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Thread: Judge rules for the 2A

  1. #1
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Judge rules against MD G & S rule

    From MSI


    Breaking News: Victory in Woollard Case





    Home » Email Alerts » Breaking News: Victory in Woollard Case
    Mar 5, 2012
    We just received word that the United States District Court for the District of Maryland has granted a motion for summary judgement for plaintiff Ray Woollard in the Woollard v. Sheridan case that challenged the good and substantial requirement for issuance of a permit to carry a handgun.
    You'll recall that this is the federal court case that Maryland Shall Issue helped to fund through a donation to the Second Amendement Foundation who spearheaded this effort.
    Ladies and gentlemen, we won!
    This is all breaking news and there is far too much analysis to be done to comment any further today, but we wanted to make sure that MSI's members were aware of this exciting news.
    A copy of the opinion can be found here.
    Here are some important excerpts from the opinion:
    "Because the ―good and substantial reason requirement is not reasonably adapted to a substantial government interest, the Court finds this portion of the Maryland law to be unconstitutional. Woollard is entitled to summary judgment. "
    "A law that burdens the exercise of an enumerated constitutional right by simply making that right more difficult to exercise cannot be considered ―reasonably adapted‖ to a government interest, no matter how substantial that interest may be. Maryland‘s goal of ―minimizing the proliferation of handguns among those who do not have a demonstrated need for them,‖ id. at 40, is not a permissible method of preventing crime or ensuring public safety; it burdens the right too broadly. "
    "At bottom, this case rests on a simple proposition: If the Government wishes to burden a right guaranteed by the Constitution, it may do so provided that it can show a satisfactory justification and a sufficiently adapted method. The showing, however, is always the Government‘s to make. A citizen may not be required to offer a good and substantial reason why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs."
    We will have much to say on this in coming days once the smoke clears, so stand by for more information.

    Maryland Shall Issue, Inc.
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    Mission Statement: Maryland Shall Issue is an all volunteer, non-partisan effort dedicated to the preservation and advancement of all gunowners' rights in Maryland, with a primary goal of CCW reform to allow all law-abiding citizens the right to carry a concealed weapon; and to the education of the community to the awareness that 'shall issue' laws have, in all cases, resulted in decreased rates of violent crime.
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    Last edited by swinokur; 03-05-2012 at 01:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    While many claim to support the right to keep and bear arms, precious few support the practice.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    This is great news.

    However, I fear that the MSP and the Legislature will react to this ruling in much the same way that DC reacted to Heller and Chicago reacted to McDonald--by quickly adopting VERY specific, convoluted and nearly impossible-to-meet rules for permit issuance.

    In other words, this battle is nowhere near over. It will be in court again--and soon--as the MSP and the MD State Government would rather risk a "contempt of court" case by creating policies specifically to "end run" around this ruling than allow the citizens of MD (whom they consider to be their whole and complete chattel) to exercise their fundamental human right to self defense.

    All this said, I will be applying for a MD "unrestricted" permit as soon as I change over my residency. Tossing a Supreme Court Ruling on the table at the "Review Board" when my application gets turned down by MSP will be well worth the price of admission...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  4. #4
    Regular Member xc9subcompact's Avatar
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    I am sure the ruling will get an appeal, just to slow things down a bit. This is what has happened in each 2A major case.
    They won't roll over that easy.
    Sorry. Other than that, a wonderful, sensible ruling!

  5. #5
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    Here is the ruling. It's a good thing Judge Legg uses 4th circuit rulings in Chester and Maciandaro (sp?) as rationale. This helps minimize the probability of it being accepted on appeal.

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    Great news!! As a resident of northern VA, I'm happy to hear that at least one person in my birth state (I was born in Easton, MD) will get a permit without having to come up with a "good and substantial reason". The judge said "Woollard is entitled to summary judgment. ", which I presume means Mr. Wollard get his permit forthwith.

