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Thread: OC problem at Macomb Community College

  1. #1
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    OC problem at Macomb Community College

    Anyone ever have any experience or interaction with the "security" staff at Macomb County Community College. I have a relative who wants to attend class there and he is also wanting to exercise his right to carry. He is in the process of getting his CPL (attended class and the application is waiting approval).

    Against my better judgement (never ask permission to assert a right) he called the security office to find out if they were aware that OC is legal with a CPL on their campus. He was told by the head of security. "Any student or visitor to the campus that was caught carrying a weapon open or closed would be arrested, expelled and banned form their property immediately."

    When he attempted to explain the OC law to them, their response was to tell him. "I'm not gonna debate you when you are WRONG and don't know what you are talking about! Just go ahead and try to bring a gun on our campus and you can debate it when we call the police on you and you are sitting in handcuffs."

    At which point the security office promptly hung up on him

    What would be the next step here? Send these guys some trifolds? Carry anyway? Hand deliver copies of the law while OC? Would the student handbook regulate his actions? What about visitors?

    He is nervous now and dosen't want to provoke them into an incident. I told him you need to stand up for your rights. His question was would I bail him out of jail if he gets arrested? My response was "Yes"

    Not sure what to do at the moment. I want to help him out but also make the college aware they are a publicy funded college therefore to the best of my understanding (I could very well be wrong) they CANNOT refuse OC to students and visitors.

    Seeking your advice and enlightenment.

    Thanks

    Hevymetal

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Colleges are not preempted in the state of Michigan. If he is a student he must follow their student handbook rules. If he does not he faces the consequences.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member FerretMI's Avatar
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    I am not a lawyer. Privately owned colleges are allowed to impose restrictions on firearms because it's private property. If you are asked to leave by security for any reason, you are compelled to do so immediately or face a trespass charge. Maybe you should go straight to administration through email about a written copy of their policies regarding the lawful carry of firearms.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    http://www.macomb.edu/About+Macomb/C...e+Activity.htm

    To insure public safety, firearms, or other weapons are not allowed on campus.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by FerretMI View Post
    I am not a lawyer. Privately owned colleges are allowed to impose restrictions on firearms because it's private property. If you are asked to leave by security for any reason, you are compelled to do so immediately or face a trespass charge. Maybe you should go straight to administration through email about a written copy of their policies regarding the lawful carry of firearms.
    But they are a community college publicy owned and operated. They accept public funds from the state. Does that not force them to abide by state law? I realize a private college can do what they want but I was under the impression a public school (Grand Rapids voting incident case in point) mandated their compliance with existing laws. Is there a cite exempting or differentiating public and private schools (Elementary, High School, college)?

    Colleges are not preempted in the state of Michigan. If he is a student he must follow their student handbook rules. If he does not he faces the consequences.
    What about visitors?

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    See MCL 123.1101-1102.

    State Universities and community colleges are not preempted. If they have police forces they can make ordinances like an city can.

    Visitors and students alike can be prosecuted for violating their ordinance.
    Last edited by TheQ; 03-07-2012 at 11:03 AM.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    The hardest battle, and the one most worth fighting for on several points, is getting guns back in schools. This should be the primary focus of the gun community.

    The educational system is the root of our loss in freedoms, and if we expect to get anywhere with gun rights in the long term, we will have to retake the schools. Anything else is secondary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    See MCL 123.1101-1102.

    State Universities and community colleges are not preempted. If they have police forces they can make ordinances like an city can.

    Visitors and students alike can be prosecuted for violating their ordinance.
    Really? even if those ordinances are contrary to state and federal law? What if a college said "No blacks allowed on our property","No women allowed" seems as if that would be discriminating. Just as it is discriminating against us. What law would you be prosecuted under? Trespassing? or a non-existent law "Violation of college ordinance"

    Just trying to understand the reasoning behind this while playing Devil's advocate.

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    You're right heavymetal, but colleges somehow got themselves exempted from the constitution. Literally and legally, others can explain it better than I can. As to the charges? You could be charged with a college ordinance that nobody knows because "you are supposed to know the law" (BS), or you could be charged with trespassing. IMO you would get the ordinance charge, because they would never get a trespassing to stick if the person was compliant.

  10. #10
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hevymetal View Post
    Really? even if those ordinances are contrary to state and federal law? What if a college said "No blacks allowed on our property","No women allowed" seems as if that would be discriminating. Just as it is discriminating against us. What law would you be prosecuted under? Trespassing? or a non-existent law "Violation of college ordinance"

    Just trying to understand the reasoning behind this while playing Devil's advocate.
    But in the case of firearms, they aren't. Isolating State Laws. Please go read MCL 123.1101 and MCL 123.1102 (google them). The language is pretty cut and dry. Colleges aren't defined as local governments in MCL 123.1101.

    Don't confuse yourself and others by making this about women and black people -- that's apples and oranges.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  11. #11
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    I'd like to see it as a protected right.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    My 2 cents on this:

    We have power mongers in control of most school districts, this we know already, so the way we beat this illegal practice is to take it apart in pieces.
    1) We demonstrate to the public that the only people the law currently protects are CRIMINALS by forcing a large group of unarmed citizens, teachers, and children together in a barrel like "fish" to be easily shot! The current law has teachers defending against armed gunmen by: taping/gluing paper over the class room doors and windows so the bad guy(s) can't see in! Wow, that makes me feel safer - (NOT) - how about you? I and most parents/citizens I know would much rather allow those teachers/staff members who wish to carry a weapon to protect themselves and the kids to do so legally.

    2) We work with the Teachers Associations, the service employee unions, etc. to promote new laws to allow them to carry.

    3) Once the public sees that this works via drops in school shootings/violence in MI (and there will be a drop as the whack jobs will move on to theaters and other FREE FOR ALL ZONES) their arguments [school districts/colleges] for not allowing the rest of the public to carry in schools becomes much, much weaker.

    That's how I see it, How do you Guys & Gals?
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 03-07-2012 at 05:24 PM.
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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