OT: Another Washington Kid Shot

Beretta92FSLady · Mar 11, 2012

aktion said:
And a law banning/punishing said behavior would accomplish what, exactly?

Put the guy in the car seat with the window cracked, on a sunny day, and hang out in an air conditioned bar tipping back cool brews.

I stated nothing about creating a law. But since you asked: Since we can't make stupidity not-legal--most stupid things are subjective--we can require maybe AA, and a parenting class. Kids ought to not be taken away except under extreme circumstances, IMO. It is better to maybe offer some tutoring...who the hell am I kidding, who needs to take a class that tells them that you ought not leave your kid in the vehicle while your in the bar!...LOL, ok, since you can't teach what seems to be common sense, slap the man's hand with a ruler, and state, "NO NO!"

gogodawgs · Mar 11, 2012

Beretta92FSLady said:
<snip> I immediately called the police, waited, waited, waited, waited, took half hour for them to get there. Dad was in the bar drinking. Dad got reprimanded, and that's it.

Beretta92FSLady said:
<snip>
I stated nothing about creating a law. But since you asked: Since we can't make stupidity not-legal--most stupid things are subjective--we can require maybe AA, and a parenting class. Kids ought to not be taken away except under extreme circumstances, IMO. It is better to maybe offer some tutoring...who the hell am I kidding, who needs to take a class that tells them that you ought not leave your kid in the vehicle while your in the bar!...LOL, ok, since you can't teach what seems to be common sense, slap the man's hand with a ruler, and state, "NO NO!"

Well you said nothing about 'creating a law', nice try...but why the hell then did you call the police? Is it their job to reprimand or to enforce the law? Is it the job of the police to parent? Is it the job of the police to teach a class?

Your two posts together make no sense.

Beretta92FSLady · Mar 11, 2012

gogodawgs said:
Well you said nothing about 'creating a law', nice try...but why the hell then did you call the police? Is it their job to reprimand or to enforce the law? Is it the job of the police to parent? Is it the job of the police to teach a class?

Your two posts together make no sense.

I follow your reasoning. So if there is no law against something, say, leaving a baby strapped in a car seat in a vehicle, alone, then there is no reason to call the police?

I didn't state it is the job of the police to teach a class. I didn't call the police to show up and be the parent. At nineteen I wasn't aware of the laws at the time concerning leaving an infant in a vehicle alone, figured the police might have a better idea.

Of course, according to you, there was no reason for me to call the police, and if I were to call the police, I am arguing for a law to exist that makes it illegal to leave an infant in a vehicle.

Please, if you are going to pick through my posts, there are other places where I actually post conflicting viewpoints within the same discussion.

BTW, I didn't call the police to reprimand the man, I called the police because an infant was sitting in a vehicle alone; I merely pointed out that the officer reprimanded the man.

gogodawgs · Mar 11, 2012

Beretta92FSLady said:
I follow your reasoning. So if there is no law against something, say, leaving a baby strapped in a car seat in a vehicle, alone, then there is no reason to call the police?

I didn't state it is the job of the police to teach a class. I didn't call the police to show up and be the parent. At nineteen I wasn't aware of the laws at the time concerning leaving an infant in a vehicle alone, figured the police might have a better idea.

Of course, according to you, there was no reason for me to call the police, and if I were to call the police, I am arguing for a law to exist that makes it illegal to leave an infant in a vehicle.

Please, if you are going to pick through my posts, there are other places where I actually post conflicting viewpoints within the same discussion.

BTW, I didn't call the police to reprimand the man, I called the police because an infant was sitting in a vehicle alone; I merely pointed out that the officer reprimanded the man.

I understand your progression from age 19 to now...views, responsibilities, etc can mature and grow.

Did it ever occur to you to go find the parent? Go to the business and express your concern?

I didn't say there wasn't reason to call the police, but it is definately not the first thing that I would consider. If I had more information then perhaps it would, i.e. the temperature put the health of the baby in jeopardy.

Dave in Edmonds · Mar 11, 2012

Leaving a child unattended in the car while in a bar IS against the law.

RCW 9.91.060

Leaving children unattended in parked automobile.

Every person having the care and custody, whether temporary or permanent, of minor children under the age of twelve years, who shall leave such children in a parked automobile unattended by an adult while such person enters a tavern or other premises where vinous, spirituous, or malt liquors are dispensed for consumption on the premises shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

Further, I would put forth that a 19-year old woman could not legally enter a bar to search for the parent and I wouldn't ask her to confront a possibly inebriated and probably belligerent father.

I too would have called the police and asked them to enforce the law.

