preemption bill in that chamber. Tentative date is Wednesday March 21st.
    Last edited by Cottonbaler; 03-11-2012 at 01:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cottonbaler View Post
    Please read my full update on HB 500 in this THREAD started by Elzetta in the KY Hometown Forum of AR15.com:
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_27/47...=bottom#bottom


    The KY Firearms Freedom Act language from HB 222 was offered as a Floor Amendment to HB 500. Pending passage of HB 500 (as amended or without) I plan to organize a KY GOLD (Gun Owner Lobby Day) focused on Senate passage of SB 161 which is the same Preemption bill in that chamber. Tentative date is Wednesday March 21st.
    I went to AR15.com and read the posts over there on this subject and there seems to be quite a bit of misunderstanding about HB 500, HB 290 and SB 161. First, HB 500 is similar to the earlier introduced HB 290, however the harsh penalties for local officials were removed. There is no $100,000 fine for cities or $5,000 fine for local officials in HB 500. HB 500 will allow us to recover attorneys fees if we win a lawsuit against a city. It will also make local officials guilty of official misconduct for violations. Official misconduct is a class A misdemeanor. That is all it does. Second, neither HB 290, HB 500 or SB 161 would overturn KRS 237.115. Local governments will still be able to prohibit CC in their buildings, no matter what passes. That is a provision of the concealed carry law. None of these bills was ever intended to do that. That provision of 237.115 was an exception to the old KRS 65.870 and will still be an exception to the new, amended 65.870, in any case. Third, HB 290 is not going anywhere. We all might just as well forget it. Forth, SB 161 is not exactly like HB 500. SB 161 provides for recovery of attorney's fees in a lawsuit and that is all is does. There is no provision for criminal action for official misconduct in SB 161, as there is in HB 500. Now, I do agree that HB 500 and SB 161 could be easily merged if both were passed and that was my original preference, but I have not found much enthusiasm for that approach in Frankfort and think it is much more likely and more to our liking, because of the criminal prosecution of city officials, that HB 500 will pass the House and gain support in the Senate and pass there, also. None of this is what I would prefer, but what I think is possible this year. I'd prefer HB 290. I'm not going to get it. KY GOLD is a good idea, but the emphasis needs to be switched to HB 500. I do not think we should put all our eggs in one basket and completely abandon SB 161; but, clearly, more emphasis needs to be put on HB 500, becase it is more likely to be pushed for reasons I can't discuss here. I hope and believe that by March 21 this will all be a done deal or at least greatly clarified. HB 500 should be in the Senate by this week and I believe it will move swiftly. There are only 16 days left in this session. By the 21st there will only be 8 days left. We'll know something soon.
    Last edited by gutshot; 03-11-2012 at 08:33 PM.

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    Thanks for the clarifications gutshot, I too believe passing HB 500 should be our top priority and then work to get the Senate to adopt it. And gutshot is also correct in that the newly revised KRS 65.870 does not appear to alter the language of KRS 237.115. Yet I refer you to the text of HB 500:



    "(1) No existing or future city, county, urban-county government, charter county, consolidated local government, unified local government, special district, local or regional public or quasi-public agency, board, commission, department, public corporation, or any person acting under the authority of any of these organizations may occupy any part of the field of regulation of the manufacture, sale, purchase, taxation, transfer, ownership, possession, carrying, storage, or transportation of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, components of ammunition, firearms accessories, or combination thereof.

    (2) Any existing or future ordinance, executive order, administrative regulation, policy, procedure, rule, or any other form of executive or legislative action in violation of this section or the spirit thereof is hereby declared null, void, and unenforceable."



    If there is a failure of HB 500 it is the failure to include specific language that repeals KRS 237.115's exception to KRS 65.870 that does allow cities, etc. to prohibit CCW in their buildings. Yet let's say HB 500 passes both chambers and Gov. Beshear signs it into law. What's to say a group of gunowners in a city couldn't go to their local council and using the language of the newly revised KRS 65.870 get them to bring down the signs? I'd say that would be a victory. Yet if gunowners run into opposition from some hotshot city councilmen who point out KRS 237.115 allows them to continue to prohibit CCW in their buildings then we're right back at square flippin' one.

