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Privately selling a firearm to....

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
If you were offering to sell me a firearm, and I wanted to buy said firearm, I would allow you to look at my ID to determine that I was a resident of your state, and that I was of legal age to buy. However, if you tried to make a copy or record my personal information, the deal is off. At an FFL, I know that their privacy policy is, and what happens to the information. Those things are specified by Federal law. there is NO WAY IN HELL that I am giving you, a stranger, access to record my personal identifying information.

I hate to tell you okie, but your drivers license or other state issued ID is a matter of public record. The information is already available. As for the deal being off, that would be ok with me also.
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
I hate to tell you okie, but your drivers license or other state issued ID is a matter of public record. The information is already available. As for the deal being off, that would be ok with me also.

1) Cite? At least in my state, that information can only be released in certain circumstances, authorized by statute. In any event, how would you go about finding that information regarding the person you just sold a weapon to unless you recorded the information at the time of sale?
2) While the information may be public, the information + the information on the gun he now owns are most certainly not.
 

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
I hate being wrong

You do not need a guilty mind to be criminally liable. The law is a strict liability. You broke the law because you sold it to someone that does not reside in your state. That is all the US Attorney would have to prove.
In a crime of strict liability (criminal) or absolute liability, a person could be guilty even if there was no intention to commit a crime


Reading the condensed version of a statute is not what one should do. I was incorrect. It is NOT a strict liability issue.
It is illegal for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to
transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to
any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the
transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not
reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in
which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall
not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a
firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an
acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who
is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of
the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a
firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting
purposes;

The "knows or has reasonble cause to believe" makes all the difference. I read a condensed version and I should have known better!
 

flb_78

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2010
Messages
544
Location
Gravel Switch, KY
I hate to tell you okie, but your drivers license or other state issued ID is a matter of public record. The information is already available. As for the deal being off, that would be ok with me also.

I agree with Okie, I'd let you look at my license, but I would not allow you to photocopy it.

Would you photocopy someone's CCDW if they used that for ID or would that suffice to prove they were legal?
 

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
I agree with Okie, I'd let you look at my license, but I would not allow you to photocopy it.

Would you photocopy someone's CCDW if they used that for ID or would that suffice to prove they were legal?

Sure, I would use a CCDW as proof of residency. I am not sure why a photocopy of your drivers license would bother anyone. It has no information that cannot be gathered from the internet. All I would be doing is trying to protect my interest. When you purchase a car from a dealership you give a copy of you license, why would it be so inconsistent to give a copy when you purchase a handgun, it protects the seller from any ambitious LEO.
 

ManInBlack

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
1,551
Location
SW Idaho
Sure, I would use a CCDW as proof of residency. I am not sure why a photocopy of your drivers license would bother anyone. It has no information that cannot be gathered from the internet.


Maybe so, maybe no. I already pointed out that, at least in one state, disclosure of DL info is governed by statute, to which you have failed to respond. I also pointed out that you can't just google information on "guy who bought a gun from me earlier today." The point is that even if DL information were publicly and easily available, it still wouldn't be linked to gun ownership, which is critical.

When you purchase a car from a dealership you give a copy of you license, why would it be so inconsistent to give a copy when you purchase a handgun, it protects the seller from any ambitious LEO.

Umm, because we aren't talking about dealers and the government isn't involved, not yet anyway. Logic fail.
 

09jisaac

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Messages
1,692
Location
Louisa, Kentucky
You're comparing a private sale of guns to a dealer sale of a car. Maybe it is best to do private sales on both sides. I don't even show my license to anyone I am buying a car off of, let alone let them photocopy it.
 

KYGlockster

Activist Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
1,842
Location
Ashland, KY
Would you bet your freedom on it? Police everywhere use non-police in stings precisely because they don't look like they could possibly be police.

i would not bet my freedoms on anything, however I would bet on the fact that this man was not with the ATF. I observed his actions and the actions of the people he was with. I watched what they were buying, how they were observing items, and conversation they were having. Criminals get caught because their stupid. Mostly criminals dont care if they get caught, the dont want to, but if they do they do. I have never met anyone with a criminal record that was very observant, nor very intelligent. Not that I would have bought the gun and sold it to him or anything, I am merely stating the facts of the situation.
 

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
"That might protect me from an "ambitious LEO".

And all I am worried about is protecting me. I guess it's a wash. Everyone has there own way of protecting or not protecting themselves. I have watched people be convicted just because they failed to document or record. Just trying to help.
 
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