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Thread: 1st time gun owner

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    Regular Member BionicRooster's Avatar
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    1st time gun owner

    Let me begin by making it clear, I am no stranger to firearm safety and shooting. As a teen, I had a friend who's dad had well over 100 guns. I mean seriously. When ya walked into the double-wide(yes, they fit the bill for being rednecks ;o) 1st thing you saw was a shotgun/rifle standing upright in 95% of the corners around every room. Pistols stripped down for cleaning on the coffee table, magazines of all types littered about. To make a long intro short, I fired many, many rounds, out there on their property.

    I am now 34, live in Independence, and decided to buy a little pistol for protection and occasional plinking. After much reading online, I bought a Walther P22, knowing that it would most likely be picky on ammo.

    1st time to the range, I shot the 100 rounds of Remington Gold Bullets I purchased at the time of the gun, and got a bag of 50 from the counter. Apparently they sell Federal for .22's at the range, and I loaded clip, shot, jam, clear, shoot, jam. Repeat for 5 rounds. I took the remaining rounds back to the nice lady, and purchased a 100 pack of CCI from the [other] gun store counter. I now know to avoid Federals, since all 100 Remingtons and all 100 CCI's shot with no issues whatsoever, even when unloading as fast as I possibly could. When cocked, the Walther's trigger is surprisingly light.

    I have been reading the forums threads here(and watching videos) since I bought my pistol, and I really wanna make sure I'm perfectly clear on the local law...

    So, is it perfectly legal for me to OC, without permit, and loaded, in Independence?

    I do plan on taking the CCW class within the next month or so, but would like to open carry until then.

    Thanks for all your help and valuable info!

    Jeff

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    Regular Member G30Mike's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum! I think its great to see new gun owners!
    But......

    I'm curious to know why you would want to carry a .22 lr. Are you looking to OC as a "statement" or for self defense?
    .22 IMO, is not a viable self defense round. Personally I wouldn't carry anything less than a 9 minimeter. I currently OC a Glock 30 which is a .45 ACP.

    Best advice I have for you, since I don't know the laws in Independence personally because I never go there anymore, is to check the local code for yourself or ask a competent attorney.

    Secondly, pick yourself up a bigger caliber weapon for self defense. The P-22 is great for range plinking, but I would never trust my life to it.

    Please don't take my post as an insult, as its great that you want to OC, but I'm sure a lot of people will agree with my opinion of the .22 for self defense.

    Stay safe!
    "Ever notice once in a while you come across somebody you shouldn't have f***ed with......That's me." -Clint Eastwood "Gran Torino"

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    Regular Member BionicRooster's Avatar
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    I take no offense at all, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I do plan to pick up a larger caliber, like a .380, at a later time.

    No, I'm not trying to make a statement, just trying to get used to the act of carrying in general.

    I'm not too concerned about a .22 not being big enough, as the mere sight alone will be a deterrent, and, god forbid I have to actually pull it out and fire, I have decent enough aim to be able to empty a clip into someone in under 2 seconds. (2 inch grouping normal fire rate, approx 5 inch grouping rapid fire, both at 30ft)

    Not wanting to start a caliber war, but in any case, I myself would prefer not to be shot by ANY caliber, be it a .22 or a .50, and I would think a majority of people out there would feel the same. See a gun, stop doing whatever it is yer doin', and get the f@$k outta Dodge.

    But in any case, I will be "upgrading" at some point, just would like to get used to it and also gauge my community. I've already talked to the ThriftWay market around the corner, and the manager said they fully support it, and even added, "...then we'll be on even grounds." lol

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    "A .22 in your pocket is better than a .45 at home"

    Personally, I wouldn't carry a .22, but if that's the gun that you'll actually carry then that's the one you need. Firearms are very much dependent on personal opinion and feel. My #1 recommendation is to go to a range that rents guns and rent several different guns from both different manufacturers and calibers. I did this before buying my carry pistol and am very glad I did. Everything from the Walther you have now (which is a great choice for plinking, btw) to Glock, Springfield Armory, Taurus, S&W, Sig Sauer, etc; .380, 9mm, 10mm, .40, .45, etc.

    If you're worried that maybe you bought the wrong gun (again, this is UP TO YOU!), know that both Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's have great gun trade-in policies. I know myself and my dad have both traded more guns than I can count at those places.

    All that being said, I'll go ahead and give my opinion on what I prefer and why. I went to a range that rents guns and rented all of the brands/calibers I mentioned above except 10mm b/c they didn't have anything chambered for it. Also, before I went there I researched field stripping and cleaning all of them too, as well as reliability, ergonomics, function, looks, customizations, etc. After shooting ~50 rounds out of all of them, I decided I liked the Glock best, because of its feel in my hand and incredibly simple operation. I also picked 9mm because I felt I could get back on target faster for a follow up shot than with the other calibers. That said, I'm looking at going to a 10mm when I can afford it since my shooting skills have improved since then.

    Bottom line: do what's best for you, your situation, and your skill level. Period.
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    Welcome BionicRooster. I live in Independence and have a letter from the city counselor and police chief that it is legal to open carry in Independence. I would be happy to share it with you if you'd like.

