Open Carry in the news KHQ interview with Jeff Hayes

.45ACPaddy · Mar 6, 2012

Wow... I almost want to punch my computer screen after hearing how the reporters butchered the facts and law references... God, they're dumb!

PALO · Mar 6, 2012

.45ACPaddy said:
Wow... I almost want to punch my computer screen after hearing how the reporters butchered the facts and law references... God, they're dumb!

"i used to get disgusted, now i try to be amused"

the thing is ... almost every time we read a report about a subject in the lay media we KNOW a lot about , it drives us crazy with all the inaccuracies

when we read about an incident we know "the real facts" about , we are similarly appalled at how much of it is wrong

and yet...

when people read articles that confirm their bias they jump all over it, cite it here, etc. like it's obvious proof that their metanarrative is true and the world is how it seems

distinct from the accuracy issue is the framing issue (which is huge) AS WELL AS selection bias.

i like to bring up cops dealing with armed aggressive knife weilders

we read all the time about cops shooting them

we almost NEVER read about a cop not shooting them

this creates an understandable impression that when people attack cops with knives, threaten them, etc. they get shot

except it's not true.

the newspaper almost never reports "cop disarms violent knife weilder w/o incident". #1 most dept's arent proactive in doing press releases on this stuff. no blood, no release
#2 even if there is a release...big whoop ... nobodoy bled

if it bleeds it leads

the recent story in seattle on the metro bus where the KCSO sgt. got relatively minor stab wounds after some guy came at him with TWO knives, deflected the knives and held the guy until backup came DID make the news, but only because the cop got stabbed

if he hadn;t you would have NEVER heard the story, despite the heroism and remarkable restraint (i know the guy because he is a minister to a friend of mine)

heck, i've disarmed two assaultive (and one was suicidal too) people with knives with no muss, fuss, or story in the last couple of years

similarly, i've been to AT LEAST a half dozen calls in the last year or two where an armed average joe stopped a crime in progress with a gun and of course NO media story resulted

no blood, no story.

so the citizenry only hears about the "robber shot by 'citizen'" which is far far far far less common than "robber stopped by armed citizen without a shot fired

my point being selection bias is ugly and we shouldn't let the media dictacte out perception of actual frequency of events, etc

amlevin · Mar 6, 2012

Orphan said:
There is a Spokane Public Facilities board meeting on the 13th of March at 12:30 I will be there. They give you 3 minutes. If I can get no satisfaction I will then lawyer up.

The most interesting thing about the written portion on KHQ is; Chelsea Kopta (the Reporter) called the DOL and got such bad information. On top of that I vaguely remember the DOL can not give legal advice. I will be tracking down Ms. Anthony in the morning along with her boss. I am going to demand a public in person apology from Ms. Anthony along with a public retraction of her statements.

A copy of the AG's opinion should set her straight and let her know that her "source" in the DOL has Cranial Rectal Inversion.

Thor80 · Mar 6, 2012

TechnoWeenie said:
Shouldn't we be trying to be diplomats instead of soldiers?

My motto in life is 'Diplomat first, soldier second'...

Give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't know any better, and give them a chance to fix it....

Instead we're a pack of wolves attacking and saying 'fix it bitch!'.....

I just wish they would have called Jeff before the story went live so they could say "hey this is what we were told by these people...." and then get a rebuttal from Jeff. But it was like a punch in the nads since they FLAT OUT said on the air that Jeff and I were wrong without any credible source or citing of any law that would say we were in the wrong.

-Thor

PALO · Mar 6, 2012

Thor80 said:
I just wish they would have called Jeff before the story went live so they could say "hey this is what we were told by these people...." and then get a rebuttal from Jeff. But it was like a punch in the nads since they FLAT OUT said on the air that Jeff and I were wrong without any credible source or citing of any law that would say we were in the wrong.

-Thor

the intert00bs have really signaled the death knell for the conventional old school "professional" (lol) media. they know it, they are that much more defensive and they can get ugly. i think the tipping point was the throbbing memo (rathergate) over at LGF, but there have also been some good court cases that essentially say ANYBODY who is "reporting" is the press. they don't need a journalism degree, or be a hiree of the NYT or other such crap.

they are defensive as hell.

decklin · Mar 6, 2012

PALO said:
"i used to get disgusted, now i try to be amused"

the thing is ... almost every time we read a report about a subject in the lay media we KNOW a lot about , it drives us crazy with all the inaccuracies

when we read about an incident we know "the real facts" about , we are similarly appalled at how much of it is wrong

and yet...

