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Thread: No guns allowed lapeer sheriff dept

  1. #1
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    No guns allowed lapeer sheriff dept

    here is the link
    *
    http://youtu.be/tJcPe9JtCqI
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who will watch the watchmen?)

    I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of posts should be construed as legal advice.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Interesting encounter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    I was up to the Lapeer "Gravel Pit" on Sunday Afternoon/Evening and gentleman told me that Lapeer is trying to discourage Open Carry (mentioned County Sheriff). I was surprised by that but not surprised by this after having heard that. Too bad really, I like the Lapeer area and have considered moving there.

    You let me know when the meeting will be for the County Commission if the Sheriff does not handle it properly. I got your back and so will others.

    BTW - The Under-Sheriff basically admitted on your audio that he is DENYING YOUR RIGHTS. Clear Violation of MCL 752.11, but I believe it is better to try to work with them to help them understand that they are not in compliance with State Law (MCL 123.1102), that by doing do they can lose their Qualified Immunity, and be subject to a Deprivation of Civil Rights Lawsuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by LAW ENFORCEMENT (EXCERPT) Act 158 of 1966

    MCL 752.11 Upholding or enforcing the law; duty of public officials.

    Sec. 1.

    Any public official, appointed or elected, who is responsible for enforcing or upholding any law of this state and who wilfully and knowingly fails to uphold or enforce the law with the result that any person's legal rights are denied is guilty of a misdemeanor.


    History: 1966, Act 158, Eff. Mar. 10, 1967

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    I simply wonder how on earth a deputy, or under-sheriff, etc.. Can even consider a Sheriffs office "a business".

    You get tax dollars? That is no business sir.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady
    I am no victim, just a poor college student who looks to the day where the rich have the living piss taxed out of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VW_Factor View Post
    I simply wonder how on earth a deputy, or under-sheriff, etc.. Can even consider a Sheriffs office "a business".

    You get tax dollars? That is no business sir.
    You have run into 'the sheriff dept gang'. They do it the way they want to.. Congratulations!!

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran G22shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapeer20m View Post
    here is the link
    *
    http://youtu.be/tJcPe9JtCqI
    Good luck from NC
    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. O'Rourke; The Liberty Manifesto
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    If I am in the state when a commission meeting is to be held I will gladly show up with you to help out.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

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    Is there a Prison or jail/ correctional facility at that site/building?

    800.283 Weapons; prohibitions.

    (3) Unless authorized by the chief administrator of the correctional facility, a weapon or other implement
    which may be used to injure a prisoner or other person, or in assisting a prisoner to escape from
    imprisonment, shall not be brought into or onto any correctional facility.
    The Cass County Sheriff's Dept is signed "No Weapons Allowed" due to it also being a correctional facility in the same building.

    Hmmm..

    Lapeer County Jail
    3231 John Conley Dr, Lapeer, MI
    Lapeer County Sheriff's Office
    3231 John Conley drive
    Lapeer.MI 48446
    (810) 664-1801
    Same address...I think maybe you got off lucky.
    Last edited by xd shooter; 03-12-2012 at 11:59 PM.

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    here we go

  10. #10
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    why is it unlisted?

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    What's unlisted?

  12. #12
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    Is there a Prison or jail/ correctional facility at that site/building?

    800.283 Weapons; prohibitions.


    The Cass County Sheriff's Dept is signed "No Weapons Allowed" due to it also being a correctional facility in the same building.

    Hmmm..


    Same address...I think maybe you got off lucky.
    If it is County Jail, then it should still fall under Preemption and Public Areas are not PFZ nor can they be made such without some other prevailing Michigan Law or Federal Law.

    Quote Originally Posted by FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION (EXCERPT) Act 319 of 1990

    123.1101 Definitions.

    Sec. 1.

    As used in this act:

    (a) “Local unit of government” means a city, village, township, or county.

    (b) “Pistol” means that term as defined in section 222 of the Michigan penal code, Act No. 328 of the Public Acts of 1931, being section 750.222 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.

    Sec. 2.