Dave_pro2a · Mar 11, 2012

Beretta92FSLady said:
When I was nineteen, in Utah, I was walking to the store one afternoon, and happen by a truck with its passenger window rolled part-way down, it was the summer time, the truck was parked in front of a bar, baby in the car seat. I immediately called the police, waited, waited, waited, waited, took half hour for them to get there. Dad was in the bar drinking. Dad got reprimanded, and that's it.

The police do not have a duty (or legal obligation) to protect any individual -- including that child.

It's not a nice way to learn that lesson, but at least it was learned without anyone dying.

gogodawgs · Mar 11, 2012

Dave in Edmonds said:
RCW 9.91.060

Leaving children unattended in parked automobile.

Every person having the care and custody, whether temporary or permanent, of minor children under the age of twelve years, who shall leave such children in a parked automobile unattended by an adult while such person enters a tavern or other premises where vinous, spirituous, or malt liquors are dispensed for consumption on the premises shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

Further, I would put forth that a 19-year old woman could not legally enter a bar to search for the parent and I wouldn't ask her to confront a possibly inebriated and probably belligerent father.

I too would have called the police and asked them to enforce the law.

Great! Another nanny-state law.
So, mom goes in on Friday to pick up her paycheck from said tavern. Daughter is fast asleep in the car seat and mom gets to talking with her boss about the next weeks schedule and spends a 15 minutes inside her place of employment and some do-gooder calls the police instead of asking the business about the situation. Now mom gets to spend money to defend herself and is subject to 364 days in jail and/or a $5000 fine.

Dave in Edmonds · Mar 11, 2012

Seriously?

You don't see a problem with a parent leaving their child unattended in a parked car outside a bar while they're inside drinking, before getting back in the car and driving them home?

gogodawgs · Mar 11, 2012

Dave in Edmonds said:
You don't see a problem with a parent leaving their child unattended in a parked car outside a bar while they're inside drinking, before getting back in the car and driving them home?

You made the assumption they are drinking. I would like to be a good neighbor and citizen and without state involvement find out if that is true or not. You are making the assumption that a second parent is not there picking up said drinking parent. I am not making any assumptions to the safety of the child until there is a clear indication of danger. You have used one piece of circumstantial evidence to draw a conclusion to a situation that has a wide variety of outcomes.

Dave_pro2a · Mar 11, 2012

Dave in Edmonds said:
You don't see a problem with a parent leaving their child unattended in a parked car outside a bar while they're inside drinking, before getting back in the car and driving them home?

I can have a problem with it, and simultaneously object to laws that prohibit it.

sudden valley gunner · Mar 11, 2012

Dave_pro2a said:
I can have a problem with it, and simultaneously object to laws that prohibit it.

I second that. And I think that is Nicks point on this one too.

FMCDH · Mar 11, 2012

Dave in Edmonds said:
RCW 9.91.060

Leaving children unattended in parked automobile.

Every person having the care and custody, whether temporary or permanent, of minor children under the age of twelve years, who shall leave such children in a parked automobile unattended by an adult while such person enters a tavern or other premises where vinous, spirituous, or malt liquors are dispensed for consumption on the premises shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor.

Further, I would put forth that a 19-year old woman could not legally enter a bar to search for the parent and I wouldn't ask her to confront a possibly inebriated and probably belligerent father.

I too would have called the police and asked them to enforce the law.

Putting aside the fact that she stated she was in Utah at the time, I have yet to visit a state that makes it a crime for merely entering a bar by a minor for the purpose of asking the management a question. Washington itself has "passage" laws on the books allowing minors to enter bars and bar areas under certain circumstances. Typically it is on the establishment to screen its clientele and not SERVE minors. That is how the law in Washington is focused.

That said, coming at it from a "reasonable man doctrine", I think she did exactly what we could expect from any typical 19yo female under those circumstances. I think she did fine.

Myself, I would walk into the bar and yell at the top of my lungs that someone left their kid in the car, and I am calling the police, then I would walk out. Nothing like a healthy dose of shame and fear to straighten out someones priorities.

Would I actually call the police? Only if they didn't get their arse out there within the next 5 minutes. Then if they appeared to be impaired and they were about to drive away, I would still call.

TechnoWeenie · Mar 11, 2012

gogodawgs said:
Great! Another nanny-state law.
So, mom goes in on Friday to pick up her paycheck from said tavern. Daughter is fast asleep in the car seat and mom gets to talking with her boss about the next weeks schedule and spends a 15 minutes inside her place of employment and some do-gooder calls the police instead of asking the business about the situation. Now mom gets to spend money to defend herself and is subject to 364 days in jail and/or a $5000 fine.

Friend of mine had a similar circumstance.