    And that is PRECISELY why not including language into HB 500 that repeals the KRS 237.115 exception was a mistake and an oversight that must be corrected next year if possible. Why Rep. Damron did not think to write that into HB 500 I'll never know. HB 500, while a good bill, could've been even better without that oversight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cottonbaler View Post
    Thanks for the clarifications gutshot, I too believe passing HB 500 should be our top priority and then work to get the Senate to adopt it. And gutshot is also correct in that the newly revised KRS 65.870 does not appear to alter the language of KRS 237.115. Yet I refer you to the text of HB 500:



    "(1) No existing or future city, county, urban-county government, charter county, consolidated local government, unified local government, special district, local or regional public or quasi-public agency, board, commission, department, public corporation, or any person acting under the authority of any of these organizations may occupy any part of the field of regulation of the manufacture, sale, purchase, taxation, transfer, ownership, possession, carrying, storage, or transportation of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, components of ammunition, firearms accessories, or combination thereof.

    (2) Any existing or future ordinance, executive order, administrative regulation, policy, procedure, rule, or any other form of executive or legislative action in violation of this section or the spirit thereof is hereby declared null, void, and unenforceable."



    If there is a failure of HB 500 it is the failure to include specific language that repeals KRS 237.115's exception to KRS 65.870 that does allow cities, etc. to prohibit CCW in their buildings. Yet let's say HB 500 passes both chambers and Gov. Beshear signs it into law. What's to say a group of gunowners in a city couldn't go to their local council and using the language of the newly revised KRS 65.870 get them to bring down the signs? I'd say that would be a victory. Yet if gunowners run into opposition from some hotshot city councilmen who point out KRS 237.115 allows them to continue to prohibit CCW in their buildings then we're right back at square flippin' one.

    And that is PRECISELY why not including language into HB 500 that repeals the KRS 237.115 exception was a mistake and an oversight that must be corrected next year if possible. Why Rep. Damron did not think to write that into HB 500 I'll never know. HB 500, while a good bill, could've been even better without that oversight.
    Once again, you have missed the point of my post. The language of HB 500, you quote above, is no more restrictive than the language of 65,870, today. The current 65.870 prohibits all local ordinances, yet the authority in KRS 237.115 is allowed. It is an exception to 65.870. That fact has not and will not change with HB 500. It is neither a "mistake" nor an "oversight". It was intentional. I spoke with Representative Damron about this very point. It was decided that the bill had very little chance of passing with that type of wording or intent. Once again, neither HB 290 nor HB 500 was ever intended to overturn the authority of a city, under the provisions of KR 237.115, to prohibit CC in their buildings. If we can get HB 500 passed into law we are not "right back to square flippin' one". We can force cities and counties that stretch their authority in KRS 237.115 to include openly carried weapons in their buildings and any weapons in open spaces to stop those violations of KRS 65.870. Once these cities realize that they can't prohibit openly carried weapons and people are walking around all their buildings while OC, the ban on CC will become much less attractive and allowing CC will seem like a very good idea. As far as getting a city to take down their signs with the passage of HB 500, good luck. I'm all for it, but I don't think that will happen. Any half wit city attorney will attempt to get all he can out of the new statute. Ky. League of Cities will tell them exactly what they can and can't do. The problem will be stopping them from doing too much not trying to trick them into doing too little. In fact there is nothing to prevent a person from doing what you propose, today. Do you think you would have any luck with that under the existing 65.870? Why not? It says no ordinances. Nothing will change in their authority. The only change will be in what happens if they exceed that authority. What you are talking about would be wonderful, but neither I nor anyone else, thinks it is do-able. We can dream about the perfect situation, that we can not get done at this point, or we can do what is possible to make things better, a little at a time. We can hold out for more and get nothing done, as with the FFA last year, or we can accomplish a little this year and ask for a little more next year. Which would you prefer? What is important is that we not go home at the end of this session empty handed. We all need to get behind this and stop working in several different directions and for several different goals. That is our biggest weakness.

