How to "gift" a gun to a family member?

Thundar · Mar 6, 2012

Privacy is part of the gift

Just remember part of the gift is breaking the "registration" chain for the gun. No FFL, no record. No record no government knowledge.

Yup, privacy from government is part of a private firearm gift.

Red Dawg · Mar 6, 2012

Sorry, but no need to worry over stupid crap. Handgun registration is not requested/required/wanted/needed, or on radar. Give the girl her gun. PERIOD. Until she tries to get a mother may i permission slip for CHP/CCW/whatever from whatever state she decides, there is no need for silly paperwork. OR worries.
If there is some obscure law stating otherwise, I see no reason this is an issue.

davidmcbeth · Mar 6, 2012

I sure she'll enjoy her "new" handgun :

View attachment 8072

peter nap · Mar 6, 2012

Red Dawg said:
Sorry, but no need to worry over stupid crap. Handgun registration is not requested/required/wanted/needed, or on radar. Give the girl her gun. PERIOD. Until she tries to get a mother may i permission slip for CHP/CCW/whatever from whatever state she decides, there is no need for silly paperwork. OR worries.
If there is some obscure law stating otherwise, I see no reason this is an issue.

I heard a story once about a son that bought a handgun for his father in another state.
He transferred it by wrapping it up and saying, "Happy Birthday Dad".

That's just what I heard mind you and if I recall, the world didn't end, storm troopers didn't pick it up on the mind scanners and life continued as usual.

That's just what I heard :uhoh:

Thundar · Mar 7, 2012

Red Dawg said:
Sorry, but no need to worry over stupid crap. Handgun registration is not requested/required/wanted/needed, or on radar. Give the girl her gun. PERIOD. Until she tries to get a mother may i permission slip for CHP/CCW/whatever from whatever state she decides, there is no need for silly paperwork. OR worries.
If there is some obscure law stating otherwise, I see no reason this is an issue.

Red Dawg: Registration is in quotes because we know there is no formal firearms registration in the Commonwealth of Virginia, except for Machine Guns, but there is a paper trail that the gun police try to follow.

A private transfer breaks the paperwork trail, and thus is the extra gift to those to whom the firearm is privately transferred.

You are right about the paperwork being silly.

If we had better politicians in Virginia, we would have constitutional carry, and there wouldn't be any fees or paperwork for concealing either.

1911 Enthusiast · Mar 7, 2012

peter nap said:
That's just what I heard :uhoh:

What's your son's name?

user · Mar 7, 2012

Thundar said:
Red Dawg: Registration is in quotes because we know there is no formal firearms registration in the Commonwealth of Virginia, except for Machine Guns, but there is a paper trail that the gun police try to follow.

A private transfer breaks the paperwork trail, and thus is the extra gift to those to whom the firearm is privately transferred.

You are right about the paperwork being silly.

If we had better politicians in Virginia, we would have constitutional carry, and there wouldn't be any fees or paperwork for concealing either.

A perfectly respectable position; however, I suggest you start saving up for your defense, and keep my phone number on a piece of paper in your wallet, just in case someone who's bought a gun from you commits a murder with it, and you can't prove it wasn't you because you don't have any paperwork; or on the other hand, you buy a good deal only to be charged with the murder or robbery in which the "good deal" was used to shoot someone, and again, you can't prove it wasn't you because you don't have any paperwork. There's a big difference, in my mind, between "paperwork" that's in my own files and that which is in a government database.

mk4 · Mar 7, 2012

user said:
A perfectly respectable position; however, I suggest you start saving up for your defense, and keep my phone number on a piece of paper in your wallet, just in case someone who's bought a gun from you commits a murder with it, and you can't prove it wasn't you because you don't have any paperwork; or on the other hand, you buy a good deal only to be charged with the murder or robbery in which the "good deal" was used to shoot someone, and again, you can't prove it wasn't you because you don't have any paperwork. There's a big difference, in my mind, between "paperwork" that's in my own files and that which is in a government database.

THIS!

my brother and i hold "paperwork", in our private files, on an item i transferred to him. and, i'll help him with private paperwork should he decide to dispose of his private property in the future. we'll always be covered that way. btw... thanks, user, for the BoS template.

Red Dawg · Mar 7, 2012

Look, we have all been accused of being the "old timers club". We are from a time when there was just "go get what you need". My point being, there is no need to worry over the silliness of giving someone a gun, or of being given a gun. We can worry about if and buts, and candy and nuts. If you don't shoot someone with a gun, then there is a pretty darn good chance you will not be put in the pokey for the murder. Just having a gun that may have been used in a crime does not make you a criminal. I learned this on here about 6-7 months ago. I started thinking and looking at the facts..
User, I respect your opinion, and agree for 99.9999% of what you said, always, but, there is no need, or requirement for any paperwork to pass a gun down to your kid, or up to your dad...
Of course all this goes downhill if you are trying to get a handgun in DC. I would only get a gun from an FFL, Brand New...Poor people in DC...

OH, and I do have Mr User's contact info in my cell, with the ICE designation.

Thundar · Mar 7, 2012

user said:
A perfectly respectable position; however, I suggest you start saving up for your defense, and keep my phone number on a piece of paper in your wallet, just in case someone who's bought a gun from you commits a murder with it, and you can't prove it wasn't you because you don't have any paperwork; or on the other hand, you buy a good deal only to be charged with the murder or robbery in which the "good deal" was used to shoot someone, and again, you can't prove it wasn't you because you don't have any paperwork. There's a big difference, in my mind, between "paperwork" that's in my own files and that which is in a government database.

Can't happen to me because I am a licensed manufacturer, so all of my sales are on the books. Good point about private paperwork.

Just wondering, how could people around here document their fishing accidents?

DrMark · Mar 7, 2012

user said:
A perfectly respectable position; however, I suggest you start saving up for your defense, and keep my phone number on a piece of paper in your wallet, just in case someone who's bought a gun from you commits a murder with it, and you can't prove it wasn't you because you don't have any paperwork; or on the other hand, you buy a good deal only to be charged with the murder or robbery in which the "good deal" was used to shoot someone, and again, you can't prove it wasn't you because you don't have any paperwork. There's a big difference, in my mind, between "paperwork" that's in my own files and that which is in a government database.

I'm not following this at all. Could you explain?

Are you suggesting there's a reasonable likelihood of being charged with murder, even when there's no evidence that you committed a murder, just because a document with an FFL shows who a gun (used in a murder) was originally sold to?

Has this ever happened?

user · Mar 7, 2012

DrMark said:
I'm not following this at all. Could you explain?

Are you suggesting there's a reasonable likelihood of being charged with murder, even when there's no evidence that you committed a murder, just because a document with an FFL shows who a gun (used in a murder) was originally sold to?

Has this ever happened?

Well, let's see. You're in possession of the murder weapon. You can't explain where you were, exactly, between 10 o'clock and midnight on the evening of February 6 of this year. You have the gun, now, and can't prove that you did not have it then. That's at least probable cause. Of course, it's all circumstantial evidence, but then, circumstantial evidence is admissible evidence, subject to a special jury instruction that says that circumstantial evidence has to be consistent with guilt and inconsistent with other reasonable and plausible theories that explain the circumstances. So, yes, I am suggesting that.

I can't point to a specific instance of it's ever having happened exactly that way, but let me ask you this: have you ever seen one of those documentaries about people having been wrongfully accused of murder, sent to prison for life, and then exonerated because after twenty years or so someone had enough perserverance to prove that they could not possibly have been guilty of the crime? Do you imagine that this could not happen to you? Do you live in the Magic Kingdom?

(Please excuse the sarcasm, it was not intended personally, but it is intended to help the people who read this stuff and never post by shocking them into sensibility.)

DrMark · Mar 7, 2012

user said:
Well, let's see. You're in possession of the murder weapon. You can't explain where you were, exactly, between 10 o'clock and midnight on the evening of February 6 of this year. You have the gun, now, and can't prove that you did not have it then. That's at least probable cause. Of course, it's all circumstantial evidence, but then, circumstantial evidence is admissible evidence, subject to a special jury instruction that says that circumstantial evidence has to be consistent with guilt and inconsistent with other reasonable and plausible theories that explain the circumstances. So, yes, I am suggesting that.

I can't point to a specific instance of it's ever having happened exactly that way, but let me ask you this: have you ever seen one of those documentaries about people having been wrongfully accused of murder, sent to prison for life, and then exonerated because after twenty years or so someone had enough perserverance to prove that they could not possibly have been guilty of the crime? Do you imagine that this could not happen to you? Do you live in the Magic Kingdom?

(Please excuse the sarcasm, it was not intended personally, but it is intended to help the people who read this stuff and never post by shocking them into sensibility.)

I suppose anything at all could happen to me, but it seems to be quite a string of improbabilities.

I'd have to weigh that against the risks that come with the BOS concept.

mk4 · Mar 7, 2012

DrMark said:
I suppose anything at all could happen to me, but it seems to be quite a string of improbabilities.

I'd have to weigh that against the risks that come with the BOS concept.

interested in your take on this... what risks?

DrMark · Mar 7, 2012

mk4 said:
interested in your take on this... what risks?

I'm hesitant about providing PII (Personally Identifiable Information) such as name, address, DL number, etc. to strangers, particularly when I have just identified myself as a gun owner. I think identity theft and targeted burglaries are more likely than elaborate frame-ups for murder.

I've noticed several buyers/sellers on vaguntrader.com have similar concerns, and safeguarding that information is consistent with the training I've received from our security/legal team at work.

As with much in life, we pick our risks and drive on...

speed41ae · Mar 7, 2012

DrMark said:
I'm not following this at all. Could you explain?

I will throw out a couple of scenarios for you also.

First guy buys a handgun and 3 years later kills someone with it. He throws it into a lake. When it is traced to him, he tells the police that he sold to someone a year ago.

Second guy buys a handgun and sells to someone 2 years later. The person that he sold it kills someone a year later. When it is traced to the original owner, he tells the police that he sold to someone a year ago.

Both guys are most likely going to need a lawyer.

mk4 · Mar 8, 2012

thanks, both of you, for your perspectives.

my personal experience is i've got 2 BoSs. one is with my brother using User's template. other than name, address and phone#, there's no pii like dl#, ssn or other id #s. regardless, it's my brother and i've got no worries on it. the other was a private purchase, private seller. we used a similar form, and again only name, address and ph#. we looked at each other's dls to verify, but recorded nothing from it. if i had gotten any strange vibe during the sale, i'd have walked, but it was fine and i'm not concerned.

all that said, i understand where you're coming from. and you're right, we pick our risks.

The Airframer · Mar 8, 2012

mk4 said:
thanks, both of you, for your perspectives.

, it's my brother and i've got no worries on it...

all that said, i understand where you're coming from. and you're right, we pick our risks.

My dad really isn't the 25" rims bearing, gang color flashing, drug dealing murderous type. Don't envision him knocking over any stop n robs or murdering anyone. I believe if I gave him the gun and if he uses it against anyone, it would be 101% justified. I've got no worries on it.

Grapeshot · Mar 8, 2012

The Airframer said:
Thanks user, I may look into buying it in NC to avoid the paperwork if possible.

In NC to buy or otherwise receive a handgun, you must first secure a permit to purchase from the local sheriff office.

"You must obtain a valid pistol permit whether you receive the weapon from a commercial dealer or a private person. The requirement also applies without regard to whether it is a transaction for money or a gift.

It is a misdemeanor to sell or otherwise dispose of a handgun without first obtaining a pistol permit from the recipient of the pistol."

The is a long list of qualifiers.
http://www.wakegov.com/sheriff/citizens/pistol_permits.htm

Marco · Mar 8, 2012

DrMark said:
I'm hesitant about providing PII (Personally Identifiable Information) such as name, address, DL number, etc. to strangers, particularly when I have just identified myself as a gun owner. I think identity theft and targeted burglaries are more likely than elaborate frame-ups for murder.

I've noticed several buyers/sellers on vaguntrader.com have similar concerns, and safeguarding that information is consistent with the training I've received from our security/legal team at work.

As with much in life, we pick our risks and drive on...

1+
PII should be protected.

If Buyer/seller agree that a BoS is needed it should have limited info, imho.
With this info for both parties:
First, last, city, and contact # (work or cell# for strangers), make model, #serial and date ownership was transferred.

Do I think a BOS is needed for all sales, nope.

I have completed transactions with more than one person in this thread.
With one we did the above and with the other we both felt comfortable without a BoS.
Both of these folks were and are welcome into my home and I've been to there's.

I've walked away for transactions because a buyer/seller wanted too much PII.
There are folks that want to copy your DL#/DL(ID) and those that won't sell unless you produce a CHP/Voter's reg card.

Those folks can keep their money and/or their items...

For siblings/parents that were gifted firearms No BOS.
In my family we don't sell/give away gifts that is considered rude and unappreciative, however they can be handed down.

How to "gift" a gun to a family member?

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