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Thread: Bills signed by the Governor

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Bills signed by the Governor

    We'll want to keep an eye on this list over the next few days and weeks:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?121+lst+APP

    Only one "gun bill" on there so far, the OGAM repeal.

    TFred

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    We'll want to keep an eye on this list over the next few days and weeks:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?121+lst+APP

    Only one "gun bill" on there so far, the OGAM repeal.

    TFred
    This is the time of the year that proves it's easier to kill a bill than push one through.
    I'm getting invitations to the wrap up parties for next week. It's a chance to discuss what didn't get accomplished.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    We'll want to keep an eye on this list over the next few days and weeks:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?121+lst+APP

    Only one "gun bill" on there so far, the OGAM repeal.

    TFred
    HB 20 Emergency Services and Disaster Law; constitutional rights of citizens to keep and bear arms was signed by McDonald yesterday.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    HB 20 Emergency Services and Disaster Law; constitutional rights of citizens to keep and bear arms was signed by McDonald yesterday.
    I wish there was a way to sort that list in the order that he signs... it's hard to keep track of the new ones!

    TFred

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    I see emergency shelters are still excluded. That seemed to be an issue with some people. Shelter in place unless you can't is the only way to go.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Read subparagraph (3), kenny.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Read subparagraph (3), kenny.
    Sure looks they can still ban in emergency shelters to my eyes....

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe13 View Post
    Sure looks they can still ban in emergency shelters to my eyes....

    Roscoe
    Of course they can:

    "except to the extent necessary to ensure public safety in any place or facility designated or used by the Governor, any political subdivision of the Commonwealth, or any other governmental entity as an emergency shelter or for the purpose of sheltering persons;"

    With that in there, they might as well have written in the title, "This sham of a bill is just to make you gun nuts feel good."

    TFred

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Of course they can:

    "except to the extent necessary to ensure public safety in any place or facility designated or used by the Governor, any political subdivision of the Commonwealth, or any other governmental entity as an emergency shelter or for the purpose of sheltering persons;"

    With that in there, they might as well have written in the title, "This sham of a bill is just to make you gun nuts feel good."

    TFred

    It's potentially even worse than that. Looks like ANY GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY could arbitrarily declare YOUR HOUSE as an emergency shelter, and then prohibit you from carrying there....

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    HB 20 Emergency Services and Disaster Law; constitutional rights of citizens to keep and bear arms was signed by McDonald yesterday.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  11. #11
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe13 View Post
    Sure looks they can still ban in emergency shelters to my eyes...
    I can't for the life of me figure out how you guys are arriving at this conclusion.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  12. #12
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    I can't for the life of me figure out how you guys are arriving at this conclusion.
    Didn't you see my post quoting the relevant part of the bill?

    All the Governor, or any state official has to do is say, "We feel that allowing guns in this shelter would be a threat to public safety."

    That's all it will take.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 03-02-2012 at 04:29 PM. Reason: Tweak

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Didn't you see my post quoting the relevant part of the bill?
    No.
    All the Governor, or any state official has to do is say, "We feel that allowing guns in this shelter would be a threat to public safety."
    "except to the extent necessary to ensure public safety"

    The public safety is not any more in danger during a time of emergency than it is at any other time from law abiding citizens.

    I understand the concern, I suppose. But I do not share it.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    i understand what tf and roscoe are concerned about.
    the language seems to give discretion, without very specific definitions, to the governor *and* other governmental agencies, to decide what constitutes the emergency, the threat to public safety or the facility/building designated as a shelter.

    yielding carte blanche power to government actors should always give 'we the people' strong cause to pause and reflect.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    The conversation as been going on for many years. Guns will never be allowed in emergency shelters in the Commonwealth. In Virginia the Red Cross in contracted to run and pay for the shelters.. They can be anywhere, but they are run by Red Cross rules. Same rules say "No Guns". That is why you must learn to shelter in place if you can.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    The public safety is not any more in danger during a time of emergency than it is at any other time from law abiding citizens.

    I understand the concern, I suppose. But I do not share it.


    If the Governor or any other listed person says, "The public safety is in danger, so no guns!"

    And you say, "I don't agree with you, I'm bringing in my gun anyway!"

    How do you think that is going to play out for you?

    TFred

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    The handgun 30 day thing, if this passes does it take place instant or wait till July 1??
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

  18. #18
    Regular Member mk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    The handgun 30 day thing, if this passes does it take place instant or wait till July 1??
    replied to you in the other thread.
    bill signed. july 1, '12.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    How do you think that is going to play out for you?
    Touché, I guess...

    Of course, in Hampton Roads there aren't many designated emergency shelters which are not also public schools, so carry in them would be verboten anyway.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Of course, in Hampton Roads there aren't many designated emergency shelters which are not also public schools, so carry in them would be verboten anyway.
    Another point that makes the law virtually useless, sad to say. This law should have included a provision to override the school prohibition, since I think it's fairly obvious that any time a school is required to be used as an emergency shelter, it won't be in use as a school.

    What logical reason would there be to oppose such a provision?

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 03-05-2012 at 02:38 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Another point that makes the law virtually useless, sad to say. This law should have included a provision to override the school prohibition, since I think it's fairly obvious that any time a school is required to be used as an emergency shelter, it won't be in use as a school.

    What logical reason would there be to oppose such a provision?

    TFred
    Blood in the hallways!

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    I believe the purpose of HB 20 was geared more towards fending off a law like NC has that states:
    "It is also a misdemeanor under North Carolina law for a person to transport or
    possess, off his or her own premises, a dangerous weapon in an area during a declared
    state of emergency, or in the vicinity of a riot. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-288.7 A concealed
    handgun permit does not allow a permittee to carry a weapon in these areas. N.C. Gen.
    Stat. § 14-415.11(c) "

    So when the Gov. of NC declares a "State of Emergency" during (or after) a hurricane, snow storm... whatever, you may not legally leave your property with a "dangerous weapon" whether you are evacuating to a shelter or simply to a family members home, hotel, etc.

    I strongly supported this bill as I live in a flood prone area and have had to evacuate a few times. And of course my "valuables" leave with me. YMMV

    John
    It is better to have less thunder in the mouth and more lightning in the hand. - Apache proverb

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    The purpose/original intent is irrelevant. What we ended up with is a bill that's worse than having no bill at all...

    Roscoe
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roscoe13 View Post
    The purpose/original intent is irrelevant. What we ended up with is a bill that's worse than having no bill at all...

    Roscoe
    Yep!
    Seems to be the norm when people aren't careful about what they wish for.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yep!
    Seems to be the norm when people aren't careful about what they wish for.
    Well the bill does suck, but it could have sucked more. I am surprised that the constitutional guarantees were not afforded to only those that have a CHP. You know a real P4P - a trump card for emergency gun bans.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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