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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I reade Plato, years ago. I might have reade Plato's Allegory, I'm not sure.
    If you haven't, you should, it aligns perfectly to the statement you made that I responded to.

    I'm not a fan of Plato's philosophies and pronouncements, but the man was an amazing thinker and certainly applied rigorous logic to his rhetoric and philosophy (albeit, wrongly, lol).

    There have been numerous philosophical refutations to his allegory. It's quite an interesting debate from a historical perspective.

  2. #102
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Fuuny you would state this since most of the writers of the Constitution were philosophers, and were born around the 17th century. Those philosophers didn't seem to be philosophizing wrong; or were they?
    Most of the those who contributed to the text of the Constitution weren't engaged in spouting sophomoric nonsense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I reade Plato, years ago. I might have reade Plato's Allegory, I'm not sure.
    I routinely interview candidates for employment positions who are quite adept at convincing others that they know what they're talking about. They wouldn't have been sent to me for an interview were they not. The thing is, those who know what they're talking about can readily identify those who don't. Vague misapprehension, as in the above quote, is a huge tell-tale. Evasive ambiguity, as in pretty much everything you've posted in this thread, is another.

    A person can attract countless admirers without saying anything useful. Have you considered political office?

  3. #103
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Human do not require oxygen to breath. We could just as easily breath helium. We could also breath water. And technically, humans breathing oxygen (pure) would die just like the human who breathed pure helium or water.
    Oxygen toxicity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    And yet you are wrong.

    Humans need air. Try breathing just oxygen and see what happens.

    The point is that you are focusing on her writing style and completely misunderstanding what she is saying.

    While there are basic facts we all know, much of what you feel and know is just a shade of the truth. Like the oxygen...
    You know what happened when I was in the hospital they gave me pure oxygen to breath. You can live just fine on it for awhile. Our atmosphere is made up of mostly nitrogen and it keeps the oxygen stable our bodies do not need "air" it needs the oxygen in the air, although the other elements might "stabilize" it making it less volatile . So your MIB point that we need oxygen as a truth is still a truth, you will die without it.

    You can't go diving with pure oxygen because the pressure turns it into ozone which is poisonous. Diving extended times with just air can kill you too unless you use extensive decompression when surfacing, because the nitrogen in your body from pure air will cause tremendous damage, miners named this the "bends" because of how it hunched them over. So many divers looking for more bottom time will sometimes use a helium/oxygen mix and they breath just fine, and this isn't your typical "air".

    The essential element needed when breathing is oxygen without it you die,,,,,that easy.....that truthful.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 03-15-2012 at 10:06 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  4. #104
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    The essential element needed when breathing is oxygen without it you die,,,,,that easy.....that truthful.
    Nonsense. It's only your opinion that anoxia is fatal. After all, oxygen doesn't exist. Neither does death. They are all constructs.

  5. #105
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    Most of the those who contributed to the text of the Constitution weren't engaged in spouting sophomoric nonsense.



    I routinely interview candidates for employment positions who are quite adept at convincing others that they know what they're talking about. They wouldn't have been sent to me for an interview were they not. The thing is, those who know what they're talking about can readily identify those who don't. Vague misapprehension, as in the above quote, is a huge tell-tale. Evasive ambiguity, as in pretty much everything you've posted in this thread, is another.

    A person can attract countless admirers without saying anything useful. Have you considered political office?
    I don't remember whether or not I reade that specific Plato work, there is nothing ambiguous about my response.

    I don't have admirers, in fact, I think there are a lot of people that really don't like me. *worlds smallest violin*
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 03-15-2012 at 12:27 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  6. #106
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Nonsense. It's only your opinion that anoxia is fatal. After all, oxygen doesn't exist. Neither does death. They are all constructs.
    Tee hee hee hee.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  7. #107
    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    You can live just fine on it for awhile.
    Brain death takes 5-10 minutes when you are oxygen deprived.

    So... You can live just fine without it for awhile...

