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update on Waterford School district

army74

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Pontiac, Michigan, USA
I was finally contacted by Mr.Beaver finally after almost a year. He said there schools are gun and weapons free. If your voting,attending Parent teachers confrences,Sporting events etc.You will be asked to take it back to your vehicle.The police will be called and you will leave the premesis i informed him that school property is public not private he understands this. I informed him of the Michigan state police legal update #86 he knows about it. He clearly stated there lawyers have looked heavily into it and because its a gun and weapons free area he says the lawyers can make an individual put it into there vehicle. I asked him if im voting your going to call the poilice sir his answer was yes you cant carry in a school or weapons free zone but you can have it in your car its for the pupils safety we dont want anyone to get hurt.Im personally trying to see what my friends in the open carry world think. Thank you army74
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
It's a debatable matter and probably won't be resolved by SB 58 or CADL v. MOC.

To solve it would mean a modification to MCL 123.1101 and/or another lawsuit. Total cost would likely exceed $20k.

Got some $ to help us start a lawsuit?

FWIW, I think chances of success under this lawsuit would be less than the CADL case as local school boards get their authority directly from the State Board of Education -- unlike CADL which was formed from Lansing and Ingham County.

If the CADL suit is lost -- this matter is almost assuredly lost as well. If the CADL suit is won, this is still an open question.
 
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stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Until you (everyone, not just army) recieve something in writing, keep carrying. You dont gain anything by complying with tyrants.

PDinDetroit has a cite to the law that says it is a felony for someone to prevent someone from voting.
 

army74

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Pontiac, Michigan, USA
wateford im getting my cpl back this summer now that i have the money to do so

im going to carry no matter what my son runs track and plays football they have scrimmages in south lyon,walled lk,warren so im going to continue to carry the way i have in the past in a respectful manner. I remember i had this issue with the PSD and the former Pontiac Police Dept. it was only a few officers. He stated stainless he doesnt have to go with the michigan state police update #86 we will see how it goes. I dont have money growing on trees phillip im just saying.If i had the extra 20,000 iwould give it to moc because everyone has helped me in the past that includes glock,scott webb,and rob hariss sorry if i mispelled it rob and countless others ill keep fighting for my rights and when i move to fla im going to try and get it where you can OC there.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
Keep up the good fight army. The only ones who can protect the kids from gunmen are open carriers. The only ones that can protect our rights are the ones who exercise them. The only way to do this, is to stick together.
 

detroit_fan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
1,172
Location
Monroe, Michigan, USA
We need a strong state organization like Ohio has with Buckeye Firearms association and Georgia's Georgia Carry. These orgs have united OC and CC guys and don't seem to have any problem financing lawsuits, and have been VERY effective at the state level. MRCGO, MGO and MOC need to be come together, then the funds, awareness and organization would all be there to end some of the BS going on in MI. Right now with all the groups separate we are not getting results.
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
MRCGO, MGO and MOC need to be come together, then the funds, awareness and organization would all be there to end some of the BS going on in MI. Right now with all the groups separate we are not getting results.

MOC and MCRGO work together closely in lobbying. Just recently the President of MOC became a member of MCRGO and MCRGO's head lobbyist became a member of MOC.
 

Vmaxx

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
85
Location
Rochester Hills, Michigan, USA
I opened carried at a Waterford school to vote "Donelson Hill's Elementary" with no issues. There were only a hand full of people there & I'm sure most saw me OC. They even had to call the township because there was a #24 next to my name, meaning as a new voter there they needed a full signature on file.
 

detroit_fan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
1,172
Location
Monroe, Michigan, USA
MOC and MCRGO work together closely in lobbying. Just recently the President of MOC became a member of MCRGO and MCRGO's head lobbyist became a member of MOC.

That's great news, hopefully it will continue. I am not putting down any of these groups, it just seems we could be a lot more effective with 1 large state org (like BFA or GC) instead of splitting resources among several smaller groups. It just infuriates me when I see that the only thing standing between us and our rights is the money needed to fight to get those rights back.
 

TheQ

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
3,379
Location
Lansing, Michigan
That's great news, hopefully it will continue. I am not putting down any of these groups, it just seems we could be a lot more effective with 1 large state org (like BFA or GC) instead of splitting resources among several smaller groups. It just infuriates me when I see that the only thing standing between us and our rights is the money needed to fight to get those rights back.

I don't think having just one group is feasible given we have a very diverse focus in these groups. I do think it is very possible for us to work together as one voice on some issues -- this includes legislation and court cases.
 
Last edited:

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
I was finally contacted by Mr.Beaver finally after almost a year. He said there schools are gun and weapons free. If your voting,attending Parent teachers confrences,Sporting events etc.You will be asked to take it back to your vehicle.The police will be called and you will leave the premesis i informed him that school property is public not private he understands this. I informed him of the Michigan state police legal update #86 he knows about it. He clearly stated there lawyers have looked heavily into it and because its a gun and weapons free area he says the lawyers can make an individual put it into there vehicle. I asked him if im voting your going to call the poilice sir his answer was yes you cant carry in a school or weapons free zone but you can have it in your car its for the pupils safety we dont want anyone to get hurt.Im personally trying to see what my friends in the open carry world think. Thank you army74

If they prevent you from voting they are committing a crime.
 

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
What I want to know, is how they intend on keeping the kids safe from gun violence. So far, they have only prevented one person, whom they have met and through various processes is known as knowledgeable in the laws and not at all a threat to anyone, from carrying there.
 

Glock9mmOldStyle

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
2,038
Location
Taylor, Wayne County, Michigan, USA
It's a debatable matter and probably won't be resolved by SB 58 or CADL v. MOC.

To solve it would mean a modification to MCL 123.1101 and/or another lawsuit. Total cost would likely exceed $20k.

Got some $ to help us start a lawsuit?

FWIW, I think chances of success under this lawsuit would be less than the CADL case as local school boards get their authority directly from the State Board of Education -- unlike CADL which was formed from Lansing and Ingham County.

If the CADL suit is lost -- this matter is almost assuredly lost as well. If the CADL suit is won, this is still an open question.

My 2 cents on this:

We have power mongers in control of most school districts, this we know already, so the way we beat this illegal practice is to take it apart in pieces.
1) We demonstrate to the public that the only people the law currently protects are CRIMINALS by forcing a large group of unarmed citizens, teachers, and children together in a barrel like "fish" to be easily shot! The current law has teachers defending against armed gunmen by: taping/gluing paper over the class room doors and windows so the bad guy(s) can't see in!:eek: Wow, that makes me feel safer - (NOT) - how about you? I and most parents/citizens I know would much rather allow those teachers/staff members who wish to carry a weapon to protect themselves and the kids to do so legally.

2) We work with the Teachers Associations, the service employee unions, etc. to promote new laws to allow them to carry.

3) Once the public sees that this works via drops in school shootings/violence in MI (and there will be a drop as the whack jobs will move on to theaters and other FREE FOR ALL ZONES) their arguments [school districts] for not allowing the rest of the public to carry in schools becomes much, much weaker.

That's how I see it, How do you Guys & Gals?
 
Last edited:

stainless1911

Banned
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
8,855
Location
Davisburg, Michigan, United States
I think that someone who intends to shoot up a school has no intentions or expectations of living through it.

Knowing that, the only way to stop someone like that, is to shoot them. The only way to do that, is to have a gun in place before an active shooter arrives.
 
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