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Thread: Canadian visitor with OC questions

  1. 03-05-2012, 01:25 AM #1
    Steve Larson
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    Canadian visitor with OC questions

    Hello all. I searched but could not find my answers anywhere.
    Background: I am Canadian, planning on visiting Nevada a few times per year. I am an armored car guard, and a range officer at a shooting range, so I am responsible with firearms and use of force. I would like to carry in Nevada while visiting. I know that as I am not a US citizen or Resident Alien, that I can not CC.

    I have attempted to research all of the OC rules that I can on here, and read the stories... I read the pamphlet that was made up, and the first line reads "In Nevada, a person who can legally own a firearm may carry a firearm openly."

    I do have a form 6 NIA (allows me to temporarily import my firearms into the US). The way I understand all of the rules, is that, as I AM legally allowed to own/possess my firearms in the U.S, then I am allowed to follow the laws/lack of laws regarding OC in each state. Thus, I should be allowed to OC in Nevada.

    I sent an email to a sheriffs office in Las Vegas, and have not received a reply.

    Am I correct in my understanding of the laws? CAN I OC in Nevada while there?
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  2. 03-05-2012, 01:41 AM #2
    gmijackso
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    I am not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a holiday inn express last night, but yes you can carry OC here. As I recall, there is no exception for residence, even if it be out of country. The "legal to own a firearm" is generally aimed at "not an ex-felon" or other disqualifying characteristic (drug user, etc.). If I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will point out a cite I've managed to overlook, but again, as I recall there is nothing in the statutes about out of county residents being prohibited from carrying a firearm.
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  3. 03-05-2012, 06:33 PM #3
    Felid`Maximus
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    If you meet the federal requirements for possessing a firearm, then you can open carry it in Nevada. If indeed you are legally able to possess the firearm in the United States, it sounds like you should be fine.

    I am not knowledgeable on the federal criteria for possessing a gun as a resident of Canada or how the form you filled out effects federal law. If the federal law is satisfied there is nothing in Nevada law that restricts you if you are here legally.



    Although I don't know what the criteria is to be legal under federal law as an alien with a modern firearm, I am pretty certain that old blackpowder cap and ball firearms like the Remington 1858 revolver would be permissible since guns like that are totally out of the scope of federal regulation.

    Here is an interesting thread I ran into on the internet: http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19801

    It looks like you can even get non-resident concealed firearm permits in some states.

    The law in NV appears to me to be worded so that you could apply for a non-resident concealed firearm permit here, but if you wanted to carry concealed, there are probably better permits to get that Nevada recognizes since Nevada's permit is fairly expensive and not as well recognized as many of the permits we recognize. [Of course, no permit is needed to open carry.]
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 03-05-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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  4. 03-05-2012, 06:45 PM #4
    Steve Larson
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    The Form 6 NIA (Non immigrant alien) is the form that is filled out in order to temporarily import firearms into the US. It has me list each firearm I want to bring in, plus any ammunition. It is sent to the BATF and then faxed back to me with APPROVED stamped across it. The conditions for approval are that I have a valid hunting license from any state (no matter where I happen to be visiting) , or an invitation to a course or competitive event. Even in the BATF's own literature, they state that if I will be coming a few times per year, then it is easier just to use a hunting license, so then I only have to fill the Form 6 out once per year and it is valid for the entire year. Once approved, they don't care why I'm coming across, as long as I have a valid hunting license for any valid state. So, I went online, and purchased a ND non game license for $17 and got approved. This form is your federal government's way to get around one of their own laws that forbids importing of firearms so that they keep things simple/friendly for us Canadians who want to spend our hard earned dollars in your country.

    As I am allowed to now possess firearms in the US, then I guess I can open carry. YAY ME !!! I can't wait to sit in a restaurant somewhere, or in front of the LAS VEGAS sign, with either my CZ 85 or Glock 22 on my hip, and post a picture to my facebook to make my fellow Canadians jealous
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  5. 03-06-2012, 04:32 PM #5
    OC-moto450r
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  6. 03-06-2012, 05:12 PM #6
    Steve Larson
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC-moto450r View Post
    Total insanity.
    Im sorry... I may be reading something into your comment that you didn't mean... Are you saying that it's insane that Canadians can bring firearms to the U.S and carry? Or, are you saying that it's insane that I have to go through the approval process?
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  7. 03-06-2012, 06:13 PM #7
    OC-moto450r
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  8. 03-06-2012, 10:11 PM #8
    CowboyKen
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    And, according to my reading of http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-2...l#NRS202Sec366, if you take the required course, you may obtain a Nevada permit to carry a concealed firearm. Good luck and enjoy Las Vegas. IANAL.

    Ken
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  9. 03-06-2012, 10:29 PM #9
    Steve Larson
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    And, according to my reading of http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-2...l#NRS202Sec366, if you take the required course, you may obtain a Nevada permit to carry a concealed firearm. Good luck and enjoy Las Vegas. IANAL.

    Ken
    Ken, you just made my (and a few buddies) day.

    We are so oppressed here (as far as firearms laws go). Some of us are armored car guards and competition shooters, and we long for the day to open or CC here while off duty. Since I have been doing so much research and found this forum, I've learned a lot, and told my friends, and we are each going to be OC as much as we can when in Las Vegas (as tourists, of course we are going into casinos/hotels a lot, so I know that there are only a few times we can actually OC). Now to find a place for the CCW course and do all the paperwork.
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  10. 03-06-2012, 11:22 PM #10
    Steve Larson
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    define "open" and "concealed"

    Sorry for all the newbie questions, but I like to do things right, and as much as I love visiting Nevada, I'd like to make my flight back, and not be stuck in jail getting a visit from my wife with "that look" on her face. Can someone please define "open" and "concealed" for me as it relates to my clothing and holster?

    Since right now I can only OC... should I take it to mean that the entire holster and firearm has to be exposed? or, at least just the bottom couple inches of the holster has to be exposed with shirt covering the gun and top of holster? Can I wear a tucked in shirt, and use an IWB holster, thereby concealing most of the holster, but exposing the grips of the pistol?
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  11. 03-07-2012, 03:05 AM #11
    CowboyKen
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Larson View Post
    Sorry for all the newbie questions, but I like to do things right, and as much as I love visiting Nevada, I'd like to make my flight back, and not be stuck in jail getting a visit from my wife with "that look" on her face. Can someone please define "open" and "concealed" for me as it relates to my clothing and holster?

    Since right now I can only OC... should I take it to mean that the entire holster and firearm has to be exposed? or, at least just the bottom couple inches of the holster has to be exposed with shirt covering the gun and top of holster? Can I wear a tucked in shirt, and use an IWB holster, thereby concealing most of the holster, but exposing the grips of the pistol?
    Again, IANAL!

    The definition in the Nevada Revised Statutes (NRS):
    NRS 202.3653 Definitions. As used in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, unless the context otherwise requires:
    1. “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nrs/NRS-2...#NRS202Sec3653
    ==================================

    I have been told that the words "upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation" may be interpreted subjectively by a law enforcement officer. I hope this helps.

    Ken
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  12. 03-07-2012, 07:55 AM #12
    wrightme
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    Again, IANAL!


    I have been told that the words "upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation" may be interpreted subjectively by a law enforcement officer. I hope this helps.

    Ken
    At a guess, you were told it was subjective by a ccw instructor.

    @ the OP. The reality is that in Nevada, to conceal would be to cover the firearm completely, and if enough is visible to tell it is a firearm, it is by definition, 'discernable by ordinary observation.'

    IANAL, but if you have an OWB holstered firearm, and a tucked in shirt without a jacket, I see NO WAY for any LE to 'interpret subjectively' that you have somehow concealed. Also, except for the aforementioned NLV, automobiles do not constitute 'concealed' for an OC holstered firearm, even if the seatbelt is directly over it.

    Once again, IANAL, but I have not heard of a single instance of a subjectively interpreted 'conceal,' nor of a holstered firearm in an automobile being determined to be 'concealed.'
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
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  13. 03-09-2012, 03:39 PM #13
    CowboyKen
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    At a guess, you were told it was subjective by a ccw instructor.

    @ the OP. The reality is that in Nevada, to conceal would be to cover the firearm completely, and if enough is visible to tell it is a firearm, it is by definition, 'discernable by ordinary observation.'