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    Gutshot is once again correct. I agree our top priority should be House passage of HB 500. Once that happens I believe there's a good chance the Senate will simply adopt it rather than passing SB 161 and going through the reconciliation process. Just as gutshot stated, let's take what we can get this session and try again in 2013.

    And I'll say one more thing about our friend gutshot. Thanks to him and others who have posted in this thread, the KY Open Carry forum and the KY Hometown subforum on AR15.com I have learned more about Kentucky's gun laws and the legislative process than I ever knew. I look forward to helping other gunowners understand and get involved in the fight for our rights.


    EDIT: I called the Bill Status Line and found out HB 500 is posted to the Regular Orders but it won't be voted on until the Majority Floor Leader places it on the Calendar. That would be Rep. Rocky Adkins (D-99) who is also a cosponsor of the bill.

    Therefore, I'm asking everyone to Call the Legislative Message Line at 1-800-372-7181 today and leave a message for your Representative AND Majority Floor Leader Rocky Adkins:

    "Please pass House Floor Amendment 1 to HB 500 and please pass HB 500."
    Last edited by Cottonbaler; 03-12-2012 at 01:27 PM.

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    The floor amendment to HB 500 has been withdrawn. This was the amendment that attached the Firearms Freedom Act to HB 500. Hopefully, this will allow HB 500 to move again. HB 500 picked another cosponsor today. That makes 83.
    Last edited by gutshot; 03-13-2012 at 09:38 PM.

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    Wow 83 co-sponsors! HB 500's web page still shows 80 so I guess the other three will be added when it updates again. Disappointed about the KY Firearms Freedom Act language being withdrawn but with it gone I see no reason why this bill can't be passed sometime this week. Keep up those calls everyone!

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    Unfortunately I don't see how this will help against judges acting outside of their authority.
    A bullet may have your name on it, but shrapnel is addressed to whom it may concern.
    Why open carrying is a good idea: http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...encounter.html

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    HB 500 passed the House today 88-8!!

    Next stop is the Senate. A similar bill, SB 161 sponsored by Sen. Perry Clark, is in the Judiciary committee which next meets this Thursday at 10 AM in Capitol Annex rm. 154. I agree with gutshot's suggestion that we get the Senate to simply adopt HB 500 to get it to Gov. Beshear as soon as possible.

    Call the Legislative Message Line at 1-800-372-7181 and leave the following message for your Senator and the Senate Leadership: "Please pass HB 500"

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyCherokee View Post
    Unfortunately I don't see how this will help against judges acting outside of their authority.
    It won't. No one said it would. It wasn't intended to do that. Judges are not mentioned in KRS 65.870. That problem will have to be handled in a different manner. "Separation of Powers" prevents a legislative solution to that. It will have to be handled in the courts. It has taken years for things to get like this, it will take years and thousands of dollars to get them straightened out.

    Where have you been, Charley? I've missed you posting your wise advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    It won't. No one said it would. It wasn't intended to do that. Judges are not mentioned in KRS 65.870. That problem will have to be handled in a different manner. "Separation of Powers" prevents a legislative solution to that. It will have to be handled in the courts. It has taken years for things to get like this, it will take years and thousands of dollars to get them straightened out.

    Where have you been, Charley? I've missed you posting your wise advice.
    So KRS 61.170 wouldnt apply?

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    Quote Originally Posted by UnfetteredMight View Post
    So KRS 61.170 wouldnt apply?
    No, it would not. That statute applies to county officials, only. Judges are state employees.

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    The 8 Representative that voted against HB 500 are:

    Owens, Darryl
    (D) Jefferson
    Wayne, Jim (D) Jefferson
    Jenkins, Joni L.
    (D) Jefferson
    Riner, Tom (D) Jefferson
    Owens, Darryl
    (D) Jefferson
    Burch, Thomas J. (D) Jefferson
    Marzian, Mary Lou
    (D) Jefferson
    Flood, Kelly (D) Fayette

    Can anyone spot a trend? This list is the usual suspects that always stand in the way of gun owners rights. If any of you are unfortunate enough to live in the districts that these people represent, please remember these votes at the next election.
    Don't let all the D's fool you. There were plenty of D's that voted "yes" on this bill.

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