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Thread: Can you Survive A Knife Attack While OCing

  1. #1
    Regular Member Rollbar's Avatar
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    Can you Survive A Knife Attack While OCing


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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Just hangin' out...


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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    I really did think this thread was gonna be 21-foot rule guy, for some reason.


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    Regular Member WOD's Avatar
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    Be safe, be prepared, and carry on!

    Alle Ihre Basisstation jetzt zu uns gehören

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    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post

    3 DVD set, 1 new from $159.95

    Single DVD, 1 new from $59.95

    Not exactly reasonably/popularly priced are they? Yeah I know, my life is worth more than that.

    Also I am not exactly a fan of Gabe Suarez.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Great video. Should be viewed by all firearms carriers!

    Its called the Tueller Drill. Sergeant Dennis Tueller, of the Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department wondered how quickly an attacker with a knife could cover 21 feet (6.4 m), so he timed volunteers as they raced to stab the target. He determined that it could be done in 1.5 seconds. These results were first published as an article in SWAT magazine in 1983 and in a police training video by the same title, "How Close is Too Close?"

    The drill is demonstrated in the SFA CCW class.

  8. #8
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    I guess it all depends on the type of knife. Is it a switch blade knife a thug in NYC carries around, or is it a knife like Mick Dundee carries around?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    The Tueller Drill is one of those things, like the Ten Commandments, that is spoken of reverently like it were gospel and set in stone.

    While I understand the principle demonstrated, I've always had the question, "Why would I stand still and wait for a determined attacker to reach me?" IMO that is the flaw in the TD.

    Move, retreat, use any available barrier - time, space and distance are your friends.

    Remember that we are not talking about an untrained potential victim here, but someone with handgun training - those are the standards set by Sgt. Tueller. Granted that anyone can be successfully attacked/injured under the right conditions. Everything being equal, the prevailing rule is that the first person to move wins - it is up to us to change the rule/outcome.

    Just a different POV - it may help.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    You have to be aware of what's going on around you. A man with a knife can attack from 21 feet and be on top of you within 1.3 to 1.5 seconds. What's your reaction time? What's your pull time from a level 2 holster? Now can you get your weapon up and on target and fire with whatever fraction of a second you have left? Practice, practice, practice draw and dry fire. It may save your life.

    Also, keep in mind being stabbed, or cut with a knife probably won't kill you, at least not immediately. Keep on fighting, get to cover run, kick, punch, shoot, whatever it takes to stay alive. Same goes with gun shots. Rarely does a victim go down, or become completely incapacitated with one gun shot. That happens on video games and movies. And sometimes in real life when people fall down, because that's what they've seen on TV.
    Last edited by FallonJeeper; 03-13-2012 at 11:30 PM.

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    Regular Member ncwabbit's Avatar
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    sitiuational awareness is key as has been espoused out here forever...

    marshaul...SA foremost...sorry if i saw the man learing and lurking behind a tree (here little boy i have candy for you...), hand behind his back bouncing back and forth, i am afraid i would already have my pistol out in the ready position and as soon as the bloke started and showed his weapon of choice he would have been dropped...

    wabbit

    ps: when i did the NRA's version of this exercise, tap shooter's shoulder and the shooter raises from ready and double taps, my fat arse managed to get almost 15 feet away... (course took me 10 minutes to catch my breath, but i got an eye opening on my 'protection' zone from that point on)
    Last edited by ncwabbit; 03-14-2012 at 05:16 PM. Reason: clarification

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    Regular Member rushcreek2's Avatar
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    I do not allow "questionable types" to approach me - if I can avoid it.

    This is why the wife and I seldom, if ever, go to a movie, go out to eat, or shop after about 3 PM.

    I used to live in a condo in a relatively high-crime area of Colorado Springs - never again ! Way too much opportunity for "QT's" to get close to you in the dark.

    I have a successful track record of dissuading "QT's" from probing my perimeter. Yes - I can be very "abrasive" when I feel it is necessary, and the higher the density of "QT's" - the more I OC - regardless of the jurisdiction. I think only an utter fool would attack a person openly wearing a firearm. Of course fools abound , and seem to be thriving - I know, but I think not for much longer.

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    Just me

    My personal thoughts, if someone has a knife and are close you are gonna get cut. But cut does not mean dead. Fight back and win.

    That's also why I carry a CAT tourniquet and cellox or Quickclot. Self defense is sometimes followed by self aid.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    A kick to the crotch can give you a little more time as well. The general rules of a guy fighting a guy are out the window if your life is threatened.

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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncwabbit View Post
    marshaul...SA foremost...sorry if i saw the man learing and lurking behind a tree (here little boy i have candy for you...), hand behind his back bouncing back and forth, i am afraid i would already have my pistol out in the ready position and as soon as the bloke started and showed his weapon of choice he would have been dropped...
    lol, I posted those videos for their comedic value.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    A kick to the crotch can give you a little more time as well. The general rules of a guy fighting a guy are out the window if your life is threatened.
    If you find yourself in a "fair" fight then your tactics suck!
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  17. #17
    Regular Member sawah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    3 DVD set, 1 new from $159.95

    Single DVD, 1 new from $59.95

    Not exactly reasonably/popularly priced are they? Yeah I know, my life is worth more than that.

    Also I am not exactly a fan of Gabe Suarez.
    Oh? Care to say why? I'd be interested in your take on Gabe.

    On the 'why would people stand still and wait to be attacked?' question, if someone is trying to deploy their firearm, they often are 'rooted' to the ground. Thus the drill to 'get off the "X"'. Why do they have this drill? Well, one of the OODA loop problems is we are trying to see our firearm/keys/OC spray or whatever when having tunnel vision and you tend to 'freeze' when startled, and maybe shout 'Ah-ah-ah'. (or I do).

    It takes some training not to freeze while you're trying to operate your gear. Do the same drill with a rubber knife and a tame foe and you're very agile. It's weird. Some people are movers, some are 'freezers' when the REAL threat comes at you. (it's hard to get a 'real' threat simulated in training, btw).
    A firearm is a tool of convenience, not effectiveness - Clint Smith, Thunder Ranch

  18. #18
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sawah View Post
    Oh? Care to say why? I'd be interested in your take on Gabe.

    On the 'why would people stand still and wait to be attacked?' question, if someone is trying to deploy their firearm, they often are 'rooted' to the ground. Thus the drill to 'get off the "X"'. Why do they have this drill? Well, one of the OODA loop problems is we are trying to see our firearm/keys/OC spray or whatever when having tunnel vision and you tend to 'freeze' when startled, and maybe shout 'Ah-ah-ah'. (or I do).

    It takes some training not to freeze while you're trying to operate your gear. Do the same drill with a rubber knife and a tame foe and you're very agile. It's weird. Some people are movers, some are 'freezers' when the REAL threat comes at you. (it's hard to get a 'real' threat simulated in training, btw).
    My take on Gabe is best descibed as a mismatch in style and personality and leave anything else out. No I won't expand on that more.

    The natural instinct choices are fight or flight and they are 180 degrees opposed when a singular reaction. The task is to integrate the two - not always easily accomplished. I was an amateur boxer in my youth - never believed in going toe-to-toe. Always moving - defense and offense being part of the same game plan - train and retrain = coordinated reaction.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Can you survive this?

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