    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.
    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-Act-319-of-1990

    Since the Under-Sheriff did not state it was a CRIME, then the "got off lucky" comment I do not understand. If you have a Legal Cite showing it to be a CRIME, I sure would like to see it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    What's unlisted?
    the video

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    Stainless, I don't understand what you mean by unpublished or unlisted? Can you spell it out for me, I'm confused..

    3) Unless authorized by the chief administrator of the correctional facility, a weapon or other implement
    which may be used to injure a prisoner or other person, or in assisting a prisoner to escape from
    imprisonment, shall not be brought into or onto any correctional facility.
    I did notice that there was no specified penalty or whether it was a felony or misdemeanor to do so, But the language is pretty plain.

    "Shall not be brought into any correctional facility".

    I suppose the argument could be made as to WHERE the correctional facility starts and ends, since I did not find any specific definition I suppose the Sheriff believes it starts at the door.

    Unless you can provide a cite as to otherwise of course.
    Last edited by xd shooter; 03-13-2012 at 12:31 AM.

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    how then, is a correctional facility defined?

  16. #16
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    Stainless, I don't understand what you mean by unpublished or unlisted? Can you spell it out for me, I'm confused..


    I did notice that there was no specified penalty or whether it was a felony or misdemeanor to do so, But the language is pretty plain.

    "Shall not be brought into any correctional facility".

    I suppose the argument could be made as to WHERE the correctional facility starts and ends, since I did not find any specific definition I suppose the Sheriff believes it starts at the door.

    Unless you can provide a cite as to otherwise of course.
    That is not a Legal Cite as you have provided No Links to the law. Please do so!

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Same old song & dance......

    These person(s) female at window & under-sheriff need to take a refresher course in how to speak to the public. They were in my opinion very disrespectful to the OP. In essence he was treated like a 12yr. [In their defense - he does look young, but not that young ]. Now this is the question people should be asking: why is the sheriff so worried about the public? If you were some nut wanting to go on a shooting spree would the stupid & unlawful sign on the door stop you? I highly doubt it! So the motive must be something else, maybe it's keeping the little people in their places? The staff there really seem to have the - it's us "troops" against you piss-ants mentally from what I heard. If that is truly how they feel they need to resign as PUBLIC SERVANTS!

    This is the same crap WaCo tried to pull. *Note the undercover officer who starts barking orders is the Wayne Co. Rep for the Concealed Licensing board, if anyone there should of known gun laws it would be him one would think? ???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXNLj...eature=channel

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh8Xc...feature=relmfu
    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 03-13-2012 at 12:53 AM. Reason: Links WaCo
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

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    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zzr...me=mcl-791-215

    791.215 “Correctional facility” defined.
    Sec. 15.

    As used in this act, “correctional facility” means a facility or institution which is maintained and operated by the department.
    Well...That didn't help!!

    umm...http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...s/firearms.pdf

    Scroll down to section 800.283 Weapons; prohibitions.

    Here, this better defines it...http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zzr...me=mcl-800-283

    Just as a question here, does anyone really think that carrying a weapon into a jail is a good idea?
    Last edited by xd shooter; 03-13-2012 at 12:52 AM.

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    The video is only viewable to those who have the link.

    IMO when the police refuse to follow the law, it should be screamed from the rooftops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post


    Just as a question here, does anyone really think that carrying a weapon into a jail is a good idea?
    Yes, dont you know what kind of people live there?

    Besides, the police have no duty to protect us.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 03-13-2012 at 01:00 AM.

  21. #21
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    looks like your good to OC in the public areas to me
    huh strange that it just says "concealed weapons are not allowed in this building"

    ETA and CC per state law :P
    Last edited by RenkaiWulf; 03-13-2012 at 01:04 AM.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zzr...me=mcl-791-215



    Well...That didn't help!!

    umm...http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...s/firearms.pdf

    Scroll down to section 800.283 Weapons; prohibitions.

    Here, this better defines it...http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zzr...me=mcl-800-283

    Just as a question here, does anyone really think that carrying a weapon into a jail is a good idea?
    No one is asking to carry in a jail. The places here are public lobbies used to conduct public business: drop off forms (which OP was doing) get photo's taken for CPL's, pick-up public records etc..