    The essential element needed when breathing is oxygen without it you die,,,,,that easy.....that truthful.
    1) They only give you pure oxygen in an attempt to raise an already low oxygen level. In the ambulance they don't know, though I never understood why they don't just use a pulse oximeter. Not a medic so could be a reason I am unaware of lol.

    2) Last I checked you don't breath 100% oxygen when scuba diving. Rather, you use a mix like Nitrox. And then the oxygen is only elevated to prevent nitrogen uptake in the body. Were pressure not an issue the mix would have normal amounts of air.

    3) You still NEED nitrogen and the other gases. So they are all essential.

    But all of this is irrelevant. It all proves the point that what you think you know or feel is just a shade of truth!
    Last edited by Stanley; 03-15-2012 at 12:47 PM.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

  8. #108
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    Brain death takes 5-10 minutes when you are oxygen deprived.

    So... You can live just fine without it for awhile...

    And how long do you survive on pure oxygen?



    1) They only give you pure oxygen in an attempt to raise an already low oxygen level. In the ambulance they don't know, though I never understood why they don't just use a pulse oximeter. Not a medic so could be a reason I am unaware of lol.

    They also give it to athletes for the same reason.

    2) Last I checked you don't breath 100% oxygen when scuba diving. Rather, you use a mix like Nitrox. And then the oxygen is only elevated to prevent nitrogen uptake in the body. Were pressure not an issue the mix would have normal amounts of air.

    Ummmm exactly what I said it turns to ozone and you die. They pump your tanks for diving with regular air unless you are trained in more experienced diving. nitrox, trimix, heliox are exotic blends that are not the normal air you breath, the point is that it is still the oxygen in those mixes you need or you die, the other gasses are simply for stabilizing oxygen.

    3) You still NEED nitrogen and the other gases. So they are all essential.

    Funny you so intent on correcting someone else that you missing the point. Our body does not utilize nitrogen in its gaseous form. You can change the stabilizer to hydrogen and we'd live just fine but talk in higher pitches. Nitrogen is made in our body by proteins we eat not by the air we breath.

    But all of this is irrelevant. It all proves the point that what you think you know or feel is just a shade of truth!
    No its a truth that we need oxygen to live, that isn't just a shade of truth.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 03-15-2012 at 03:17 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  9. #109
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Nonsense. It's only your opinion that anoxia is fatal. After all, oxygen doesn't exist. Neither does death. They are all constructs.


    The funny thing about constructs is they have consequences no matter how many people want to try to deny it.

    Break the construct of the law of gravity you get severely hurt or die.

    Break the construct of liberty you get tyranny many get hurt and die.

    Don't breath oxygen you die.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #110
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    No its a truth that we need oxygen to live, that isn't just a shade of truth.
    ManInBlack, at the beginning of all this, stated: "Humans require oxygen to breathe. That is a fact. That is a truth. It is not a manifestation."

    In the quote ManInBlack stated nothing about "oxygen to live," rather, they stated: "Humans require oxygen to breath."
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  11. #111
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    ManInBlack, at the beginning of all this, stated: "Humans require oxygen to breathe. That is a fact. That is a truth. It is not a manifestation."

    In the quote ManInBlack stated nothing about "oxygen to live," rather, they stated: "Humans require oxygen to breath."
    And you've managed to distract some people away from your total lack of a concrete, supportable argument for another page or more by using semantic vagueness to latch onto semantic inaccuracy. Fewer and fewer people are buying the ruse.

    By all means, though, carry on. I'm sure I'm not the only one taking mental notes.

  12. #112
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    And you've managed to distract some people away from your total lack of a concrete, supportable argument for another page or more by using semantic vagueness to latch onto semantic inaccuracy. Fewer and fewer people are buying the ruse.

    By all means, though, carry on. I'm sure I'm not the only one taking mental notes.
    You are definitely not the only one taking notes.

