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Thread: New Petition for State wide open carry

  1. #1
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    New Petition for State wide open carry

    I have been in contact with several state officials, because the petition that is linked to the main page of Opencarry.org lists everybody as not a resident of Texas they will not accept it. So I have stated a new petition that is for Texas residents only and shows what county that reside in. With enough support I may be able to get this ball rolling.

    Here is a link to the new petition.

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/texas_open_carry/

    we also have a facebook page

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Texan...26513467444388

    As we move forward I will keep you all informed.

    Aj

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    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    Why the mandatory donation? That's pretty cheesy.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
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    the texas house has zero interest in open carry, either for looking like gun nuts or losing taxpayer money for CHLs.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    It is definitely time to begin thinking about strategy for the 2013 Legislative session. Republican members of the Homeland Security & Public Safety Committee were generally receptive and supportive of the bill introduced by Rep George Lavender in 2011.

    One problem that will again come up in 2013 and must be addressed is the sentiment that any "open carry" bills will jeopardize the concealed carry on campus bills. Therefore the less attention any open carry bill gets - the better.

    I recommend a bill simply amending Section 46.035 to either repeal paragraph (a) altogether - OR ....

    (if necessary to obtain passage) amend 46.035(a) to read "while carrying under the authority of Subchapter 411, Chapter H of the Government Code (CHL) knowingly, intentionally, and recklessly displays a concealed handgun publicly in a manner in which any reasonable person would feel threatened.."(in other words be polite, keep it in the holster, and behave one's self) (Repeal of 46.15a is of course preferable to entertaining debate over that mouthful of legal mumbo-jumbo)

    THAT Section (46.035a) is the statutory provision that establishes "open carry" in the public square while carrying a handgun under the authority of the CHL as a CRIMINAL OFFENSE. THAT - is the immediate problem in Texas. Do not allow yourselves to get bogged down in a complicated "house-cleaning" measure to cross every "t", and dot every "i" within the Texas' statutes.

    I realize some sincerely motivated folks in Texas think the issue requires a touch of "perfection" in order to harmonize every statutory reference to handgun - particularly the perceived 36.01 signage problem. What happened last session ? There was a "dust-up" with folks over at the Texas CHL forum- who incidentally are not against repeal , or constitutional clarification of 46.035(a), but they did not want the 36.01 issue "messed with". So......don't mess with it - just seek repeal - or a constitutional clarification of 46.035(a) -period.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 03-12-2012 at 06:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodbender View Post
    Why the mandatory donation? That's pretty cheesy.
    There is no mandatory donation. It says right at the top: "Your signature has been recorded." Then they ask for a donation to keep the site running.

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    Brazoria county checking in


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Regular Member okiebryan's Avatar
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    Just tell em, "Oklahoma's getting open carry" and they will suddenly want it, too.

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    Intrest

    I have spoken to several members of the house and they are interested. The problem is getting the support. I have one Rep who will be a freshman this year and one who this will be his second term. If I can generate enough support then they will make it happen. The problem with the old petition is it lists everybody as out of state.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aj Weaver View Post
    I have one Rep who will be a freshman this year and one who this will be his second term.
    Umm... don't they have to be... you know, elected first?

    What am I missing here?

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    Contact Representative George Lavender. He may already have a bill prepared. Pending re-election is no excuse to sit on hands until November. I suspect TSRA also is addressing a bill - and Texans would do well to work together this go-around.

    Whatever compromise measure can be agreed upon - removing the "criminal offense" for lawful display of a holstered handgun is a must.

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    I will check with him. I have spoken with the TSRA and this is not a big issue for them. They are more worried about "Campus Carry". Pat Fallon is going to be the Representative for my district and he has assured me that he is will help us with this issue. Unfortunately the members of the house can't accomplish much because the house doesn't meet again until 2013.

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    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    I guess the tone of this thread just kinda struck me as, "Hey, I've got an idea! No one's tried to get OC passed in Texas, recently, so let's start learning what we have to do to make it happen!" Maybe I'm just reading things wrong.

