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Thread: Recommend a beginner gun class?

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    Recommend a beginner gun class?

    What I'm looking for is a very basic handgun class for someone that's never really handled a gun before (other then shooting off a couple of .22 rifles at camp 16 years ago). So everything from "Don't point it at people" to the basic parts/assembly and range time. I'm in Milwaukee and it seems the only real options for ranges are The Shooters Shop and Fletcher Arms. I talked to Bob that works out of Fletcher and the course he does is exactly what I'm looking for, however, he's booked up for the next three weeks or so. He did refer me to someone named Craig who I haven't had a chance to call yet. I figured before I make any more calls I would ask here.*

    So, does anyone know this Craig that Bob Llanas would have referred me to? Does The Shooters Shop teach a class like this?

    I'd always said that I wanted to learn to use a handgun purely for target shooting and that was it, but a recent incident at work (we got held up**) has me rethinking that so I'd like to get some training in so that I can rent a few guns, see what I'm comfortable with and think about buying one.



    *I have had plenty of my questions answered here before I registered, I've been lurking around here for a few months

    **Having a gun when we got held up, due to my location relative to the robber (in back, but I could see him) wouldn't have done anything unless he had come looking for people in the backroom but he was in and out in about 20 or 30 seconds. In fact, I grabbed a gun we had hidden in the office, but decided that a combination of it having not been used or even touched in 15 years and me not having any idea whatsoever as to what I was doing made me put it back. Besides, by then it was over and the cops had arrived. And for the record, even if I had a gun, I would have done exactly the same thing. Stayed hidden in back calling 911.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Sometimes being a good witness is the best decision.....even if you are well trained.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Sometimes being a good witness is the best decision.....even if you are well trained.
    My cashier made a great witness (or as good as one could be all things considered)...the ski mask posed a bit of a problem though.

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    Regular Member Yetiman's Avatar
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    Call mike at Shorty's in West Allis. He can take care of you even though he doesn't have a live fire range in house.
    http://shortysshootingsports.com/

    Also Gander Mountain might have a course like that these days with either live or simulated fire.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    MKEgal, Grant Guess, and Shotgun all teach classes. There may be more, but I do not know off hand.
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  6. #6
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
    What I'm looking for is a very basic handgun class for someone that's never really handled a gun before
    I would recommend either the NRA Basic Pistol Course or First Steps Pistol Course. The First Steps courses are designed to give more personal instruction because they are meant to be given to 1-3 at a time. These are good thorough and safe courses.

    I teach these, as does Glockgirl, but you may find other instructors closer to you. One can search for any NRA courses currently offered in your vicinity (or anywhere in the country) right here:

    http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

    Good luck!
    A. Gold

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    I would recommend either the NRA Basic Pistol Course or First Steps Pistol Course. The First Steps courses are designed to give more personal instruction because they are meant to be given to 1-3 at a time. These are good thorough and safe courses.

    I teach these, as does Glockgirl, but you may find other instructors closer to you. One can search for any NRA courses currently offered in your vicinity (or anywhere in the country) right here:

    http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

    Good luck!
    I've looked at NRA classes (which also appears to be what MKEGal does), those, as you know, are 8-10 hour classes which are difficult for me to get to since it would mean taking a day off of work and/or finding someone to watch my daughter all day. A 2-3 hour class is a bit easier to wedge into my schedule. Also, it looks they've added some classes, but the last time I glanced at the schedule the only class on the roster was at Badger Guns (Brew City Shooter's Supply). Being new to this, that seemed like a place to stay away from.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Yetiman's Avatar
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    Have you called Shorty's ?

    They have a 4 hour class, typically on Tuesday evening or Saturday afternoon which will cover what you are asking about and more.

  9. #9
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
    I've looked at NRA classes (which also appears to be what MKEGal does), those, as you know, are 8-10 hour classes which are difficult for me to get to since it would mean taking a day off of work and/or finding someone to watch my daughter all day. A 2-3 hour class is a bit easier to wedge into my schedule. Also, it looks they've added some classes, but the last time I glanced at the schedule the only class on the roster was at Badger Guns (Brew City Shooter's Supply). Being new to this, that seemed like a place to stay away from.
    NRA's "First Steps" is designed to be about 3 hours in length. Or, I'm sure some instructors would be willing to custom-design introductory training.
    A. Gold

    Failure to comply may result in discipline up to and including termination.
    The free man is a warrior. - Nietzsche "Twilight of the Idols"

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    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    I will not be back to SE Wisconsin until Spring, but my recommendation is NRA First Steps (NRA required instructor to student ratio is 1:1). The course can take 3 - 4 hours including range time. Next would be the NRA Basic Pistol Course. This course can be taught in about 6 - 8 hours (recommended is 8 hours) and the range work is more extensive and involves working with the student until they can qualify for the NRA-Winchester Marksmanship Basic Practical Rocker.

