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Thread: Everyone on here is going to jail!!

  1. #1
    Regular Member 10-79's Avatar
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    Everyone on here is going to jail!!

    ...According to Pearl River County SO that is. So, this happened a bit back, but just getting around to posting. Day after Mardi Gras, Ash Wednesday if you will, my gal and I were driving back from New Orleans on our way back on up to these parts via 59. We had just crossed back into MS from Louisiana and just a few miles shy of Picayune when I got pulled over by the aforementioned. Mind you, I wasn't speeding, wasn't driving recklessly, just me, minding my b... As I come to a stop on the shoulder, told my girlfriend to get ready for the full song and dance of being pulled out the truck and possibly searched. So, he comes to the truck, I hand him insurance card, DL, and FP, but still isn't clicking with this winner. I then proceed to inform him "Officer, I'm a State of MS licensed carry conceal." Then comes the routine:

    "Where is it?"

    "Right hip"

    "Step out of the truck for me, please"

    I step out and raise my right arm for him, make his job a little easier. I spot him being pretty careless with my firearm, going as far as pointing the barrel in his own face while trying to locate the serial where comes this gem of info:

    "Umm, officer? There is one in the chamber and no safety on that gun."

    (Removes mag, clears chamber, gets serial)

    "You know, you really shouldn't be carrying a firearm on your hip like that. It is illegal in Mississippi."

    "Oh really?"

    (As if the doubt wasn't removed already by his death wish previously mentioned, it surely was confirmed at this point. His partner comes out of the squad car, removes my girlfriend from passenger seat as it's now becoming such an entailed stop at this point." Brings her around to back of my truck, dialog continues)

    "The law in Mississippi only covers residents who have their firearms in their vehicles, when you step out like you just did, you are in violation of the law and I can take you to jail right now for doing so."

    "Well, do what you have to, but my permit says differently."

    (Looking at me blankly, talks to his partner, partner then chimes in.)

    "You did it correctly, announced you had a firearm and presented your permit"

    In what appeared to be an effort to save face, the first officer then gives me a long speech on why I shouldn't be carrying a gun anyways and how it becomes such a major offense if it were to flash for even a second if my clothing uncovered it at any point. Just shook my head, said "Thank you, have a nice day" and went on my way. Just a warning guys, if you carry a gun into Pearl River County, those geniuses might be inclined to lock you up! (Permit not withstanding)

    <Still shaking my head>
    Last edited by 10-79; 03-08-2012 at 10:05 PM.

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    /shakes head

    good lord talk about the officer was not liking the fact he was proven wrong. So he had to pull out why he doesn't like the fact your carrying. Also when he stated I can arrest you for having your firearm outside your vehicle in Mississippi, he requested you to step out of the vehicle and you warned him before hand you had a firearm on your hip. The video tape in his squad would make a judge ask the officer, did you listen at the academy, or are you just plain stupid?
    Nothing better than a Glock.........except maybe another Glock!

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Them's some smart fellers, knewed you had to be doin' sumpthin' wrong, they jus' weren't sure whut.

    Did Cletus ever say why he was pulling you over?

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    Regular Member 10-79's Avatar
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    Nope! Not even once did he say why I was pulled over! I was doing about 60, though the speed limit was 70. Was stuck behind a semi in the left lane, couldn't get back into the right, more semis were merging into it from the weigh station ahead.

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    There is no need for a firearms permit in your car or to notify the LEO that you had a pistol. I can't stand cops who think that way. Calling you out to catch you in some kind of trap, what a POS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-79 View Post
    ...
    "You know, you really shouldn't be carrying a firearm on your hip like that. It is illegal in Mississippi."

    "Oh really?"
    ...

    "The law in Mississippi only covers residents who have their firearms in their vehicles, when you step out like you just did, you are in violation of the law and I can take you to jail right now for doing so."

    "Well, do what you have to, but my permit says differently."

    (Looking at me blankly, talks to his partner, partner then chimes in.)

    "You did it correctly, announced you had a firearm and presented your permit"...
    You're both wrong. The CONSTITUTION of Mississippi says otherwise. Your permit specifically avoids the topic of open carry as it would be unconstitutional for it to cover such.

    Concealed carry is the only thing allowed in the vehicle but illegal once out of the vehicle (as concealing a weapon when afoot is a crime that is allowed with a license).