    Aj Weaver, I recommend you read the entirety of this thread (and the other related threads leading up to the 2011 Texas Legislature), if you haven't already. It will give you lots of background on the efforts recently made, in large part by members of this forum, particularly pooley. After you've got all of that background, I suggest you contact the Lone Star Citizen's Defense League to see how you might be able to coordinate efforts with them. Certainly, no one is obliged to coordinate with anyone, but it's usually best to try to pool your efforts with those of people who have already been doing this stuff for quite some time. That you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it isn't already happening

    I still find it quite odd to refer to someone "who will be a freshman [Texas Representative] this year". Assuming an incumbent will be re-elected? Okay, sure. Someone who hasn't even been elected in the first place, though? Seems rather optimistic to me
    Last edited by ()pen(arry; 03-12-2012 at 05:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by
    I still find it quite odd to refer to someone "who will be a freshman [Texas Representative
    this year". Assuming an incumbent will be re-elected? Okay, sure. Someone who hasn't even been elected in the first place, though? Seems rather optimistic to me
    He is running in a "New District" and the only other person running for the position doesn't have a chance of winning... But I do understand the confusion. It's a strange situation. The Denton/Collin county Districts are getting messed with this election so it's all strange...

    I have been looking into what they are doing with HB2756 (open Carry for those with a Concealed carry permit) is nice I was going for more of an unlicensed carry. I have seen how well it can work. In addition to seeing it work well I think that it is redundant to do a background check so that some one can openly carry a firearm when we all ready do a background check on the person to purchase it.

    As far as my argument for unlicensed open carry, The First amendment gives people the freedom of speech, there is no training requirement to exercise this freedom. However we do hold people responsible for the words that they say publicly. This is how it should be with firearms.

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    The major obstacle to " unlicensed " public open carry of a handgun in Texas is Section 46.02(a) of the Penal Code that establishes the "criminal offense" of carrying a handgun on, or about one's person outside of certain specific circumstances. Sec. 46.02 (a) should read "concealed handgun ", but until it is amended, or interpreted by Texas courts to so read- licensed concealed/ open carry appears to be the straightest, and shortest path to OC in Texas.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 03-12-2012 at 06:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    The major obstacle to " unlicensed " public open carry of a handgun in Texas is Section 46.02(a) of the Penal Code that establishes the "criminal offense" of carrying a handgun on, or about one's person outside of certain specific circumstances. Sec. 46.02 (a) should read "concealed handgun ", but until it is amended, or interpreted by Texas courts to so read- licensed concealed/ open carry appears to be the straightest, and shortest path to OC in Texas.
    That is a great point and now I have a easier avenue of approach on the law... THANK YOU!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aj Weaver View Post
    He is running in a "New District" and the only other person running for the position doesn't have a chance of winning...
    I assume you're talking about the new House District 106 and Tan Parker (incumbent representative of current House District 63). Is an incumbent representative who has to change districts due to redistricting considered a "freshman" if they win reelection? I happen to know Rodney Caston, the LP candidate, personally. I expect Parker will win.

    While it's great that Parker voted against Joe Straus for Speaker, I have no reason to suppose that his motivations included 2A issues. I can't find any occurrence of the words "gun" or "firearm", or any discussion of the 2nd amendment or gun rights, on his official website. Really, all his site talks about is anti-immigration policies and lower taxes (primarily for special interest groups). He talks an awful lot about states rights, but I can't find a single clear assertion of individual rights. While I'll acknowledge that his official website may just not convey his principles very well, from the information I have available, he seems like little more than Yet Another Republican. If that's the case, don't expect any more than lip service paid in support of improving protection of gun rights in Texas from him. A lot of Republican Representatives said they'd support open carry legislation in 2011. A number not too different from zero actually did.

    When he does more than issue a yes-or-it-looks-bad vote on a motion to report an open carry bill out of committee, I'll think about considering him to be pro-2A. Actually, do we have any documented proof that he did, in fact, vote yes on that? It seems obvious that, since he's on that committee, he would have voted yes, but the vote was 5-3, and I can't find record of the individual votes.

    P.S. I'm aware that HB 2756 never made it to general debate. I'm also aware of what was considered higher priority (yes, I know Joe Straus controls the schedule). My conclusion is that Republican priorities are jacked to hell, and I don't expect them, as a group, to give two turds about individual liberty, since it doesn't make for tasty campaign donations.

