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Can you Survive A Knife Attack While OCing

Rollbar

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[video=youtube;9igSoJHEdUo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9igSoJHEdUo&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 

marshaul

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I really did think this thread was gonna be 21-foot rule guy, for some reason.

[video=youtube;uMJDqV1nQXc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMJDqV1nQXc[/video]
 

Grapeshot

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varminter22

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Great video. Should be viewed by all firearms carriers!

Its called the Tueller Drill. Sergeant Dennis Tueller, of the Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department wondered how quickly an attacker with a knife could cover 21 feet (6.4 m), so he timed volunteers as they raced to stab the target. He determined that it could be done in 1.5 seconds. These results were first published as an article in SWAT magazine in 1983 and in a police training video by the same title, "How Close is Too Close?"

The drill is demonstrated in the SFA CCW class.
 

OC for ME

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I guess it all depends on the type of knife. Is it a switch blade knife a thug in NYC carries around, or is it a knife like Mick Dundee carries around?
 

Grapeshot

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The Tueller Drill is one of those things, like the Ten Commandments, that is spoken of reverently like it were gospel and set in stone.

While I understand the principle demonstrated, I've always had the question, "Why would I stand still and wait for a determined attacker to reach me?" IMO that is the flaw in the TD.

Move, retreat, use any available barrier - time, space and distance are your friends.

Remember that we are not talking about an untrained potential victim here, but someone with handgun training - those are the standards set by Sgt. Tueller. Granted that anyone can be successfully attacked/injured under the right conditions. Everything being equal, the prevailing rule is that the first person to move wins - it is up to us to change the rule/outcome.

Just a different POV - it may help.
 

FallonJeeper

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You have to be aware of what's going on around you. A man with a knife can attack from 21 feet and be on top of you within 1.3 to 1.5 seconds. What's your reaction time? What's your pull time from a level 2 holster? Now can you get your weapon up and on target and fire with whatever fraction of a second you have left? Practice, practice, practice draw and dry fire. It may save your life.

Also, keep in mind being stabbed, or cut with a knife probably won't kill you, at least not immediately. Keep on fighting, get to cover run, kick, punch, shoot, whatever it takes to stay alive. Same goes with gun shots. Rarely does a victim go down, or become completely incapacitated with one gun shot. That happens on video games and movies. And sometimes in real life when people fall down, because that's what they've seen on TV.
 
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ncwabbit

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sitiuational awareness is key as has been espoused out here forever...

marshaul...SA foremost...sorry if i saw the man learing and lurking behind a tree (here little boy i have candy for you...), hand behind his back bouncing back and forth, i am afraid i would already have my pistol out in the ready position and as soon as the bloke started and showed his weapon of choice he would have been dropped...

wabbit

ps: when i did the NRA's version of this exercise, tap shooter's shoulder and the shooter raises from ready and double taps, my fat arse managed to get almost 15 feet away... (course took me 10 minutes to catch my breath, but i got an eye opening on my 'protection' zone from that point on)
 
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rushcreek2

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I do not allow "questionable types" to approach me - if I can avoid it.

This is why the wife and I seldom, if ever, go to a movie, go out to eat, or shop after about 3 PM.

I used to live in a condo in a relatively high-crime area of Colorado Springs - never again ! Way too much opportunity for "QT's" to get close to you in the dark.

I have a successful track record of dissuading "QT's" from probing my perimeter. Yes - I can be very "abrasive" when I feel it is necessary, and the higher the density of "QT's" - the more I OC - regardless of the jurisdiction. I think only an utter fool would attack a person openly wearing a firearm. Of course fools abound , and seem to be thriving - I know, but I think not for much longer.
 

stargateranch

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Feb 25, 2012
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West Jordan
Just me

My personal thoughts, if someone has a knife and are close you are gonna get cut. But cut does not mean dead. Fight back and win.

That's also why I carry a CAT tourniquet and cellox or Quickclot. Self defense is sometimes followed by self aid.
 

marshaul

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marshaul...SA foremost...sorry if i saw the man learing and lurking behind a tree (here little boy i have candy for you...), hand behind his back bouncing back and forth, i am afraid i would already have my pistol out in the ready position and as soon as the bloke started and showed his weapon of choice he would have been dropped...

lol, I posted those videos for their comedic value. :lol:
 

sawah

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Jan 22, 2011
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Virginia
3 DVD set, 1 new from $159.95

Single DVD, 1 new from $59.95

Not exactly reasonably/popularly priced are they? Yeah I know, my life is worth more than that.

Also I am not exactly a fan of Gabe Suarez.

Oh? Care to say why? I'd be interested in your take on Gabe.

On the 'why would people stand still and wait to be attacked?' question, if someone is trying to deploy their firearm, they often are 'rooted' to the ground. Thus the drill to 'get off the "X"'. Why do they have this drill? Well, one of the OODA loop problems is we are trying to see our firearm/keys/OC spray or whatever when having tunnel vision and you tend to 'freeze' when startled, and maybe shout 'Ah-ah-ah'. (or I do).

It takes some training not to freeze while you're trying to operate your gear. Do the same drill with a rubber knife and a tame foe and you're very agile. It's weird. Some people are movers, some are 'freezers' when the REAL threat comes at you. (it's hard to get a 'real' threat simulated in training, btw).
 

Grapeshot

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Oh? Care to say why? I'd be interested in your take on Gabe.

On the 'why would people stand still and wait to be attacked?' question, if someone is trying to deploy their firearm, they often are 'rooted' to the ground. Thus the drill to 'get off the "X"'. Why do they have this drill? Well, one of the OODA loop problems is we are trying to see our firearm/keys/OC spray or whatever when having tunnel vision and you tend to 'freeze' when startled, and maybe shout 'Ah-ah-ah'. (or I do).

It takes some training not to freeze while you're trying to operate your gear. Do the same drill with a rubber knife and a tame foe and you're very agile. It's weird. Some people are movers, some are 'freezers' when the REAL threat comes at you. (it's hard to get a 'real' threat simulated in training, btw).

My take on Gabe is best descibed as a mismatch in style and personality and leave anything else out. No I won't expand on that more.

The natural instinct choices are fight or flight and they are 180 degrees opposed when a singular reaction. The task is to integrate the two - not always easily accomplished. I was an amateur boxer in my youth - never believed in going toe-to-toe. Always moving - defense and offense being part of the same game plan - train and retrain = coordinated reaction.
 
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