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Thread: jetty park

  1. #1
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    jetty park

    i dont know if the park is city or county thay do not allow firearms
    http://www.jettyparkbeachandcampground.com/park_beach

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    Since we can only CC anyway, what difference does it make? No one's going to know unless you choose to go postal on all the seagulls..

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    j4l: The difference is such a regulation is in direct violation of state law, and with the passage of HB45(?) anyone who even attempts to enforce it may be held personally liable. Plus, there is a fishing pier and since OC is perfectly legal when going to, engaging in, or returning from fishing, it is a very pertinent question.

    For the OP: It would seem that it is operated by neither entity. According to THIS PAGE it is operated by Canaveral Port Authority, which is backed up by CPA's own website HERE. The task at this point would be to determine if (as I personally believe to be true) the CPA is a political subsidiary of the state, or if it is a 100% PRIVATE enterprise. If it is a political subdivision then they are in violation of state law, if not then they are within their private property rights to restrict firearms possession.

    I shall continue to dig, and post further should I discover any apparently definitive evidence either way.

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    Well damn...that was fast.

    From the CPA's own general information page's, opening paragraph:


    In 1953, the year the Port was dedicated, a Special Act of the Florida state legislature created the independent governmental agency that operates the Port the Canaveral Port Authority.
    (emphasis mine)

    The restriction is null, void and unenforceable.

    Carry on!

  5. #5
    Regular Member Ironside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phssthpok View Post
    Well damn...that was fast.

    The restriction is null, void and unenforceable.

    Carry on!
    So, Rich! Are you going to tell'em?

    Also, it is a CAMPGROUND so OC should be good plus FISHING on the pier.

    Anybody want to go?
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    Curiouser and Curiouser..... How much of a thorn in their side would you like to be? (and by *you* I'm speaking in a general sense to the reading audience, not any one particular person or entity)

    From the park page linked in the OP:

    Fishing Pier

    If fishing is your forte, Jetty Park has got you covered with its 1,200' fishing pier that extends into the ocean guaranteeing that no fish is safe from the experienced angler. The fishing pier is fully accessible to the physically challenged. The fishing pier is equipped with running water and fish cleaning stations. And you don't need a license to fish off the pier although fishing rules and regulations still apply. Bait and tackle can be purchased at the Bait Shop located in the two-story beach pavilion.
    (bold as in original, red emphasis mine)

    Wanting to make sure this wasn't a misrepresentation of the 'free' resident SW license, I did some digging...

    From THIS PAGE on the FFWCC website we find exemptions to fishing license requirements...namely:
    You do not need a saltwater fishing license or a snook or spiny lobster *permit if...

    -You fish for recreational purposes from a pier with a valid pier saltwater fishing license.
    (bold as in original)

    Now at this point it would be prudent to state that I have not, as yet, confirmed the existence of such a 'pier saltwater fishing license' in effect for the CPA, but I have found on the very same website (on a DIFFERENT PAGE) that it applies to the STRUCTURE, and not the PERSON. (I.E. the owner of the pier licenses the pier for fishing in much the same way a charter boat's license covers all aboard).


    However... as a mental exercise let us presume that the 'pier' fishing license is indeed in effect for the Jetty Park Pier. One would legally be able to OC completely STERILE and still be within the parameters of the law.

    -You are not carrying concealed
    -You are either on your way to, engaged in, or on your way from a lawful fishing activity
    -You are not required to posses a license to fish at that location (from the pier...stay off the beach unless you have an actual fishing license)
    -You are neither required by law to maintain or posses identification documents if you are not engaged in any licensed activity. (driving, etc.)

    Anyone asking for ID in such an instance *could* be greeted with a resounding ''Piss off!'', though I would advise a more...diplomatic...approach.
    Last edited by Phssthpok; 03-01-2012 at 06:20 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    So, Rich! Are you going to tell'em?

    Also, it is a CAMPGROUND so OC should be good plus FISHING on the pier.

    Anybody want to go?
    It's on our "to do" list, but it's a bit more complex than it appears.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich7553 View Post
    It's on our "to do" list, but it's a bit more complex than it appears.

    More complex in what way? (Or is there some stratigery going on behind the scenes that begs silence? Cards close to vest? Chess pieces being placed?)

  9. #9
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Hmmm, I'm going to be on that side of the state next week and I always did like Jetty Park when I lived "up north".

    Might have to take a detour over there when I depart Orlando for Daytona.