when people read articles that confirm their bias they jump all over it, cite it here, etc. like it's obvious proof that their metanarrative is true and the world is how it seems

distinct from the accuracy issue is the framing issue (which is huge) AS WELL AS selection bias.

i like to bring up cops dealing with armed aggressive knife weilders

we read all the time about cops shooting them

we almost NEVER read about a cop not shooting them

this creates an understandable impression that when people attack cops with knives, threaten them, etc. they get shot

except it's not true.

the newspaper almost never reports "cop disarms violent knife weilder w/o incident". #1 most dept's arent proactive in doing press releases on this stuff. no blood, no release
#2 even if there is a release...big whoop ... nobodoy bled

if it bleeds it leads

the recent story in seattle on the metro bus where the KCSO sgt. got relatively minor stab wounds after some guy came at him with TWO knives, deflected the knives and held the guy until backup came DID make the news, but only because the cop got stabbed

if he hadn;t you would have NEVER heard the story, despite the heroism and remarkable restraint (i know the guy because he is a minister to a friend of mine)

heck, i've disarmed two assaultive (and one was suicidal too) people with knives with no muss, fuss, or story in the last couple of years

similarly, i've been to AT LEAST a half dozen calls in the last year or two where an armed average joe stopped a crime in progress with a gun and of course NO media story resulted

no blood, no story.

so the citizenry only hears about the "robber shot by 'citizen'" which is far far far far less common than "robber stopped by armed citizen without a shot fired

my point being selection bias is ugly and we shouldn't let the media dictacte out perception of actual frequency of events, etc

This is something I was explaining to my in-laws recently. It is all about sensationalism and ratings. Which story is going to get the most attention.

I personaly witnessed this during my time in the Army. Just officially got out on the first and am no longer a Sergeant. Now I'm just a dirty civilian.:lol:

Anyhow, during my first tour in Iraq I witnessed this alot more than in my second tour. What we saw on the ground in Iraq and what the Iraqi people were telling us did not match what the news said. This only helped add to the preconcieved notions that Americans had involving a lot of issues. It also interfered with our ability to do what needed to be done as we were hung up by new policies made by a civilian behind a desk who got his information from the wrong sources.

I'm going to stop there before I lead this off topic.

Thor and Orphan, good job for trying to get this fixed. I know this must be infuriating.

sirpuma · Mar 6, 2012

In case you all haven't figured it out yet. "News Agencies," "Main Stream Media" and the like do not report the truth. Their goal isn't to report facts as they be and let the public make their own decisions. They are there to influence the public to make them think the way that the powers that pay the "news agencies" to do their jobs. No news agency, paper or TV, will ever report positively on OC or firearms in general. It is the goal of the powers that pay them to convince the populous that firearms are evil and that only the government and LEO can handle them. It is the goal of the powers that be to disarm the public. It doesn't surprise me one bit that the field "reporter" would appear to be looking for the truth while in the end the editors spin it the other way around. This is the "media's" MO.

PALO · Mar 6, 2012

decklin said:
This is something I was explaining to my in-laws recently. It is all about sensationalism and ratings. Which story is going to get the most attention.

I personaly witnessed this during my time in the Army. Just officially got out on the first and am no longer a Sergeant. Now I'm just a dirty civilian.:lol:

Anyhow, during my first tour in Iraq I witnessed this alot more than in my second tour. What we saw on the ground in Iraq and what the Iraqi people were telling us did not match what the news said. This only helped add to the preconcieved notions that Americans had involving a lot of issues. It also interfered with our ability to do what needed to be done as we were hung up by new policies made by a civilian behind a desk who got his information from the wrong sources.

I'm going to stop there before I lead this off topic.

Thor and Orphan, good job for trying to get this fixed. I know this must be infuriating.

look at it this way. we are at a 40 yr low in crime, violent crime and homicide

i would bet 90%+ of people would never guess that is correct if you listed "how is the crime rate now compared to 40 yrs ago" and you gave them choices about 10% higher, 20% higher, etc.

why?

a 24 hr media news cycle looking for sensationalism. news is product. it's entertainment. except when dan rather did it, then it was just 'fake but accurate'

decklin · Mar 6, 2012

PALO said:
look at it this way. we are at a 40 yr low in crime, violent crime and homicide

i would bet 90%+ of people would never guess that is correct if you listed "how is the crime rate now compared to 40 yrs ago" and you gave them choices about 10% higher, 20% higher, etc.