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    Regular Member BionicRooster's Avatar
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    I would appreciate that very much.

    So, we're not like Cali, where it has to be unloaded, right? I would think it's stupid to force someone to spend the extra few seconds, or more depending on the situation, popping out the empty clip just to load a full one. Those few seconds could mean the difference between life or death.

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    You can carry loaded with extra clips. Just watch out for the no weapon signs...

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    Regular Member BionicRooster's Avatar
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    Thank you very much, you've been most helpful

    Oh, what about in a car, can you OC w/o permit? Or does it have to be in glove box?

    I don't wanna get myself into any unnecessary trouble.
    Last edited by BionicRooster; 03-03-2012 at 04:00 PM.

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    Regular Member G30Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BionicRooster View Post
    Thank you very much, you've been most helpful

    Oh, what about in a car, can you OC w/o permit? Or does it have to be in glove box?

    I don't wanna get myself into any unnecessary trouble.
    In the car you are good to go OC or even CC. Now, if you CC in the car and you are asked to step out, then you're illegal. When I get in the car I usually take mine off and put it in my "glovebox holster", because I carry at 4 o'clock and its uncomfortable when I'm in the car. In MO, as long as youre 21 or over you can have a concealable firearm in the car with you. Here are a few rules for car carry in the state....
    "Ever notice once in a while you come across somebody you shouldn't have f***ed with......That's me." -Clint Eastwood "Gran Torino"

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    "A .22 in your pocket is better than a .45 at home"

    Personally, I wouldn't carry a .22, but if that's the gun that you'll actually carry then that's the one you need.
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

  11. #11
    Regular Member BionicRooster's Avatar
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    Okay, all questions answered and everything is all cleared up. Thank you all for being so helpful.

    Maybe one of these times, I might be able to get out to a meet n' greet.

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    Welcome to the wild world of firearms forums!

    One item to note, the vast majority of persons claiming a .22 is not an effective self defense firearm have in common ........

    They have never been shot with one!

    Now on your choice of firearm, there sir I do have some issues. The p-22 has some real sketchy history in the reliability category, it simply varies a lot, from work pretty darn good to breaking down within 500 rounds. This is an important criteria for a carry weapon as you do not want to find yourself in the world of a gun fight with a piece of plastic to throw at or hit those who seek to harm you.

    In the world of carry arms you will find the leading brands are Glock, Springfield, S&W. Now There will be arguments about Sig, H&K, Para etc, ut I am speaking to modern combat design and what you are going to find as the MOST POPULAR not the "best" and they sit in those positions because you can shoot thousands of rounds through them with little to no maintenance and they are almost 100% that round 2,001 is going to go boom.

    The 1911 format can perform at that same level, but few out of the box will. They are much more of a "tweaker" meaning folks adjust them to suit the purpose. You can take a Springfield "Loaded" model out of the box and put 500 through it likely without a hitch. The Sprinfield XD you can likely do 5,000. Same with most Glock's.

    Do a lot of research before you make a final decision on your carry arm. There is MERIT to those stating 22 is not a great choice. A Carhart jacket over a denim shirt might well be adequate body armor against it, but I am not going to volunteer for testing!

    IMHO a .380 is a fine choice... for deep conceal carry where it is critical you remain able to appear unarmed so as not to offend.

    I prefer the extra wallop of a .45, I also have a sub-compact .9 I like as well. Arguably the .357 mag revolver has some of the most serious of impacts, but flirting with weights measured in pounds vs ounces, it is indeed more of a special occasion carry, lots of LEO's for lots of years depended upon them every day.

    Since you are choosing a tool for a life and death situation should it arise, understand that situation is indeed combat and I would suggest you follow the lead of those who have experienced enough combat to know what is needed and consider one of the caliber's and arms they choose so you do not have to do your own testing.

    650 bucks will get you a nice combat rig new, for around 500 you can get one used, might even get lucky and find one near 400 if someone is tired of it and in a tight spot seeking a fast sale. Though not a fan myself for ergonomic reasons, you might want to put some serious thought and research into Glock's and try them at the range, they REALLY fit some folks well and have outstanding performance, not to mention a gazillion folks who can work on them and tune them to suit you should you so choose. Undoubtedly, the easiest modern firearm to get fitted to your liking.

    Good luck with your p-22, as you have found ammo that runs well, have a blast with it, they are a real fun firearm. There are a lot of guys here from the KC area, you will likely quickly find a shooting buddy. I hope you never have to use it for anything but fun and that goes for all firearms, walk in peace and pray you never need them,but protect your right to have them if you do!

    Welcome to the club!!
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member G30Mike's Avatar
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    Following LMTD's post, he's right, I wouldn't want to get shot with a .22 and have never been shot with one.
    I have however, been caught in the elbow by a fragmented 9mm and just to note, it was probably about the same size as a .22 when it was dug out. Funny thing is that after it hit me, my adrenaline was so much that I didn't even know I had been hit until my buddy told me I was bleeding.
    In case you're curious as to what happened....my ex girlfriend got with a scumbag drug dealer when we broke up, and needless to say he didn't like me trying to talk some sense into her so he waited one night at her brothers apt and followed me and my buddy in his car. He shot at us, hitting my buddies car 4 times. Once in my door, two went through the windshield past our heads and the one that got me hit the trunklid and came through the bottom of the back glass.
    This all happened in Gladstone, right behind WalMart, of all places.
    I was unable to fire back because after he shot, my buddy took off like a bat out of hell and the guy turned down a sidestreet, thus ending the confrontation.
    "Ever notice once in a while you come across somebody you shouldn't have f***ed with......That's me." -Clint Eastwood "Gran Torino"

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    Regular Member G30Mike's Avatar
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    Not a fun night for us.
    "Ever notice once in a while you come across somebody you shouldn't have f***ed with......That's me." -Clint Eastwood "Gran Torino"

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    Regular Member BionicRooster's Avatar
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    Holy crap on a stick! Glad everyone came out with their lives intact. Kinda crappy you still got hit in the elbow though.

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    Regular Member G30Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BionicRooster View Post
    Holy crap on a stick! Glad everyone came out with their lives intact. Kinda crappy you still got hit in the elbow though.
    Definitely...better than the head. Things like that just go to show you can never be too prepared. If you ever get up north, we have a great public range up here, one of the free Conservation ones, that I frequent. Id be happy to accompany you with any help you may need in the way of getting a great carry gun that fits you. There's a great local gun shop up here as well with decent prices, on guns at least. They also have an indoor range and rental guns.
    I make it to KC every once in a while, but haven't really been to many shops or ranges down there. Plus OC up here isn't too bad at all. I've only been stopped for one MWAG call and it went smoothly.
    Just let me know if I can help.
    "Ever notice once in a while you come across somebody you shouldn't have f***ed with......That's me." -Clint Eastwood "Gran Torino"

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    I'm going to be at the bowling alley in St Joseph, MO on King Hill Ave in the morning anyone know if they accept open carry? Thanks,,

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    Some .22 mag pistols can hold 30 rounds ! So, they are not a terrible choice. Quantity over quality is sometimes best.

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    Will a .22 kill someone? If you want to carry a P-22 be sure to use good reliable ammo such as the CCI Mini Mag and practice, practice, practice so you will be able to use good shot placement.

    http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/cr...z?v=1330554641
    Last edited by 9026543; 03-04-2012 at 08:20 AM.

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    Regular Member BionicRooster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9026543 View Post
    Will a .22 kill someone? If you want to carry a P-22 be sure to use good reliable ammo such as the CCI Mini Mag and practice, practice, practice so you will be able to use good shot placement.
    I have already considered that, and do plan on always carrying CCI's in it, and use Remington Gold's for practice, as they have been FTF and jam free thus far. In fact, I made it a point to keep 2 clips worth of CCI's last time I went to range, and they haven't left the clip.

    One question I have tho, is, round tipped or hollow points? I would think round tips would have a better chance of penetrating thicker clothing. I could be wrong since I'm nowhere close to being a gun buff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BionicRooster View Post
    One question I have tho, is, round tipped or hollow points? I would think round tips would have a better chance of penetrating thicker clothing. I could be wrong since I'm nowhere close to being a gun buff.
    Normally, I'd say hollow point. But being that it's a much smaller round I think you may be correct in using full metal jacket rounds because of the clothing penetration issue. It may also be wise to switch for winter/summer. Hollow points in summer, and FMJ in the winter.
    "Somebody ever tries to kill you, you try and kill em right back!" - Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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    Regular Member BionicRooster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oramac View Post
    ...It may also be wise to switch for winter/summer. Hollow points in summer, and FMJ in the winter.

    Ya know, that's not a half bad idear there

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    My wife switches from FMJ to HP from winter to summer for her .380.

    For a .22 even the HP's Ive seen have an extemely small hole to be considered HP. I'm not sure I would much worry about that small hole being plugged by clothing, etc. I would think it would act like a FMJ through fluffy coats, etc.

    I dunno though. With .22LR I think if I was carrying for self defense I would stick with the nicest FMJ rounds possible. Even expanded there isn't a lot there to make a "big" hole with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BionicRooster View Post
    Ya know, that's not a half bad idear there
    Or get REAL good at "moving head shots" then the clothing is not such an issue!

    With the extremely low recoil of a 22, practicing tripple taps would not be a bad idea either. You can bust three rounds out of a 22 pretty darn fast, a lot better than you can with a p3at 380 I would have to say three times as fast IMHO.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member BionicRooster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Or get REAL good at "moving head shots" then the clothing is not such an issue!

    With the extremely low recoil of a 22, practicing tripple taps would not be a bad idea either. You can bust three rounds out of a 22 pretty darn fast, a lot better than you can with a p3at 380 I would have to say three times as fast IMHO.
    I may do that when I go out to my friend's house out in the boonies, set up a rigged, moving target and practice, practice, practice.

    And since the holster I ordered arrived today, I can finally OC, and head to the range to practice my draw + triple tap.

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