    P.P.S. I'm further aware that, three sessions ago, Tan Parker voted in favor of the use of deadly force in self defense. Also an "of course" vote, in my book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    I assume you're talking about the new House District 106 and Tan Parker (incumbent representative of current House District 63).
    I am talking about District 106 (or possible 88). The only two people running in District 106 are Pat Fallon and Amber Fulton. Pat Fallon has a major lead in the district and it appears that he will run unopposed in the General Election. So he will more than likely be the Representative for District 106. As far as Tan Parker his will be the Dis 63 Rep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aj Weaver View Post
    I have been in contact with several state officials, because the petition that is linked to the main page of Opencarry.org lists everybody as not a resident of Texas they will not accept it.
    The online petition is a publicity tool and tool to get folks email addresses for alerts - the "officials" do not have to "accept" anything - the petition is not a legal instrument in any way - it is a merely way to generate interest and build support. Kepp spreading the word in Texas to sign the exisiting petition - http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html

    OCDO spent tens of thousands on this project several years ago - we are ready to reengage once Oklahoma passes open carry - that should be very soon

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aj Weaver View Post
    I am talking about District 106 (or possible 88). The only two people running in District 106 are Pat Fallon and Amber Fulton. Pat Fallon has a major lead in the district and it appears that he will run unopposed in the General Election. So he will more than likely be the Representative for District 106. As far as Tan Parker his will be the Dis 63 Rep.
    Ahh. I had a hard time (in the short time I had) finding reliable information on who is running where. I still haven't found official state information on registered candidates by district. Anyone have that handy?

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    Mike the problem is that as far as the Politicians are concerned there is NO support from Texas... The Petition on the main page does have 75K sigs but they ALL say that the signer is NOT a Texas resident and Not registered to Vote in Texas. How as a Texan does that Help us?

    I am not running a Scam to get peoples E-mails... I am not putting their E-mail address on Anything. I am just trying to get this moving and the politicians I spoke to wanted something from Texans not from out of staters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ()pen(arry View Post
    Ahh. I had a hard time (in the short time I had) finding reliable information on who is running where. I still haven't found official state information on registered candidates by district. Anyone have that handy?
    This isn't State wide just for Denton County, but this is where I got my information.

    http://www.dentongop.org/Candidates/

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    Rushcreek, It's good to see you back on the forum! As much as I hate to say it, I think you're right that licensed OC is the best bet for us this coming session. I would really like to see several bills submitted though. One for licensed OC, one for unlicensed OC and one for flat out (no more CHL) Constitutional Carry. Let them choose which one to vote on.

    AJ, I also think it's a great idea for you to try to coordinate with the LSCDL. For a small group of folks, we did pretty good last time.

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    It's good to hear from you too , JC . Even though I'm no longer a Texas resident, I still spend a fair amount of my time down there so Texas law still affects my lifestyle. Because of that - the Texas "problem" still weighs on my mind.

    I understand the rationale behind the comprehensive approach embodied in HB 2756, but.....if the narrowed issue approach is more successful in court challenges, would that principle not also apply to legislative efforts as well - especially given the short "attention span" of the Texas legislature.

    The Heller & McDonald SCOTUS decisions did not achieve a comprehensive reset of the 2A to it's 1791 status, but at least a step was achieved in the right direction. Texans must first break the Reconstruction era inertia that preserves the two "crimes" defined by sections 46.02(a), and 46.035(a)

    For example, if 46.02(a) was simply amended to read "concealed handgun " the scope of the criminal offense defined would then reflect the intent of Article 1, Section 23. That coupled with repeal of Section 46.035(a) would clear the way for the CHL to become the CONCEALED handgun license that its title suggests. That would be some noteworthy "housekeeping" for the Legislature in 2013.

    A narrow approach of simply addressing the obvious constitutional inconsistencies of 46.02(a) & 46.035(a) would transform the CHL into a concealed handgun license - just like those issued by other states that are recognized by Texas. Then it is no longer any more of a crime in Texas to otherwise lawfully carry a handgun openly than it is to carry a shotgun or rifle openly. You don't presently have any problem with people in Texas attempting to enter private premises controlled by 30.06 signs carrying shotguns, and rifles openly ? Then why is it going to be a problem with openly carried handguns ?
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 03-17-2012 at 07:51 PM.

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    Rushcreek2

    I've done some more research on it... there is a little more to it than just those two statutes... I currently have a bill submitted the Sen Nelson's office. It would make unlicensed open carry legal. We'll see how it goes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aj Weaver View Post
    Rushcreek2

    I've done some more research on it... there is a little more to it than just those two statutes... I currently have a bill submitted the Sen Nelson's office. It would make unlicensed open carry legal. We'll see how it goes...
    Again, you ought to do some more background research before you make posts like this in these forums. I promise there are a number of people in here that know an awful lot more about this than you or I do, and they've done everything you want to do and more. Ask how you can get involved, rather than telling people they don't know what they're talking about.

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