That's because the "statistics" they read are biased/collected incorrectly and do not reflect things such as a rise in population. If they took the population into consideration then the statistics would show the crime rate has gone down. And on top of that most people have never heard of Uniform Crime Reports.

PALO · Mar 6, 2012

decklin said:
That's because the "statistics" they read are biased/collected incorrectly and do not reflect things such as a rise in population. If they took the population into consideration then the statistics would show the crime rate has gone down. And on top of that most people have never heard of Uniform Crime Reports.

i don't even think most people go as far as statistics. i mean for the first time in recorded history, this info is RIGHT at your fingertips

not only is crime rate at a 40 yr low, but the fatality per mile driven is 1/5 (ONE FIFTH!!!!)

what it was at its peak

and as much as i think nader is a putz, he did help... some

simply put, walking around driving around, etc. you are statistically safer that any time in DECADES

pockets of pus , like oakland, aside... it's simply remarkable

heck, demographic on demographic (age, gender, race etc.) iirc seattle is safer than vancouver.... CANADA . and i'm not just talking about th edanger from errant hockey pucks

Tidalwave · Mar 6, 2012

I personally thought most cities, towns, etc were "coming around" with the whole state preemption thing. Did anyone else notice the effective date on the Spokane Municipal Code?

MSG Laigaie · Mar 6, 2012

Cranial Rectal Inversion.

Ha Ha Ha, I love this

BigDave · Mar 6, 2012

Tidalwave said:
I personally thought most cities, towns, etc were "coming around" with the whole state preemption thing. Did anyone else notice the effective date on the Spokane Municipal Code?

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...ade-the-news&p=1713551&viewfull=1#post1713551

SPOKANE MUNICIPAL CODE
Title 10 Regulation of Activities
Division I. Penal Code
Chapter 10.10 Offenses Against Peace and Order
Section 10.10.050 Municipal Public Assembly Facilities
No person shall bring into any City public assembly facility any cans, bottles, alcoholic beverages, controlled substances, guns, knives or other such devices which are weapons or apparently capable of use as weapons.
The public assembly facilities are the INB Performing Arts Center, the Convention Center, Spokane Veterans Memorial Arena, and Joe Albi Stadium.
This shall not prohibit legitimate operations of licensed concessionaires or other persons authorized by the Spokane Public Facilities District, Chief Executive Officer or designee.
Date Passed: Monday, January 9, 2012
Effective Date: Thursday, February 16, 2012
ORD C34823 Section 1

deanf · Mar 6, 2012

Mr. Fuller, I'm confused about your email concerning our Open Carry story.... According to the State Dept of Licensing the Convention Center did nothing wrong. Sounds like this is a differing of opinion of the law to me. Am I wrong? I'm not sure what else we could do on this story to cover all our bases. Thank you for your comments.
Jana Gray, News Director
KHQ-TV

I am in the process of preparing a detailed analysis of the story for her.

BigDave · Mar 6, 2012

Mr. Fuller, I'm confused about your email concerning our Open Carry story.... According to the State Dept of Licensing the Convention Center did nothing wrong. Sounds like this is a differing of opinion of the law to me. Am I wrong? I'm not sure what else we could do on this story to cover all our bases. Thank you for your comments.
Jana Gray, News Director
KHQ-TV

deanf said:
I am in the process of preparing a detailed analysis of the story for her.

You do not see this was a brush off reply?

deanf · Mar 6, 2012

Of course I do.

deanf · Mar 6, 2012

Remember how the W.A.C. got all up-in-arms when the State Patrol was asking gun dealers for serial numbers off M-16s? I hope they do the same here, in light of the clearly wrong information being put out by D.O.L.

Thor80 · Mar 6, 2012

I just wanted to express a thanks to all of you for your support and the actions you have taken this far. For my work schedule and taking care of my kids after work it will be tough for me to do any real follow up until at least Thursday. Again thanks everyone!

slapmonkay · Mar 6, 2012

Got a reply

I had wrote a very detailed email with cites and only facts early this morning to the reporter. I got a reply to my email a few minutes ago from Chelsea (Reporter). I also had called and left a voice mail for her to call me back this morning.

Corey,

Thank you for your email. I am working on resolving this issue.

Chelsea Kopta

Whitney · Mar 6, 2012

Open Carry Broadcasting Network ?????

I recall a thread here some time ago suggesting a public broadcast that would effectively set the story straight by providing the public with the "rest of the story".
I would be interested to know what it would take to get something like that moving and would folks here support it.
I am willing to put my money where my mouth is but can only make modest contributions.

~Whitney

Open Carry in the news KHQ interview with Jeff Hayes

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