    But the judge's decision states that the "good and substantial reason" requirement is unconstitutional. I don't see any language to the effect that the ruling is stayed pending appeal, so am I correct in assuming it takes effect immediately? If that's the case, anybody who applies and isn't disqualified for any other reason should get their permit without having to provide the "good and substantial reason". Now might be the time for MD residents to apply.

  7. #7
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    I'm not sure who issues the stay. If it is appealed I would guess one judge at the 4th would decide pending the actual appeal but IANAL. IIRC the state has 30 days to decide

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    “A citizen may not be required to offer a `good and substantial reason’ why he should be permitted to exercise his rights,” he wrote. “The right’s existence is all the reason he needs.”
    That is about the most intelligent thing I have read in a while. However, it doesn't go nearly far enough. You should not need a piece of paper from the state to exercise your rights.

    I would like to see a ruling where the judge says:
    "A citizen may not be required to obtain a permit from their state of residence to exercise their Constitutional right to own AND BEAR arms. The right's existence is all the reason he needs to carry a gun."

  9. #9
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I just had to slip over to the Maryland side here for a moment and congratulation you folks who have been working and waiting for this. My good friend swinokur, who started this thread, I know must be one happy man.... though probably still holding his breath.

    Montgomery County is likely to go berserk with this one if permits are issued en masse and folks actually start carrying concealed handguns.

    Next stop... open carry.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 03-05-2012 at 06:33 PM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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  10. #10
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Finally...

    This judge just affirmed the very argument I've made since Mandel's 1972 blatent effrontery. Frosh must be having siezures. No doubt the MSP jack boots are in a similar tiz. Next step... Constitutional Carry. They'll drag their feet tho. Don't expect instant compliance.

  11. #11
    Regular Member fjpro2a's Avatar
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    Big Step forward

    I know that Maryland won't necessarily roll over, but they just might. I am a citizen of the Socialist Republic of New Jersey, and I just might apply for a "Permit to Carry" in NJ. As you may know, NJ is a discretionary may issue State that requires you to provide a "need." Admittedly, I am thrilled over this ruling. I personally think it is a BIG step forward. Maybe, just maybe .................

  12. #12
    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Congrats on the ruling guys, keep fighting to keep it!
    If guns cause crime, all mine are defective- Ted Nugent

  13. #13
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    I think it's probably a given MD will appeal. They would rather throw more scarce funds at this rather than admit defeat.

  14. #14
    Activist Member swinokur's Avatar
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    As expected, MD appealing and seeking a stay.

    http://www.wtop.com/?nid=46&sid=2773265

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    It's interesting that all states in the 4th Circuit except for Maryland have "shall issue".

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    Just finished reading the ruling. The unconstitutional part the judge got right, but everything else was filled with judicial cowardice. "The 4th Circuit and/or Supreme Court haven't ruled on such-and-such yet, so I'm not gonna touch it with a ten-foot pole," or words to that effect.


    But, it's a win, so maybe there's hope yet for the Peoples' Republic of Maryland.

  17. #17
    Regular Member papa bear's Avatar
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    Congratulations Maryland!


    maybe this will help drag you into the rest of the constitutional United States. i did find it interesting that the judge did call it a constitutional right to carry, not just a right in your home. i hope the appeal works out for you too.
    Luke 22:36 ; 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    "guns are like a Parachute, if you don't have one when you need it, you will not need one again"
    - unknown

    i you call a CHP a CCW then you are really stupid. period.

  18. #18
    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    'Tis but a single domino....

    But this one fell the right way. The rights have been lost incrementally, they come back that way too. Still it is very good news. If this keeps up I will have to stop with my People's Republic jibes. Nah, that won't happen anytime soon, but congrats on the first (of many, I hope) win.

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    court opinion:

    In deciding whether the applicant has satisfied these criteria, the Handgun Permit Unit (―Permit Unit‖), which reviews applications as the Secretary‘s designee, is required to take various factors into consideration. These include ―the reasons given by the applicant as to whether those reasons are good and substantial,‖


    Answer: 'cause I want to ..... GOOD ENOUGH !