    When I do return to SE Wisconsin for a visit, I will be teaching NRA Courses as requested, Utah Concealed Firearm Permit and WI CWL courses (if needed). I have also been asked by several students who have attended my classes to teach advanced courses that include "double tap" shooting.

    The Yellow Cat is well known in the SE Wisconsin carry community.

    www.yellowcatpersonaldefense.com
    My cats support the Second Amendment. NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, & Personal Protection - NRA Certified Range Safety Officer, Utah BCI Certified Concealed Firearm Permit Instructor.
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    Well, I just managed to acquire a Glock 22. I was out talking to a friend of mine (one of my dad's close friends) and I was telling him about the hold up and how I had coincidentally just earlier that day been looking into learning to shoot and he handed me the gun and told me to read up and take it shooting. There was more to it then that of course. He's a gun nut and offered to teach me everything I need to know and I have every intention of taking him up on that offer as soon as I can. In the mean time I'm still going to keep my eyes open for some classes I can take around here and I still have some calls to make (which he very much encouraged). Also I don't own a single bullet so the most dangerous thing I can do with it right now appears to be pinching myself in the slide or taking it apart and not getting it back together again. I did get it field stripped/reassembled just to get more comfortable with it.

    Now, I just need to pick up a case for it. Am I correct in understanding (WRT the law) that I don't need to worry about it being a locking case? Do any ranges/shops require the gun to be locked? Any recommendations? Looking around on Amazon I'm surprised to see how cheap (random example) they are but I have no idea if the quality is any good. Even the one on the NRA website is only $20.

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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
    Well, I just managed to acquire a Glock 22. I was out talking to a friend of mine (one of my dad's close friends) and I was telling him about the hold up and how I had coincidentally just earlier that day been looking into learning to shoot and he handed me the gun and told me to read up and take it shooting. There was more to it then that of course. He's a gun nut and offered to teach me everything I need to know and I have every intention of taking him up on that offer as soon as I can. In the mean time I'm still going to keep my eyes open for some classes I can take around here and I still have some calls to make (which he very much encouraged). Also I don't own a single bullet so the most dangerous thing I can do with it right now appears to be pinching myself in the slide or taking it apart and not getting it back together again. I did get it field stripped/reassembled just to get more comfortable with it.

    Now, I just need to pick up a case for it. Am I correct in understanding (WRT the law) that I don't need to worry about it being a locking case? Do any ranges/shops require the gun to be locked? Any recommendations? Looking around on Amazon I'm surprised to see how cheap (random example) they are but I have no idea if the quality is any good. Even the one on the NRA website is only $20.
    If you have a Gander Mountain nearby you can pick up a gun rug for low bucks.
    Dave
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    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    If you have a Gander Mountain nearby you can pick up a gun rug for low bucks.

    Gander Mountain didn't even cross my mind. I have one very nearby. Next time I pass it (and have a few extra minutes) I'll stop in.

  14. #14
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
    Gander Mountain didn't even cross my mind. I have one very nearby. Next time I pass it (and have a few extra minutes) I'll stop in.
    You might want to price some snap caps (fake bullets that don't fire) so you can practice dry firing your new gun without damaging the firing pin to learn grip and trigger control. After that I might suggest a trip to Walmart for some Remington ear plugs and shooting safety glasses, so when the time comes for a hands-on training session you have the right equipment.

    Resist the urge to carry an empty gun. If you are mugged, they will take it from you and it will become a crime gun.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davegran View Post
    You might want to price some snap caps (fake bullets that don't fire) so you can practice dry firing your new gun without damaging the firing pin to learn grip and trigger control. After that I might suggest a trip to Walmart for some Remington ear plugs and shooting safety glasses, so when the time comes for a hands-on training session you have the right equipment.

    Resist the urge to carry an empty gun. If you are mugged, they will take it from you and it will become a crime gun.
    I'll look into those. I assume that they're not 'live' in any sense of the word, correct? Just a bullet shaped object and a spring to absorb the impact.

    Also, I have ear muffs (is that the right term, it always sounds wrong) and safety glasses that I use when I'm working with my angle grinder.

  16. #16
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    Joey, I also have safety glasses for my grinder, but they are not very clear after many years of use. Now I am using a full face shield for grinding and it is also getting cloudy.

    Safety glasses are inexpensive, I would strongly encourage you to have a set specifically for shooting. You want them as clear as possible, coated polycarb lenses that won't scratch easily.

    As for industrial "muff's" they will work. However, there are also several types of not very expensive hearing protectors that will allow you to hear when you are shooting, but will shut down the noise when it is over 85db.

    A specific setup just for when you are shooting (generally called a "range bag", doesn't have to be big if you are only shooting a pistol) can keep everything you need in one place so you don't forget anything when you go out to shoot.

    Good Luck, have fun.

  17. #17
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
    I'll look into those. I assume that they're not 'live' in any sense of the word, correct? Just a bullet shaped object and a spring to absorb the impact.

    ....
    Correct!
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    I read a couple of things about them and watched some youtube videos just to be absolutely sure before I picked them up, but I did get them. I got a pack of .40 S&W which I assume are the correct ones (for a Glock 22). I am having an issue though in that they don't eject on their own when I pull the slide back. Yes, I know the slide won't go back on it's own. I loaded them into the magazine, put the magazine into the gun, pulled the slide back to put one in the chamber, pulled the trigger and then when I pulled the slide back the snap cap just stayed in the chamber and the slide locked back as if the magazine was empty. The only way to clear it was to pull the slide back the rest of the way and lock it and then pull the magazine out and the one in the chamber would fall out with it. It was hanging up on the next one still in the magazine. If I load only one snap cap in and pull the trigger, when I pull the slide back I can sort of shake or tilt the gun to get it out.
    I've read that this is somewhat common with snap caps and some guns since the extractor has a hard time grabbing them.

  19. #19
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    NRA Snap Caps

    The NRA sells the snap caps that I use in training others. The NRA product is an actual cartridge casing, with no primer, no powder charge, and a blaze orange plastic bullet. I have never had a failure to eject and the NRA product is cheaper than Gander Mountain, Cabela's, or Bass Pro Shop.

    By the way, dry firing a Glock 22 with no snap cap is perfectly safe. The no dry fire rule applies to rim fire (.22LR etc) and some older style revolvers with fixed firing pins that could break off during dry fire (although I have not personally seen this happen). Rim fire pins can break or bend if dry fired.

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  20. #20
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    I'm in Milwaukee, & we've been PMing.
    Gary / Cobra is also an instructor in the area, though I'm not exactly sure where.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joey P
    I don't own a single bullet so the most dangerous thing I can do with it right now appears to be pinching myself in the slide or taking it apart and not getting it back together again.
    LOL! I think I like this guy.
    You forgot about dropping it on the cat, or your foot.

    Now, I just need to pick up a case for it. Am I correct in understanding (WRT the law) that I don't need to worry about it being a locking case? Do any ranges/shops require the gun to be locked?
    Correct, and not that I know of.
    I saw cases in Cablea's the other day that are triangular, & have a loop where if you want to lock it you can.
    (Just don't use a TSA-friendly lock on it when travelling.)
    I got a hard-sided case at Fleet Farm for something like $10 that can hold 2 full-size pistols. Looks a lot like this one: http://www.lapolicegear.com/plano-se-pistol-case.html
    And if you're just wanting to protect it from bumps & bruises while in transit, you can get a soft-sided case like this: http://www.lapolicegear.com/moc-dipl...stol-case.html
    I have one of those, & it's pretty nice, esp. for $10.

