Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Two New Cases: Help Appreciated

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    201

    Two New Cases: Help Appreciated

    Folks,

    I generally have my clients sign waivers stating that I can release their information in order to aid them or to instruct my college students. This is no exception. I currently have two gun cases that require assistance, and if you have any ideas, they would come in handy.

    Case #1: A CWL-holding moped rider ("Moped") is on his bike as he's stopped. The firearm is not on display, but as the officer requests Moped's credentials, Moped gives him both the license and CWL, making the officer aware that he was carrying. The officer handcuffed Moped and placed him under arrest for "Aggravated assault on a LEO with a deadly weapon." In the A-form, the officer claims that Moped pulled the gun out and pointed it at the officer. Apart from filing the SMTD that tells the truth, advice?

    Case #2: A Coral Gables officer, during a routine traffic stop, is told by my client ("Car") that Car possesses a weapon and that it's in the glove compartment. The officer removed the weapon, emptied it, confiscated it, gave the client a routine traffic ticket, and kept the weapon, claiming that it was "unregistered." We know, of course, that registration is not necessary in Florida, but I wonder how to go out about this.
    Priority #1 is getting Car's weapon back, since it has been there since Thanksgiving (thankfully, the CGPD property guy said that it hasn't been destroyed, and
    that he'll do what he can to keep it from getting destroyed. I'm planning on using the traffic case to have the firearm returned. I could certainly use Sean's help,
    or any attorney who may have a good writ of replevin. Sean sent me one the other day but the PDF was unreadable (so if you can send it again, it'd be great)

    Priority #2 is exposure. My client is angry as hell and is willing to fight this one on principle. He wants to sue the City of Coral Gables and use the law to get
    paid and possibly even get the officer sanctioned. Where should I be looking in order to fight the City on this one?


    Your help is immensely appreciated,
    Jesus

  2. #2
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SE of DiSOrDEr, ,
    Posts
    363
    I forwarded the information to Sean and the rest of our group, JoJo.

    What the hell is in the water down there, brother?????
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran StogieC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    746
    Jojo. I'll call you this afternoon. We may want to engage the Fl Carry legal team on this.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Marion County, FL
    Posts
    3,005
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    and kept the weapon, claiming that it was "unregistered." We know, of course, that registration is not necessary in Florida, but I wonder how to go out about this.
    Um...So, where did this enforcement drone look to see how the firearm was unregistered? There is indeed no such registry to consult to see if the weapon was registered, so the drone just made this up on the spot so he could steal the gun? Sort of makes me afraid to go to Coral Gables, not that I would have reason to go there anyway.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Miami-Dade
    Posts
    3
    It's not the water. It's the whole attitude down here. Part of the reason I am reluctant to carry at times. The "officers" have a bad day and make the citizens pay. Seems like this is going to be a tough one in both those cases. You have a lot of issues to overcome.

  6. #6
    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Punta Gorda, Florida, USA
    Posts
    466
    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    Folks,

    Case #1: A CWL-holding moped rider ("Moped") is on his bike as he's stopped. The firearm is not on display, but as the officer requests Moped's credentials, Moped gives him both the license and CWL, making the officer aware that he was carrying. The officer handcuffed Moped and placed him under arrest for "Aggravated assault on a LEO with a deadly weapon." In the A-form, the officer claims that Moped pulled the gun out and pointed it at the officer. Apart from filing the SMTD that tells the truth, advice?

    Your help is immensely appreciated,
    Jesus
    Wouldn't the video from the LEO car show what happened?

    AD
    NRA Life - AMA Life - ABATE Life
    Viet-Nam Helicopters Pilots Assn - Life
    IDPA, ICORE and USPSA carry gun shooter - Glock Armorer
    NRA Certified Instructor

  7. #7
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    3,915
    It probably got corrupted when there was an unexplained atmospheric phenomenon and the sun suddenly disappeared and some pale imitation appeared in the much darker sky later that day. Being corrupted, there was nothing they could do except erase the tape and hope that the sun wouldn't suddenly disappear again the next day.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 03-10-2012 at 10:34 PM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,510
    Assuming Moped wasn't physically injured in any way, I would press the officer (on the stand, of course) about how he disarmed someone who was pointing a gun at him, in such a way that neither of them was injured.