    Funny how its "illegal", but he only wanted to berate you for it eh?
    Last edited by Daylen; 03-09-2012 at 07:17 AM.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-79 View Post
    Nope! Not even once did he say why I was pulled over! I was doing about 60, though the speed limit was 70. Was stuck behind a semi in the left lane, couldn't get back into the right, more semis were merging into it from the weigh station ahead.
    So why did you notify him of anything before establishing what he pulled you over for, and if it was even a legal stop?
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    So why did you notify him of anything before establishing what he pulled you over for, and if it was even a legal stop?
    How about this... Why did you notify him of anything PERIOD?

    I've driven the I-59 corridor between Louisiana and Hattiesburg at least 4 times a year for the last 7 years. I've been pulled over once for speeding and did not disclose that my firearm was in a holster under my seat. The stop was quick and uneventful(except for the ticket). There's no requirement to disclose the possession of a firearm in a car in either state unless the firearm is being carried pursuant to the permit. By notifying, you put yourself in the position you described. Control the things you can control thus limiting the officer's options.

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    Regular Member DCKilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    How about this... Why did you notify him of anything PERIOD?

    I've driven the I-59 corridor between Louisiana and Hattiesburg at least 4 times a year for the last 7 years. I've been pulled over once for speeding and did not disclose that my firearm was in a holster under my seat. The stop was quick and uneventful(except for the ticket). There's no requirement to disclose the possession of a firearm in a car in either state unless the firearm is being carried pursuant to the permit. By notifying, you put yourself in the position you described. Control the things you can control thus limiting the officer's options.
    +1, Every time somebody annouces they have a firearm, it presses forward the mind set that officers need to know what you have for their "safety". In doing so, this has possibly set back the forward progress of securing yours and others' rights to privacy.

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    Regular Member 10-79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    How about this... Why did you notify him of anything PERIOD?

    I've driven the I-59 corridor between Louisiana and Hattiesburg at least 4 times a year for the last 7 years. I've been pulled over once for speeding and did not disclose that my firearm was in a holster under my seat. The stop was quick and uneventful(except for the ticket). There's no requirement to disclose the possession of a firearm in a car in either state unless the firearm is being carried pursuant to the permit. By notifying, you put yourself in the position you described. Control the things you can control thus limiting the officer's options.
    Hmmm, let's see, I've been pulled over three times whilst carrying. I have announced I was carrying all three times. I have been let go without a ticket or written warning all three times after doing so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10-79 View Post
    Hmmm, let's see, I've been pulled over three times whilst carrying. I have announced I was carrying all three times. I have been let go without a ticket or written warning all three times after doing so.
    So... the lesson here is never carry in a car according to the requirements of a permit and there will never be a reason to notify. Thus, keeping your contact time with LEOs to a minimum.

    Thanks for sharing your encounter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post

    Concealed carry is the only thing allowed in the vehicle but illegal once out of the vehicle (as concealing a weapon when afoot is a crime that is allowed with a license).

    so your saying open carry is illeagle in your vehicle in mississippi?? if i understand your statement correctly that is not true

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigz View Post
    so your saying open carry is illeagle in your vehicle in mississippi?? if i understand your statement correctly that is not true
    That is not what I'm saying! Open carry is specifically protected by the MS constitution. It doesn't matter where you OC, no law can regulate nor prohibit it.

    I'm trying to show a distinction. It was said previously that the officer said the carrier violated the law by stepping out of the vehicle with the pistol showing.

    OC in MS is, by the constitution, legal and beyond the power of the legislature to regulate and/or prohibit, be it in a vehicle, on private land, on public land, while doing headstands, on a plane, in a boat etc; all are legal as all can not be made illegal.

    CC in MS is, by the constitution, under the power of the legislature to regulate and/or prohibit. By the code of MS CC is illegal, one exception is if the weapon is in a vehicle. Another exception is if the person has a license and the weapon is a pistol or revolver.
    Last edited by Daylen; 03-12-2012 at 06:24 PM.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I'd contact the superiors at the dept. to make sure they inform their officers OC is legal in Mississippi.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    OMG, can you imagine the furor if he'd have shot -himself- in the face with your naughty, naughty chambered unsaftied "weapon"? There'd been a hue and cry for...oh, IDK, smarter cops? Guns with soft rubber bullets? Safeties on people's brains? /snark
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Hey, at least it would have been on dash cam,
    including the OP warning the LEO about the condition of the pistol he'd just illegally obtained.
    Not his problem if said officer is stupid or suicidal.
    (And IMO he'd have to be at least one of those to have pointed the muzzle at himself.)