    ETA: To get the snap cap out, try inverting the pistol while working the slide.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-12-2012 at 02:19 AM.
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    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Failure to extract

    Quote Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
    I read a couple of things about them and watched some youtube videos just to be absolutely sure before I picked them up, but I did get them. I got a pack of .40 S&W which I assume are the correct ones (for a Glock 22). I am having an issue though in that they don't eject on their own when I pull the slide back. Yes, I know the slide won't go back on it's own. I loaded them into the magazine, put the magazine into the gun, pulled the slide back to put one in the chamber, pulled the trigger and then when I pulled the slide back the snap cap just stayed in the chamber and the slide locked back as if the magazine was empty. The only way to clear it was to pull the slide back the rest of the way and lock it and then pull the magazine out and the one in the chamber would fall out with it. It was hanging up on the next one still in the magazine. If I load only one snap cap in and pull the trigger, when I pull the slide back I can sort of shake or tilt the gun to get it out.
    I've read that this is somewhat common with snap caps and some guns since the extractor has a hard time grabbing them.
    The snap caps I have (9mm, .45ACP, and 7.62 x 39mm) are all perfect dimensional replicas of the real cartridges and function just like the real thing. You are having FTE (failure to extract) stoppages. It's good practice in case your gun jams, but your Glock may have an extractor problem. Check for a carbon buildup on the slide face or under the extractor, or a damaged extractor. Always load a round by using the magazine, never by pulling back the slide and placing a round in the chamber; this can cause damage to the extractor when the slide comes forward. With the gun stripped, you should be able to slide a round into position under the extractor from the same direction that it would come up from the magazine. The extractor should be able to hold the round in position if it is functioning properly.
    Dave
    45ACP-For when you care enough to send the very best-
    Fight for "Stand Your Ground " legislation!

    WI DA Gerald R. Fox:
    "These so-called 'public safety' laws only put decent law-abiding citizens at a dangerous disadvantage when it comes to their personal safety, and I for one am glad that this decades-long era of defective thinking on gun issues is over..."

    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

  22. #22
    Regular Member jpm84092's Avatar
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    Exclamation FTE - Failure to Eject

    I agree with Dave. A properly dimensioned snap cap will eject just like it was a real spent cartridge. And, in my experience, anything Glock is very reliable. The only time I have experienced substantial failure to eject problems was with some factory second ammo that expanded too much on firing and got stuck in the chamber. (I figured out the problem immediately because I needed a pocket knife or pick to remove the stuck expended cartridge.)

    With a snap cap, there is no expansion so either the snap caps you have are not dimensionally correct, or you have an ejector problem.

    To determine if it is just a dirty ejector, you can apply gun solvent (or my favorite is WD-40) and work the extractor with your finger as best you can. If the ejector feels "gritty" when cycled, it is due to "gunk". If it is free and the problem remains, take the Glock to a gunsmith or a Glock armorer. In the mean time, you are gaining valuable experience with firearm malfunctions. Above all, remember to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction (even when using snap caps) when clearing the failure to eject snap cap.

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  23. #23
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    I guess I forgot to update this thread.

    I took the gun shooting and it did the same thing. After doing some research I decided the problem was (as you said) something wrong with the ejector. Not knowing what an ejector looked like I field stripped the gun and looked for something that might be dirty, bent, broken, worn etc.. Everything looked just fine. So I looked for some diagrams of Glocks. They all showed an ejector but didn't show where it went and I couldn't see anything on the gun that looked like it. After that I watched a youtube video or two on detail stripping the gun, paying close attention to when they removed the ejector. That's when I realized that my gun was missing the ejector all together...that's the problem. I'll talk to the guy that gave it to me and see if he has it...hell, knowing him, if he doesn't have it, he'll probably just take the gun back and give me a different one, or tell me to buy an ejector and give me a second gun to use until then. He's pretty generous.

    I'd imagine most of you (or most people familar with Glocks would have noticed the problem immediately.

  24. #24
    Regular Member davegran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
    I guess I forgot to update this thread.

    .... After that I watched a youtube video or two on detail stripping the gun, paying close attention to when they removed the ejector. That's when I realized that my gun was missing the ejector all together...that's the problem....
    I believe that you mean, "extractor", not "ejector". The extractor pulls the cartridge out of the barrel and the ejector makes the cartridge pop out of the port. Depending on how many parts for the extractor are missing, you could need:

    Glock Extractor $29
    Glock Extractor Depressor Plunger $5
    Glock Extractor Depressor Plunger Spring $16
    Glock Spring-Loaded Bearing $14
    Dave
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    Remember: Don't make old People mad. We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off.

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    I very much did mean extractor (I was even careful to say extractor in other threads around the internet/PMs/IRL conversations when I talked about it.)

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