Left his 8 and 7 year old daughters in the car... because they were playing.......with car an A/C on...while he went into kinkos to make some copies.......

Came back out not 10 minutes later, cops were there.........

Bad timing, because not a few days earlier some dumb bitch left a newborn in a car, in 100 degree weather, with the car off........while she went shopping in a mall........and killed it....

So guess who was arrested, forwarded to child protective services, and made an example of?

Yup... You guessed it.... The retired police officer who left his daughters playing in his air conditioned van less than 100ft from where he was......

This, however, was in the nanny state of MD.. where, I can legally break out your window to rescue an animal in distress because it was left in the car......

aktion · Mar 11, 2012

gogodawgs said:
You made the assumption they are drinking. I would like to be a good neighbor and citizen and without state involvement find out if that is true or not. You are making the assumption that a second parent is not there picking up said drinking parent. I am not making any assumptions to the safety of the child until there is a clear indication of danger. You have used one piece of circumstantial evidence to draw a conclusion to a situation that has a wide variety of outcomes.

+1 on your position thus far, Nick.

Beretta, I was not attempting to put words in your mouth, it was simply a question based on your statements. I don't want to see anyone put at risk anymore than anyone else does. A child unattended in a vehicle is not, in my opinion, by definition at risk. I was left unattended in a vehicle more times than I can remember as a young child.

Speaking generally, at what point did calling the police become such an automatic response?

Dave_pro2a · Mar 11, 2012

TechnoWeenie said:
Friend of mine had a similar circumstance.

Left his 8 and 7 year old daughters in the car... because they were playing.......with car an A/C on...while he went into kinkos to make some copies.......

Came back out not 10 minutes later, cops were there.........

Bad timing, because not a few days earlier some dumb bitch left a newborn in a car, in 100 degree weather, with the car off........while she went shopping in a mall........and killed it....

So guess who was arrested, forwarded to child protective services, and made an example of?

Yup... You guessed it.... The retired police officer who left his daughters playing in his air conditioned van less than 100ft from where he was......

This, however, was in the nanny state of MD.. where, I can legally break out your window to rescue an animal in distress because it was left in the car......

You mean the guy who should have KNOWN it was against the law?

LEO are citizens. They ought not be exempt or given special protection. Intrusive laws ought to be applied evenly -- so everyone hates them equally.

amzbrady · Mar 11, 2012

I see a huge problem with leaving a child unattended in a vehicle, whether it be running or not, whether they go into a bar or 7/11. You would not leave a million dollars in your vehicle unattended, why on earth would you leave a child unattended in a vehicle.

sudden valley gunner · Mar 11, 2012

amzbrady said:
I see a huge problem with leaving a child unattended in a vehicle, whether it be running or not, whether they go into a bar or 7/11. You would not leave a million dollars in your vehicle unattended, why on earth would you leave a child unattended in a vehicle.

Because people usually don't want to steal kids and a million dollars can buy a lot more.

(just funning)

Then again a million dollars don't rip the rear view mirror off playing Tarzan either....my kids at my job site, in the work van set up with DVD's and books. And it was raining out. Funny thing is I remember my sister doing the same thing in my mom's vw bug....

Dave_pro2a · Mar 11, 2012

amzbrady said:
I see a huge problem with leaving a child unattended in a vehicle, whether it be running or not, whether they go into a bar or 7/11. You would not leave a million dollars in your vehicle unattended, why on earth would you leave a child unattended in a vehicle.

That would be my call as a parent.

I have no right to force my opinion onto another parent.

aktion · Mar 11, 2012

amzbrady said:
I see a huge problem with leaving a child unattended in a vehicle, whether it be running or not, whether they go into a bar or 7/11. You would not leave a million dollars in your vehicle unattended, why on earth would you leave a child unattended in a vehicle.

Then by the same token, what about kids walking home from school, unescorted? Or anywhere in public, for that matter? Would you have a law dictating a minimum age that children can be unattended?

ARADCOM · Mar 12, 2012

What's the difference?

So, 2 weeks ago a 9 year old boy got a gun from his mothers cars glovebox and accidentally shot a 8 year old girl.

"Although this incident is being treated as an accident, the third grader who had the backpack with the gun in it was booked into a juvenile detention center on charges including third-degree assault and unlawful possession of a gun."

An arrest warrant was issued for his mother for allowing the boy to have access to a gun.

Will be interesting to see if the Police Officers son is charged along with the Police Officer himself.

"At this time we are all extremely concerned for the well-being of one of our department family members," said Marysville Police Chief Rick Smith.

Doesn't sound like he's to concerned about any laws being broken in this case.

Just sayin.

OT: Another Washington Kid Shot

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Campaign Veteran

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member