    Concrete, and Supportable are often associated with one another. There is nothing Concrete. You can offer Support to your argument but it merely adds to a 'better' argument; don't mistaken that for Truth.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  13. #113
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Concrete, and Supportable are often associated with one another. There is nothing Concrete. You can offer Support to your argument but it merely adds to a 'better' argument; don't mistaken that for Truth.
    You have explicitly confirmed that you have nothing concrete or true to offer. While I'm sure you see that as a fundamental principle of your quasi-German Idealism proto-philosophy (I get the impression you read the intro to a book about Hegel and Fichte and decided you'd read enough), I find it self-indicting and quite amusing. Surely you've noticed that people who tend to be drawn to this forum tend to look poorly upon the sort of pseudo-intellectual ambiguity and solipsism you seem to be rushing head-long to espouse. We generally associate it with the sort of liberals who dominate public education and mass media.

    I've participated too much in this thread derailment. I'll exit the conversation. Other participants should feel welcome to have the last word.

  14. #114
    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    No its a truth that we need oxygen to live, that isn't just a shade of truth.
    False. You can live for 5-10 minutes and sometimes up to an hour in frigid water.

    This started with truth and empirical evidence. One thing they have in common is that they require specificity.

    "Humans require oxygen, mixed with nitrogen and a few other gases, to live longer than 5-10 minutes in normal situations or longer in frigid water to continue biological processes, aka living."

    That is a truth. Note it is actually a hypothesis, that just happens to have been proven repeatedly by observation and experimentation, and it is very specific.

    "Humans need oxygen to live."

    That is not testable nor is it always true in every instance.

    Therefore it is false. Ipso facto not truth.


    Science is funny like that.


    As an aside, MIB accused 92 of changing the meaning of words to suit her purposes. In other words, not obeying the rules of the language being used and therefore making anything said meaningless in an attempt to win the argument.

    You are doing that as well.
    Last edited by Stanley; 03-15-2012 at 04:20 PM.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

  15. #115
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Tee hee hee hee.
    I'm having fun too, don't worry.

  16. #116
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    New episode airs tonight!!
    Gotta love how these guys take something like the TSA, and hold it up as a mirror to reflect how pervasive that ridiculous mentality has become in our society.

    Anti-statists, indeed.

  17. #117
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    False. You can live for 5-10 minutes and sometimes up to an hour in frigid water.

    This started with truth and empirical evidence. One thing they have in common is that they require specificity.

    "Humans require oxygen, mixed with nitrogen and a few other gases, to live longer than 5-10 minutes in normal situations or longer in frigid water to continue biological processes, aka living."

    That is a truth. Note it is actually a hypothesis, that just happens to have been proven repeatedly by observation and experimentation, and it is very specific.

    "Humans need oxygen to live."

    That is not testable nor is it always true in every instance.

    Therefore it is false. Ipso facto not truth.


    Science is funny like that.


    As an aside, MIB accused 92 of changing the meaning of words to suit her purposes. In other words, not obeying the rules of the language being used and therefore making anything said meaningless in an attempt to win the argument.

    You are doing that as well.
    Nope I am concentrating on oxygen which was the intent of MIB's post truth we need oxygen to live. We can't live without it. To post that we can go sometime without it isn't proving you can live without it. It is testable go a month without oxygen , not in a suspended state of some sort because that isn't "living". Let me know how that works out for you. I will not post about it anymore because some just care about philosophical semantics than the actual point being made.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  18. #118
    Regular Member gunns's Avatar
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    What thread is this? Did I pass into the twilight zone?

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunns View Post
    What thread is this? Did I pass into the twilight zone?
    Lack of oxygen to the brain will cause that, and I think all the oxygen was used up in the semantics back and forth.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

  20. #120
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    Lack of oxygen to the brain will cause that, and I think all the oxygen was used up in the semantics back and forth.
    chuckle.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunns View Post
    What thread is this? Did I pass into the twilight zone?
    Well, to be fair, discussions about illegal immigration and open borders are a natural segue into cerebral hypoxia. It's pratically unavoidable.

  22. #122
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostOfJefferson View Post
    Well, to be fair, discussions about illegal immigration and open borders are a natural segue into cerebral hypoxia. It's pratically unavoidable.
    Duh! LOL>....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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