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  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phssthpok View Post
    However... as a mental exercise let us presume that the 'pier' fishing license is indeed in effect for the Jetty Park Pier. One would legally be able to OC completely STERILE and still be within the parameters of the law.

    -You are not carrying concealed
    -You are either on your way to, engaged in, or on your way from a lawful fishing activity
    -You are not required to posses a license to fish at that location (from the pier...stay off the beach unless you have an actual fishing license)
    -You are neither required by law to maintain or posses identification documents if you are not engaged in any licensed activity. (driving, etc.)

    Anyone asking for ID in such an instance *could* be greeted with a resounding ''Piss off!'', though I would advise a more...diplomatic...approach.

    DO NOT TELL THE PD TO PISS OFF!

    First, and most importantly to getting open carry passed in Florida, it makes us look bad. Legislators do not pass laws to help people who are trying to "stick it to the man".

    Second, failure to at least verbally identify yourself to PD is grounds for arrest under many circumstances in Florida.

    Here is one such statutory example:

    856.021 Loitering or prowling; penalty.(1) It is unlawful for any person to loiter or prowl in a place, at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals, under circumstances that warrant a justifiable and reasonable alarm or immediate concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity.
    (2) Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this section if the law enforcement officer did not comply with this procedure or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the person is true and, if believed by the officer at the time, would have dispelled the alarm or immediate concern.
    (3) Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.


  11. #11
    Regular Member Rich7553's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phssthpok View Post
    More complex in what way? (Or is there some stratigery going on behind the scenes that begs silence? Cards close to vest? Chess pieces being placed?)
    Nothing quite so sinister, although I love the cloak and dagger imagery.
    Last edited by Rich7553; 03-02-2012 at 08:38 AM.
    Rich
    MSgt, USAF Ret.
    Executive Director
    Florida Carry, Inc.
    www.floridacarry.org
    Glock 23 RTF2
    Mosin Nagant M91/30 (1942 Izhevsk)
    _____________________________________
    Want to do something about your gun rights?
    PITCH IN, QUIT B*TCHING!

  12. #12
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StogieC View Post
    DO NOT TELL THE PD TO PISS OFF!

    First, and most importantly to getting open carry passed in Florida, it makes us look bad. Legislators do not pass laws to help people who are trying to "stick it to the man".

    Second, failure to at least verbally identify yourself to PD is grounds for arrest under many circumstances in Florida.

    Here is one such statutory example:

    856.021 Loitering or prowling; penalty.(1) It is unlawful for any person to loiter or prowl in a place, at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals, under circumstances that warrant a justifiable and reasonable alarm or immediate concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity.
    (2) Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this section if the law enforcement officer did not comply with this procedure or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the person is true and, if believed by the officer at the time, would have dispelled the alarm or immediate concern.
    (3) Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    Just to clarify, 'identifying yourself' and 'providing identification' are not necessarily the same thing. We are not required to carry 'papers' unless engaging in an activity that requires them (driving, carryin a concealed weapon, etc...).
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

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  13. #13
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    From Port Canaveral web page " nothing about guns"

    Jetty Park Day-Use Rules and Restrictions
    Park hours for day visitors are 7 a.m. - Dusk. Day visitors must pay the day parking fee. Click here for fees.
    Children must be under adult supervision at all times. Parents are responsible for the conduct of their children.
    Portable swimming pools are prohibited. Children are not allowed to play with the water faucets running.
    No tree climbing or sitting is permitted.
    No wood or artificial log fires are permitted on the beach or anywhere in the park.
    Charcoal only is to be used in on-site grills. Propane gas grills are allowed.
    No washing, repairing or servicing of vehicles or camping units is permitted.
    Black or grey water may not be released onto the ground. (There are 2 dump stations in the campground.)
    Motorized vehicles are not permitted in the pavilion areas, inlet tent area, west tent area, beach or fishing pier areas, unless authorized by park personnel.
    Speed limits and traffic regulations are strictly enforced. Only street-legal motorized vehicles are permitted in the park.
    Do not feed feral cats or raccoons in the park.
    Do not dig with metal detectors, due to the presence of underground cables and wiring.
    Bathhouses located inside the campground are for registered campers only. Violators will be cited for trespassing.
    Solicitation of any kind is prohibited.

  14. #14
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    I'm in Viera .....

    and would be interested in a group OC meet on the pier.

    Post a notice if and when.

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