  20. #20
    Regular Member Mr H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    This is great news.

    However, I fear that the MSP and the Legislature will react to this ruling in much the same way that DC reacted to Heller and Chicago reacted to McDonald--by quickly adopting VERY specific, convoluted and nearly impossible-to-meet rules for permit issuance.

    In other words, this battle is nowhere near over. It will be in court again--and soon--as the MSP and the MD State Government would rather risk a "contempt of court" case by creating policies specifically to "end run" around this ruling than allow the citizens of MD (whom they consider to be their whole and complete chattel) to exercise their fundamental human right to self defense.

    All this said, I will be applying for a MD "unrestricted" permit as soon as I change over my residency. Tossing a Supreme Court Ruling on the table at the "Review Board" when my application gets turned down by MSP will be well worth the price of admission...
    Residency isn't an issue. No distinction in MD law (much like OC v CC)... permit is permit.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Mr H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    It's interesting that all states in the 4th Circuit except for Maryland have "shall issue".
    Ain't it, though.......

  22. #22
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    I'm intending to apply for a MD permit as soon as possible, but I don't see any training requirement in the application or noted in the MSP web site. Did I miss it?

  23. #23
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markand View Post
    I'm intending to apply for a MD permit as soon as possible, but I don't see any training requirement in the application or noted in the MSP web site. Did I miss it?

    No, you did not miss it. The "Extremely strict and thorough" application process for obtaining a MD "unrestricted" carry permit has NO training clause. That is why the MD permit is so superior to all other states, accoring to the MSP, because training is just an inconvenience to "the RIGHT kinds of people" (meaning, the rich, well-connected, and politically correct).

    In fact, there are NO sort of real "requirements" for a MD permit, except that you are "the right kind of person". Which in MD means you are well-connected, wealthy, or you are a frothing "anti" elected official like Babs Mikulski or Frank Conaway, who has spent their entire career voting AGAINST the carry rights of everyone else. Apparently, having a record of domestic violence doesn't even disqualify you from getting a permit in MD if you are someone as well-connected as Frank Conaway.

    I think that we should FLOOD the MSP permitting office with applications in the next few weeks, before the MD AG's office has a change to forumlate their appeal and try to secure a "stay" on this ruling. Because, if we go by the letter of the law, this ruling means that ANY permit application submitted within the next 90 days (the required turnaround time for a permit app in MD) MUST be issued if the person is not otherwise prohibited, and the reason they want the permit is for "self defense". The wording of the judge was pretty clear. Perhaps attaching a copy of this ruling to the applications with the critical wording highlighted would be a good way to start.

    Anyone who gets turned down in the next 90 days sould IMMEDIATELY file with the Appeals Board, and if turned down, they need to contact the judge who issued this ruling and DEMAND that the head of the Permitting Division and the members of the Appeals Board be PERSONALLY held in Contempt of Court. Then they should contact the media with their story.

    It's time to play hard-ball, people. Let's show them how we feel--bury them in paperwork, and let them know in no uncertain terms how the People feel about this. Let them TRY to jerk us around now. We will NOT be denied our rights...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 03-07-2012 at 01:10 AM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  24. #24
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCKilla View Post
    It's interesting that all states in the 4th Circuit except for Maryland have "shall issue".

    It is also interesting that MD's violent crime rate is over 40% higher than the national average, and the City of Baltimore is more than 300% higher than the national average.

    It is also interesting that VA, with nearly 140,000 active permits, has a violent crime rate that is nearly 40% BELOW the national average...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  25. #25
    Regular Member readyfire's Avatar
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    Congrats from an ex Marylander escaped to Va.Never thought Id see the day.......Pigs will fly
    ~The path to enlightenment is often filled with the bodies of the ignorant~

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