    ETA... The thought occurs to me that maybe putting the serial # on the front end of the slide would be a good thing. It might deter some of the smarter cops from illegal searches (a.k.a. running the serial # w/ no RAS).
    Last edited by MKEgal; 03-14-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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    I am an Alabama resident, and a former LEO. I have a CCW permit that has reciprosity with Mississippi. I am also a member of the Pascagoula Gun club and travel there at least 2 times a month to shoot.

    I also travel I-10 frequently and have long notoiced what appears to be a substantial number of LEO's crusing between Bioloxi and the LA state line. I assume that this is part of the High Intensity Drug Trafficing Area enforcement effort.

    My question is this, what was the reason for you being pulled over? You were not speeding, you were not weaving, you were not driving in an agressive manner, so what was the basis for the stop?

    This sounds to me to be a situation where you got profiled for one reason or another, as perhaps being a drug runner, but even if I strap on my "LEO Helmet", I am not real clear on why you were stopped.

    Last time I checked, a police officer does have to have a valid reason to stop someone, you know, that whole Terry v. Ohio thingy,,,,,and a little Constitutional standard called reasonable suspicion.

    Now I have a couple of questions:

    What is the law in Mississippi on OC?

    If I am stopped, except out of courtesy, do I have a legal obligation to infrom under Mississippi law?

    Where is OC legal, and aside from "places of public nusense" is there anywhere else that will get you into trouble?

    Based on this post,,,,if I was stopped in Pearl River County, the first words out of my mouth is going to be "Officer may I ask why I am being stopped",,,,,,and he better have a good reason or he can stand on the side of the road, and wave good bye.




    Quote Originally Posted by 10-79 View Post
    ...According to Pearl River County SO that is. So, this happened a bit back, but just getting around to posting. Day after Mardi Gras, Ash Wednesday if you will, my gal and I were driving back from New Orleans on our way back on up to these parts via 59. We had just crossed back into MS from Louisiana and just a few miles shy of Picayune when I got pulled over by the aforementioned. Mind you, I wasn't speeding, wasn't driving recklessly, just me, minding my b... As I come to a stop on the shoulder, told my girlfriend to get ready for the full song and dance of being pulled out the truck and possibly searched. So, he comes to the truck, I hand him insurance card, DL, and FP, but still isn't clicking with this winner. I then proceed to inform him "Officer, I'm a State of MS licensed carry conceal." Then comes the routine:

    "Where is it?"

    "Right hip"

    "Step out of the truck for me, please"

    I step out and raise my right arm for him, make his job a little easier. I spot him being pretty careless with my firearm, going as far as pointing the barrel in his own face while trying to locate the serial where comes this gem of info:

    "Umm, officer? There is one in the chamber and no safety on that gun."

    (Removes mag, clears chamber, gets serial)

    "You know, you really shouldn't be carrying a firearm on your hip like that. It is illegal in Mississippi."

    "Oh really?"

    (As if the doubt wasn't removed already by his death wish previously mentioned, it surely was confirmed at this point. His partner comes out of the squad car, removes my girlfriend from passenger seat as it's now becoming such an entailed stop at this point." Brings her around to back of my truck, dialog continues)

    "The law in Mississippi only covers residents who have their firearms in their vehicles, when you step out like you just did, you are in violation of the law and I can take you to jail right now for doing so."

    "Well, do what you have to, but my permit says differently."

    (Looking at me blankly, talks to his partner, partner then chimes in.)

    "You did it correctly, announced you had a firearm and presented your permit"

    In what appeared to be an effort to save face, the first officer then gives me a long speech on why I shouldn't be carrying a gun anyways and how it becomes such a major offense if it were to flash for even a second if my clothing uncovered it at any point. Just shook my head, said "Thank you, have a nice day" and went on my way. Just a warning guys, if you carry a gun into Pearl River County, those geniuses might be inclined to lock you up! (Permit not withstanding)

    <Still shaking my head>

  18. #18
    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potent Dagger View Post
    Now I have a couple of questions:

    What is the law in Mississippi on OC?

    If I am stopped, except out of courtesy, do I have a legal obligation to infrom under Mississippi law?