    If Moped had pointed a gun at the cop, his chances of surviving the incident and subsequent period while under arrest, would be extremely low. If he did survive such a thing, he would likely be sporting a face of many colors for a few weeks.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Assuming Moped wasn't physically injured in any way, I would press the officer (on the stand, of course) about how he disarmed someone who was pointing a gun at him, in such a way that neither of them was injured.

    If Moped had pointed a gun at the cop, his chances of surviving the incident and subsequent period while under arrest, would be extremely low. If he did survive such a thing, he would likely be sporting a face of many colors for a few weeks.
    This is a very good thought. Thank you.

    Regarding the in-car camera footage, folks, I'll be requesting it today, but I fully expect that to have disappeared.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    ?
    Posts
    38
    Remind me to stay out of Miami-Dade county... Holy sh*t...

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605
    Jojo712:

    In The First Case, if Your Client did NOT Point The Firearm in Question at The Law Enforcement Officer The Conduct does NOT Eqivacate to Assault on a Peace Officer.

    In The Second Case, The Registration of Firearms is ILLEGAL in Florida, under Florida Code 790.335, and Florida Preempts Firearm Regulation under Florida Code 790.33.

    In BOTH Cases, Your Clients would APPEAR to have Grounds to Sue The Offending Local Governmental Units that Regulated Firearms more Stringently than Florida Code.

    aadvark

  12. #12
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
    Posts
    3,828
    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    Jojo712:

    In The First Case, if Your Client did NOT Point The Firearm in Question at The Law Enforcement Officer The Conduct does NOT Eqivacate to Assault on a Peace Officer.

    In The Second Case, The Registration of Firearms is ILLEGAL in Florida, under Florida Code 790.335, and Florida Preempts Firearm Regulation under Florida Code 790.33.

    In BOTH Cases, Your Clients would APPEAR to have Grounds to Sue The Offending Local Governmental Units that Regulated Firearms more Stringently than Florida Code.

    aadvark
    And then potentially file expensive federal 1983 rights violations suits against the various officers and municipalities!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northwest Kent County, Michigan
    Posts
    757
    Reminder to everyone. Always carry a running voice recorder. ;-)

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    NW Florida
    Posts
    79

    934.03 fs

    Florida is a 2 party/all party consent state regarding recording conversations. Be sure to ask the officer first! ( Haha)

  15. #15
    Regular Member rvrctyrngr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SE of DiSOrDEr, ,
    Posts
    363
    Quote Originally Posted by 6-shooter View Post
    Florida is a 2 party/all party consent state regarding recording conversations. Be sure to ask the officer first! ( Haha)
    Only if there's a reasonable expectation of privacy. The legality of recording LEOs in the performance of their duties has not been decided in the courts...no one's been prosecuted for it. Folks have been charged, but none have gone to trial of which I'm aware.
    Director,
    Florida Carry, Inc.

    Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.
    -Justice Oliver Wendel Holmes
    Brown v. United States, 1921

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    miami fl
    Posts
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by ADulay View Post
    Wouldn't the video from the LEO car show what happened?

    AD
    Let's c if they even have a camera in the car. Dirring my case ,when I went 2 the Miami dade police headquarters and ask 2 speak 2 some one that can help me get the video. I was told non of there cars has a video recorder

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    31
    Jojo,


    Greetings from your sister state of Alabama.

    I do not know if you have read the ACLU lawsuit against the Philadelphia Police Department. It is highly informative. There is a consent decree with relevant cases from other Federal Circuits dealing with 42 USC 1983 claims.