    None of the described above is anything a "JAIL" does to the best of my knowledge, that is where many are getting confused. Yes the jail area should be a restricted area, however the public business areas cannot be, as their function is to serve the law-abiding public, not just the members of the public that the Sheriff feels comfortable with. Maybe in addition to legally armed citizens the sheriff is uncomfortable with: blind people, short people, fat people, skinny people, people in wheel chairs, etc... should he be allowed to bar them from conducting business in a area their tax dollars paid for? After all - a seeing eye dog could attack him, a fat person could fall on him, the wheelchair person could run over his toes, the skinny person could use their boney elbows as weapons right, the short person could head-butt him in the groin ?

    As with Wayne Co. I see this sign being changed in the end. The picture here is of the Red original ones WaCo Sheriffs posts had up. It said - All Firearms are prohibited beyond this point [the lobby door]. They are now yellow and say - No firearms allowed in the restricted areas of this building. It is correct to the letter of the law because, the public is not allowed in secure areas of these buildings. On a side note: not too long after the sign changed, the County clerks window was moved from the lobby in question to a different spot in this building, with a different set of doors and with a full wall divider. I guess this was an attempt to limit the sheriffs exposure to the public? Thanks to MOC for getting the Wayne Co. Sheriff's to change their signs.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Glock9mmOldStyle; 03-13-2012 at 01:57 AM. Reason: Dig up 2yr. old Pic
    “A government that does not trust it’s law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is itself unworthy of trust.” James Madison.

    “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth.” “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.” George Washington

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    wow, really great job. i'm sure that officer would have suddenly drawn a blank if he had arrested you. he would have had a hard time coming up with a law you had broken.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

  24. #24
    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I find it funny they consider themselves a business like they're a private business. I mean if you don't like the way they run things you can always call over to the next county to have them take care of...oh wait you can't.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

  25. #25
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zzr...me=mcl-791-215

    Well...That didn't help!!

    umm...http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...s/firearms.pdf

    Scroll down to section 800.283 Weapons; prohibitions.

    Here, this better defines it...http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(zzr...me=mcl-800-283

    Just as a question here, does anyone really think that carrying a weapon into a jail is a good idea?
    Is this what passes for Legal Cites in your mind? Man, I think you need to understand what a Legal Cite is. Neither of these even apply and only show what your real feelings ARE ("does anyone really think that carrying a weapon into a jail is a good idea?"). I believe that you neither understand the OP nor anyone else here in this thread. No Post in this thread has anyone other than yourself believed that someone was trying to CARRY INTO A JAIL, rather the OP was in the Public Accessible Areas of the Lapeer County Sheriff's Office and not the Secured Areas of a Jail.

    The Lapeer County Jail is operated by the County of Lapeer. Context is KEY here.

    http://www.county.lapeer.org/Sheriff/jail.html

    First of all, let's take a look at your first legal cite:

    MCL 791.215, as part of the CORRECTIONS CODE OF 1953 (EXCERPT) Act 232 of 1953, must be taken into CONTEXT. The following is the FIRST MCL in this Act:

    Quote Originally Posted by MCL 791.201
    State department of corrections; creation; powers and duties; administration; Michigan corrections commission; appointment, qualifications, and terms of members; officers and assistants; director as executive head; vacancy; compensation and expenses; executive office; office accommodations; meetings.

    Sec. 1.

    There is hereby created a state department of corrections, hereinafter called the department, which shall possess the powers and perform the duties granted and conferred. The department shall consist of and be administered by a commission of 6 members appointed by the governor, by and with the advice and consent of the senate, to be known as the Michigan corrections commission, hereinafter called the commission, not more than 3 of whom shall be members of the same political party, each of whom shall qualify by taking the constitutional oath of office, and filing the same in the office of the secretary of state, and of such other officers and assistants as may be appointed or employed in the department, including a director as its executive head. A person holding a position either state or federal, or a person drawing a salary from a municipal unit of the state, shall not be eligible for appointment to the commission, without having first resigned from that position. The term of office of each member of the commission shall be 6 years. The governor shall fill a vacancy occurring in the membership of the commission for the unexpired term only, and for cause established on hearing may remove a member. Each member of the commission shall hold office until his successor shall be appointed and shall qualify. The per diem compensation of the commission and the schedule for reimbursement of expenses shall be established annually by the legislature. The department and commission shall have its executive office at Lansing. The department of management and budget shall provide suitable office accommodations. Meetings of the commission may be held at other suitable places as the commission may designate.
    This Act created a STATE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, not the Lapeer County Jail, so MCL 791.215 does not apply let alone does not speak to Firearms in Public Accessible Areas of the Lapeer County Sheriff's Department. Your Legal Cite follows:

    Quote Originally Posted by MCL 791.215
    “Correctional facility” defined.

    Sec. 15.

    As used in this act, “correctional facility” means a facility or institution which is maintained and operated by the department.
    Next, lets look at your second legal cite:

    MCL 800.283, as part of the LIQUOR, NARCOTICS, AND WEAPONS PROHIBITED IN PRISONS (EXCERPT) Act 17 of 1909, must be taken into CONTEXT. The following are the DEFINITIONS in this Act:

    Quote Originally Posted by MCL 800.281a
    Definitions.

    Sec. 1a.

    As used in this act:

    (a) “Alcoholic liquor” means any spirituous, vinous, malt, or fermented liquor, liquid, or compound whether or not medicated, containing 1/2 of 1% or more of alcohol by volume and which is or readily can be made suitable for beverage purposes.

    (b) “Chief administrator” means the warden, superintendent, or other employee approved or designated by the department of corrections as the chief administrative officer of a correctional facility.

    (c) “Controlled substance” means a drug, substance, or immediate precursor in schedules 1 to 5 of part 72 of 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.7201 to 333.7231.

    (d) “Department” means the department of corrections.

    (e) “Correctional facility” means any of the following:

    (i) A state prison, reformatory, work camp, or community corrections center.

    (ii) A youth correctional facility operated by the department or a private vendor under section 20g of 1953 PA 232, MCL 791.232.

    (iii) A privately operated community corrections center or resident home which houses prisoners committed to the jurisdiction of the department.

    (iv) The land on which a facility described in subparagraph (i), (ii), or (iii) is located.

    (f) “Prescription drug” means prescription drug as defined in section 17708 of 1978 PA 368, MCL 333.17708.

    (g) “Prisoner” means a person committed to the jurisdiction of the department who has not been released on parole or discharged.
    This Act describes PROHIBITED ACTS IN FACILITIES UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, not the Lapeer County Jail, so MCL 800.281a does not apply to the Public Accessible Areas of the Lapeer County Sheriff's Department. Your Legal Cite follows:

    Quote Originally Posted by 800.283
    Weapons; prohibitions.

    Sec. 3.

    (1) Unless authorized by the chief administrator of the correctional facility, a weapon or other implement which may be used to injure a prisoner or other person, or in assisting a prisoner to escape from imprisonment, shall not be sold, given, or furnished, either directly or indirectly, to a prisoner who is in or on the correctional facility, or be disposed of in a manner or in a place that it may be secured by a prisoner who is in or on the correctional facility.

    (2) Unless authorized by the chief administrator of the correctional facility, a person, who knows or has reason to know that another person is a prisoner, shall not sell, give, or furnish, either directly or indirectly, to that prisoner anywhere outside of a correctional facility a weapon or other implement which may be used to injure a prisoner or other person or in assisting a prisoner to escape from imprisonment.

    (3) Unless authorized by the chief administrator of the correctional facility, a weapon or other implement which may be used to injure a prisoner or other person, or in assisting a prisoner to escape from imprisonment, shall not be brought into or onto any correctional facility.

    (4) Unless authorized by the chief administrator of the correctional facility, a prisoner shall not have in his or her possession or under his or her control a weapon or other implement which may be used to injure a prisoner or other person, or to assist a prisoner to escape from imprisonment.
    If the Lapeer County Jail was actually run by the STATE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, then MCL 800.283(3) would apply but it most certainly does not apply.

    Please do try to provide BETTER LEGAL CITES next time, especially ones that ACTUALLY APPLY TO THE CONTEXT BEING DISCUSSED.

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