    Where is OC legal, and aside from "places of public nusense" is there anywhere else that will get you into trouble?
    Start here: http://www.opencarry.org/ms.html
    Last edited by Eeyore; 03-17-2012 at 02:26 AM.
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potent Dagger View Post
    ...
    Now I have a couple of questions:

    What is the law in Mississippi on OC?

    If I am stopped, except out of courtesy, do I have a legal obligation to infrom under Mississippi law?

    Where is OC legal, and aside from "places of public nusense" is there anywhere else that will get you into trouble?

    Based on this post,,,,if I was stopped in Pearl River County, the first words out of my mouth is going to be "Officer may I ask why I am being stopped",,,,,,and he better have a good reason or he can stand on the side of the road, and wave good bye.
    See the sticky just for this purpose: http://forums.opencarry.org/forums/s...ssippi-The-Law

    The short version (read at your own risk):
    The MS Constitution specifically prohibits regulation and prohibition of the right to bear arms except in the case of CC, so OC needs nothing but a pulse. There is no requirement to notify, just to have the permit if you are CC on foot while not on your property.

    Our thoughts are in alignment as to the proper response to a stop. With no reason for the stop there is no reason for me to comply or stay.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    That source is WRONG. Unless you want misinformation don't start there.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    That source is WRONG. Unless you want misinformation don't start there.
    Nope, not wrong, just the most-conservative reading of conflicting case law. Your reading is the least-conservative interpretation. It sounds like you're on your way to being the first test case, and I'd be happy to contribute $$ to your defense fund if/when that happens. Once you've been arrested, charged, get it to trial, and win, then you can say that the website is wrong. Until then, it's Schoedinger's cat--indeterminate (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schroedinger%27s_cat for explanation of analogy).
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    Nope, not wrong, just the most-conservative reading of conflicting case law. Your reading is the least-conservative interpretation. It sounds like you're on your way to being the first test case, and I'd be happy to contribute $$ to your defense fund if/when that happens. Once you've been arrested, charged, get it to trial, and win, then you can say that the website is wrong. Until then, it's Schoedinger's cat--indeterminate (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schroedinger%27s_cat for explanation of analogy).
    Here's the WRONG part:

    "As the Mississippi courts have said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part..."

    What case states this?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
    Nope, not wrong, just the most-conservative reading of conflicting case law. Your reading is the least-conservative interpretation. It sounds like you're on your way to being the first test case, and I'd be happy to contribute $$ to your defense fund if/when that happens. Once you've been arrested, charged, get it to trial, and win, then you can say that the website is wrong. Until then, it's Schoedinger's cat--indeterminate (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schroedinger%27s_cat for explanation of analogy).
    No that reading is of the single law in question, not the constitution, not the AG opinions, nothing but the single bit of code; oh and some judicial hearsay. Also, your thoughts on what would happen if I was to be a test case is off (well unless I am unlucky enough to come across a REALLY ignorant cop) as concealing without a license on one's person is a non-arrestable fine; however, thanks for the pledge of support.
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Here's the WRONG part:

    "As the Mississippi courts have said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part..."

    What case states this?
    The unicorn case!
    Don't believe any facts that I say! This is the internet and it is filled with lies and untruth. I invite you to look up for yourself the basic facts that my arguments might be based upon. This way we can have a discussion where logic and hints on where to find information are what is brought to the forum and people look up and verify facts for themselves.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Eeyore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Here's the WRONG part:

    "As the Mississippi courts have said that a handgun in a holster is concealed in part..."

    What case states this?
    L.M., Jr. v. State, 600 So.2d 967 (Miss. 1992).

    "ROY NOBLE LEE, Chief Justice, concurring:

    I concur with the majority opinion, but I think more should be said about carrying concealed weapons.

    One of the first cases I undertook as a young lawyer was the defense of a man charged with carrying a concealed weapon. I thought his defense would be simple and easy until I learned what the statute meant. To my amazement, I discovered that carrying a concealed weapon in whole or in part even meant that a revolver carried in a holster on a man's hip was a partially concealed weapon, riding a horse with a saddle holster and revolver under a person's leg violated the statute; and that covering a weapon with feet, hands, or clothing meant that the weapon was concealed under the interpretation of the statute. Conceivably, carrying a revolver suspended from the neck by a leather thong could be partially concealing it. (One Western gunfighter used that method.)"

    [emphasis added]

    Full opinion and transcript can be found at http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...l=1#post775442
    Guns don't kill people. Drivers on cell phones do.

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