    IANAL, but if you have an OWB holstered firearm, and a tucked in shirt without a jacket, I see NO WAY for any LE to 'interpret subjectively' that you have somehow concealed. Also, except for the aforementioned NLV, automobiles do not constitute 'concealed' for an OC holstered firearm, even if the seatbelt is directly over it.

    Once again, IANAL, but I have not heard of a single instance of a subjectively interpreted 'conceal,' nor of a holstered firearm in an automobile being determined to be 'concealed.'
    wrightme,

    I agree completely with your post. I posted what I did (after the direct quote of the NRS) because the the consequences of getting it wrong are significant, a felony arrest. You may not be convicted, but if some LVMPD or NLV copper gets a bug up his a-- about your not really concealed firearm it could be a long, ugly and expensive experience. Some folks in Clark County have had situations that make them think those folks are not our friends. Again IANAL.

    Ken
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  14. 03-09-2012, 04:34 PM #14
    wrightme
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    wrightme,

    I agree completely with your post. I posted what I did (after the direct quote of the NRS) because the the consequences of getting it wrong are significant, a felony arrest. You may not be convicted, but if some LVMPD or NLV copper gets a bug up his a-- about your not really concealed firearm it could be a long, ugly and expensive experience. Some folks in Clark County have had situations that make them think those folks are not our friends. Again IANAL.

    Ken
    Have you heard of even ONE instance where a person was arrested, or even just hassled, for 'concealed' where it wasn't actually concealed?

    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Once again, IANAL, but I have not heard of a single instance of a subjectively interpreted 'conceal,' nor of a holstered firearm in an automobile being determined to be 'concealed.'
    (just iin case, I am speaking only of NV)
    Last edited by wrightme; 03-09-2012 at 04:36 PM.
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  15. 03-19-2012, 11:41 PM #15
    OC-moto450r
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  16. 03-19-2012, 11:43 PM #16
    Steve Larson
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    How far out of Vegas is it? I'd have to go pick up my wife and then meet you. (She isn't taking the course, she is hanging out in Vegas soaking up sun by the pool, and catching up on her photography)
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  17. 03-19-2012, 11:49 PM #17
    OC-moto450r
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  18. 03-19-2012, 11:56 PM #18
    Steve Larson
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    Oh, that sucks.. well, maybe next time... I might just do a 2 day course and then have a few days to just veg/play.
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  19. 03-20-2012, 01:00 AM #19
    OC-moto450r
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  20. 03-25-2012, 12:12 AM #20
    Steve Larson
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    Ok, packed and ready to go... couple hours of sleep, off to the airport, then into LV around noon... Then off to a gun shop to.. well... shop. This will be my first time OC. Anyone want to meet up while im in LV? Ive got all day sunday, and then each evening after about 7pm, until Friday morning when we head back to Edmonton.
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  21. 03-25-2012, 12:55 AM #21
    MAC702
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    That would be nice if I can make it. I leave for a couple weeks on Wednesday, so my schedule is pretty tight until then, but I will see what happens!
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip
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  22. 03-25-2012, 04:50 AM #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Larson View Post
    The Form 6 NIA (Non immigrant alien) is the form that is filled out in order to temporarily import firearms into the US. It has me list each firearm I want to bring in, plus any ammunition. It is sent to the BATF and then faxed back to me with APPROVED stamped across it. The conditions for approval are that I have a valid hunting license from any state (no matter where I happen to be visiting) , or an invitation to a course or competitive event. Even in the BATF's own literature, they state that if I will be coming a few times per year, then it is easier just to use a hunting license, so then I only have to fill the Form 6 out once per year and it is valid for the entire year. Once approved, they don't care why I'm coming across, as long as I have a valid hunting license for any valid state. So, I went online, and purchased a ND non game license for $17 and got approved. This form is your federal government's way to get around one of their own laws that forbids importing of firearms so that they keep things simple/friendly for us Canadians who want to spend our hard earned dollars in your country.

    As I am allowed to now possess firearms in the US, then I guess I can open carry. YAY ME !!! I can't wait to sit in a restaurant somewhere, or in front of the LAS VEGAS sign, with either my CZ 85 or Glock 22 on my hip, and post a picture to my facebook to make my fellow Canadians jealous
    Ahh, maybe you should move here to AMERICA!!!
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