    The case you present in "MOPED" is more difficult to deal with. Here you have an officers allegation that the permit holder drew and pointed a gun at officers. My suggestion is to immediately file a formal complaint with the Internal Affairs Division of the police department, and also with the FDLE and FBI. If your client is agreeable to it, offer to have your client take a polygraph examination by either FDLE or the FBI. This would involve your client giving the polygraph examiner a full statement of the facts of the incident and then passing the polygraph on the sole issue of if his statement is true. When he passes the polygraph, this will indicate to the State Prosecutor that they may be dealing with a "bad cop", and it is likely to result in the Officer being offered the opportunity to also take a polygraph on the same issue. The FBI routinely uses polygraphs to help sort out issues of "professional conduct and responsibility". While the results of the polygraph are not admissible in court under Daubert, they are widely respected as an investigative tool by FDLE, the FBI, and States Attorneys, and are used extensively in cases such as arsons, and sexual offenses. If your client passes, you may in fact find the State Prosecutor has little stomach to continue the case, and the charges may be dropped. The only down side is if your client is lying and fails the polygraph, I would suggest that you have him take a privately administered polygraph by a retired FBI examiner, this will allow you to know for your own information if the client is being truthful with you, and if he is a person who is suitable to take a polygraph,,,,some people, due to various reasons of neurology and other health related reasons , are not suitable subjects. Giving him one privately will not adversely impact on the one he may take later administered by FDLE or the FBI as part of you Internal Affairs complaint,,,,offereing to take, and passing the polygraph adminsitered by an independent agency will certainly bolster your clients position that he did not threaten the officer, and while it can not be admitted in court, there is nothing to stop you from using that fact to create pressure in the media for the charges of officer misconduct to be taken seriously by the prosecution.

    In the Case you presented in "CAR" you have a much different animal. I would use an "investigatory subpoena" to request the records of the police property room for all gun seizures to determine how many guns were seized and the person they were seized from was not otherwise charged with an offense. This has a striking resemblance to what was going on in Philadelphia, where weapons of lawful OCer's were seized, and despite no charges being made, the gun owner could not get their weapons returned. This is a straight up 4th amendment violation, and presents a clear 42 USC 1983 claim against the officer for the violation, and against his supervisory chain of command for failure to train and supervise. If I were you, I would look at the Philadelphia case, and use it to form the basis of a claim in this case. File the 42 USC 1983 claim, which will enable you to begin taking depostions, from the officer, his chain of command, obtain copies of department policies, and evidence from the property room. My bet is that a press conference, in conjuction with filing your claim, with the local media, may result in you getting several calls from others who have the same experiences, which then turns your case into a pattern of practice and institutionalized civil rights violation case with multiple plaintiffs.

    Hope I have helped and good luck to you and your clients.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jojo712 View Post
    Folks,

    I generally have my clients sign waivers stating that I can release their information in order to aid them or to instruct my college students. This is no exception. I currently have two gun cases that require assistance, and if you have any ideas, they would come in handy.

    Case #1: A CWL-holding moped rider ("Moped") is on his bike as he's stopped. The firearm is not on display, but as the officer requests Moped's credentials, Moped gives him both the license and CWL, making the officer aware that he was carrying. The officer handcuffed Moped and placed him under arrest for "Aggravated assault on a LEO with a deadly weapon." In the A-form, the officer claims that Moped pulled the gun out and pointed it at the officer. Apart from filing the SMTD that tells the truth, advice?

    Case #2: A Coral Gables officer, during a routine traffic stop, is told by my client ("Car") that Car possesses a weapon and that it's in the glove compartment. The officer removed the weapon, emptied it, confiscated it, gave the client a routine traffic ticket, and kept the weapon, claiming that it was "unregistered." We know, of course, that registration is not necessary in Florida, but I wonder how to go out about this.
    Priority #1 is getting Car's weapon back, since it has been there since Thanksgiving (thankfully, the CGPD property guy said that it hasn't been destroyed, and
    that he'll do what he can to keep it from getting destroyed. I'm planning on using the traffic case to have the firearm returned. I could certainly use Sean's help,
    or any attorney who may have a good writ of replevin. Sean sent me one the other day but the PDF was unreadable (so if you can send it again, it'd be great)

    Priority #2 is exposure. My client is angry as hell and is willing to fight this one on principle. He wants to sue the City of Coral Gables and use the law to get
    paid and possibly even get the officer sanctioned. Where should I be looking in order to fight the City on this one?


    Your help is immensely appreciated,
    Jesus
    Last edited by Potent Dagger; 03-31-2012 at 12:52 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •