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Thread: Crime rate in metro Denver

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    Crime rate in metro Denver

    Hi all,
    Well just watching the news tonight reinforces why I carry. For the longest time ive been afraid to open carry because I hardly see anyone in the Greeley area open carry and thanks to this forum I now know I'm not alone out there and I just want to say thank you to all of you and hopefully in the future I can attend a meet up and hopefully encourage more people to open carry in my area.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Stewart View Post
    Hi all,
    Well just watching the news tonight reinforces why I carry. For the longest time ive been afraid to open carry because I hardly see anyone in the Greeley area open carry and thanks to this forum I now know I'm not alone out there and I just want to say thank you to all of you and hopefully in the future I can attend a meet up and hopefully encourage more people to open carry in my area.
    Howdy Amigo!
    Welcome to the herd, where the OCDO brand is growing constantly.
    We host a few of them meet & greets during the year, and the next one will likely be closer to the metro area.
    I'd love to have you join us at the next one we have, as we enjoy getting together to talk about open carry, get to know one another, and of course, dine on some fine fare.

    Consider the fact that 99% of Coloradoans haven't the faintest idea that open carry is legal, and the fact that you don't see many folks open carrying isn't terribly surprising. But trust me when I say that we are out here. We are currently considering ways to bring open carry to more folks by doing events that call attention to this right. We're talking about ways to help educate the general public about open carry, and the sort of people who do so on a daily basis. A bit of media attention would help considerably. This particular discussion was the highlight of our most recent meet and greet, and we are still trying to figure out ways to reach more Colorado law abiding citizens to embrace their right to openly carry the means of defense in this troublesome time when crime is fairly rampant. We haven't yet settled on anything, but are talking about things we might do to help spread the word.

    One thing we all agreed on was that being snarky when people ask about why we're armed isn't going to win any converts. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, as my grandmother often said. Glib replies or snide remarks won't work very well and only serve to stoke the fires of suspicioin that many citizens have. There are sterotypes to overcome, and the best way to do that is for each of us to consider ourselves ambassadors of open carry. As with any ambassador, we need to be respectful of others, employ tact when asked out carrying, and provide solid information to people who do not know they have this right.

    Sorry, didn't mean to launch into a rambling discourse here, but I can completely understand where you're coming from. It wasn't that long ago that I started open carrying, and it seemed like I was the only one doing that in Aurora. Those meet and greets help to get us beyond the "everbody is staring at me" misconception that most of us deal with when we start doing so. It's a great opportunity to share experiences, discuss our opinions, and answer questions. So don't be timid about asking whatever comes to mind. Somebody around here will have an answer to darn near anything.

    Again, welcome to the OCDO forum, and I'd love to meet up with you whenever I visit Greeley next. Maybe we could drop by a Starbucks or other place to hang out and get to know each other better.

    In closing, I'd just like to say that I carry everywhere I go, at all times, with my pistol worn on my hip. I haven't had any negative encounters, but have enjoyed many opportunities to discuss open carry and our RKBA! We live in a terrific state, and I have yet to meet anybody in the open carry movement that I haven't enjoyed meeting and consider many my friends!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Thanks for the welcome and info. I love to learn about things I'm passionate about and after all knowledge is power. I look forward to meeting up with ya some time in the meantime take care. Currently I'm trying to convince my dad, brother and brother-in-law to at least try it. I still plan on getting my CCP but only to be able to carry where I can't OC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    It wasn't that long ago that I started open carrying, and it seemed like I was the only one doing that in Aurora. Those meet and greets help to get us beyond the "everbody is staring at me" misconception that most of us deal with when we start doing so.
    Has anyone experienced being stared at while OCing? Sure, people look, but people look when I wear a funny tshirt. I don't think I've had a problem of people actually "staring".

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mahkagari View Post
    Has anyone experienced being stared at while OCing? Sure, people look, but people look when I wear a funny tshirt. I don't think I've had a problem of people actually "staring".
    Howdy Pard!
    That's the whole point! You figure folks will stare at you when you start OC'ing, but nobody does. Just like nobody goes running away in terror or hiding under tables because you show up wearing a sidearm. We conjure up all manner of notions in our minds when we first commence to OC, and they soon evidence that such concerns are unfounded.

    That being said, I actually did have one guy who stared holes through me once. That was when I went with my wife into a Chinese restaurant to order for takeout. While we waited for our food to arrive, one other patron glared at me the whole time. It was a little unsettling, but there was no other confrontation. I don't know why he stared at me the way he did, but I figured later it must be because I'm such a handsome devil!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    That being said, I actually did have one guy who stared holes through me once. That was when I went with my wife into a Chinese restaurant to order for takeout. While we waited for our food to arrive, one other patron glared at me the whole time. It was a little unsettling, but there was no other confrontation. I don't know why he stared at me the way he did, but I figured later it must be because I'm such a handsome devil!
    It was because you were distracting the staff and he wanted extra sweet and sour sauce for his egg rolls NOW dagnabit!!

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    Lol

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    Why there exist this attitude that questions the constitutionally protected right of people to be armed for lawful defense of their person is beyond me since one runs the risk everyday of being targeted for a personal robbery, or other violent crime.

    I guess it's for the same reason that on duty personnel on military installations are not permitted to be armed - some sort of "we are civilized now" notion that is nothing more than wishful thinking.

    There is a default mind-set in our society that any person sporting a holstered sidearm in the public square "must be law enforcement".........That is due to decades of conditioning. So in most cases the OC'er is likely to be assumed to be LE - at least at first glance. Being retired, I'm blessed with the ability to OC at my discretion, and I've never been challenged in Colorado Springs - or anywhere else for that matter.

    Lawful bearing of arms openly -such as a holstered handgun - is a right recognized by the U.S. Constitution, and the Colorado Constitution not withstanding the reluctance of the federal judiciary to concede that fact.

    We can no longer allow those government institutions that are bound by those constitutions to negate this right to bear arms. It will be an uphill battle for a while but we must push back at the official and unofficial attitudes that would deny or oppress the exercise of this right , and repackage it as a government bestowed privilege.

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    Ok I gotta ask and I hope it's not a stupid question...to be considered OC if my shirt happens to move like they sometimes do and is laying on part of my weapon ie...barely covering my striker indicater is that/ should that be taken as CC? I was fueling up and a guy asked me if I have a permit for that gun I said no but I don't need one to OC and he said my firearm was concealed enough to argue that fact so I moved my tee and left. Can someone please clarify if he is correct? And please note that I'm not exaggerating my tee shirt was barely touching from what I assume was just me getting out of my truck.

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    Regular Member O2HeN2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Stewart View Post
    ...he said my firearm was concealed enough to argue that fact...
    He saw it, didn't he? Ergo, not concealed. I never understood the argument "I can't see enough of your firearm" -- if you can see it enough to know that it's there, who cares how much you can't see?

    Yes, I know that you may spend thousands of dollars making the argument in a court of law, but can anyone point to the CRS that defines what is "concealed" or "unconcealed"?

    O2
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    Quote Originally Posted by O2HeN2 View Post
    He saw it, didn't he? Ergo, not concealed. I never understood the argument "I can't see enough of your firearm" -- if you can see it enough to know that it's there, who cares how much you can't see?

    Yes, I know that you may spend thousands of dollars making the argument in a court of law, but can anyone point to the CRS that defines what is "concealed" or "unconcealed"?

    O2
    I was under the impression Arizona had a definition of 'open vs. concealed' somewhere in their laws. While I know that has no bearing on Colorado laws, it could give a citizen an idea of what is considered 'open', if that definition exists (I might get around to looking for it when I have some more time). However, keep in mind that is Arizona's definition (if it exists) and not Colorado's.

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    Thank you! I have been searching and nothing found. I feel the same as you and it's not like it's small it's a full size XD 45. I stayed polite through the whole conversation and thanked him for pointing it out to me but doesn't mean I gotta agree and I am new to this so I didnt want to argue a fact that I wasn't completely sure of.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Sometimes you have to look at the concealed carry laws to back into the definition of open carry.

    Some state laws say that it is hidden/concealed if it cannot be readily identifiable as a gun.

    The Florida Legislature defines a concealed firearm as any firearm “carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal it from the ordinary sight of another person.
    http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/wea...f_defense.html
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    Going off of Arizona legislature...

    State vs. Adams, determines that "even if weapon was visible from certain angle outside vehicle; weapon was hidden from "ordinary observation" or "ordinary sight" of persons outside vehicle" - http://www.azcdl.org/AZAppellateCourt_StateVAdams.pdf

    I can't find anything in the Colorado legislature, guess thats a good thing though.

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    Thanks Grapeshot.

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    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    At a recent Meet & Greet, one of the gentlemen in our group demonstrated the difference between open carry, concealed carry as viewed in his home state (where even printing is prohibited!!??!!??!!) and Denver concealed carry.

    Open carry, the sidearm is clearly out in the open. Concealed carry in his home state, no evidence of the handgun whatsoever - not even the outline (printing) showing to an outside observer. Then Denver carry, where even a real thin shirt covering the weapon, clearly and obviously visible under the clothing, is just peachy dandy!

    This demonstration (and you just hadda be there) brought gales of laughter from those at the table!

    In the case where a small part of the pistol was covered, I'd have asked the person wanting to know if I had a permit whether he was an LEO? Had he said no, then I'd have asked "have you a license to practice law?"
    Had he said yes, I'd have demanded to know what statute backed his claim.
    Either way, I suspect the encounter would have concluded rapidly.

    Just shows to go ya... some folks have opinions that are as helpful as a pay toilet in a diarrhea clinic! Not to mention, just about as welcome!

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 03-03-2012 at 11:36 AM.

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