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Thread: HB 5050 and 5051

  1. #1
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    HB 5050 and 5051

    HB 5050 and 5051
    THE APPARENT PROBLEM:
    Federal law makes it a crime to intentionally lie to an FBI agent. But if a person deliberately lies to a state or local police officer in the course of a criminal investigation,there are no penalties. According to law enforcement officers and county prosecutors,some people purposely fabricate lies to throw investigators off the track. Whether to protect themselves or others, such lies waste valuable time and resources in apprehending criminals. While law enforcement follows up on worthless leads, a perpetrator is free to commit other crimes.

    A few states have enacted laws that make it a crime to knowingly and intentionally lie topolice when questioned in a criminal investigation. Many in law enforcement in thisstate believe enacting a similar law would give them an important tool to fight a rising
    tide of crime.


    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...SFA-5050-S.pdf

    CONTENT
    House Bill 5050 (H-4) would amend the Michigan Penal Code to prohibit and prescribe criminal penalties for concealing a material fact from a peace officer, or misleading a peace officer regarding a material fact, in a criminal investigation of a felony or a misdemeanor described in the bill.

    House Bill 5051 (H-1) would amend the Code of Criminal Procedure to include in the sentencing guidelines an offense proposed by House Bill 5050 (H-4).
    The bills would take effect 90 days after their enactment. House Bill 5051 (H-1) is tiebarred to House Bill 5050.
    House Bill 5050 (H-4)

    Under the bill, if a peace officer informed a person that he or she was conducting a criminal investigation, the person could not knowingly and willfully do any of the following:

    -- Conceal from the peace officer, by any trick, scheme, or device, any material fact relating to the criminal investigation.
    -- Make any statement to the peace officer that the person knew was false or misleading regarding a material fact in the criminal investigation.
    -- Issue or otherwise provide any writing or document to the peace officer that the person knew was false or misleading regarding a material fact in the criminal investigation.
    Last edited by Venator; 03-13-2012 at 02:11 PM.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  2. #2
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    The Bill does not Define nor reference any Statutory Definition of "material fact". Does this mean that it would be subjective based upon the case being investigated?

    I really do not like that the "punishment does not fit the crime" for trying to tie a person lying to another possible crime, which may or may not change in severity based upon multiple factors that may not be able to determined at the time the "lie" occurred.

    Reminds me of this:


  3. #3
    Regular Member griffin's Avatar
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    Logical question: If police are allowed to lie to us, why shouldn't we be allowed to lie to them?
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to."
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    "...go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." Samuel Adams
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  4. #4
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    The Bill does not Define nor reference any Statutory Definition of "material fact". Does this mean that it would be subjective based upon the case being investigated?

    I really do not like that the "punishment does not fit the crime" for trying to tie a person lying to another possible crime, which may or may not change in severity based upon multiple factors that may not be able to determined at the time the "lie" occurred.

    Reminds me of this:


    I agree, kind of wide open. Better to remain silent.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    logical question: If police are allowed to lie to us, why shouldn't we be allowed to lie to them?

    Last edited by stainless1911; 03-13-2012 at 07:57 PM.

  6. #6
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    HB 5050 and 5051
    THE APPARENT PROBLEM:
    Federal law makes it a crime to intentionally lie to an FBI agent. But if a person deliberately lies to a state or local police officer in the course of a criminal investigation,there are no penalties. According to law enforcement officers and county prosecutors,some people purposely fabricate lies to throw investigators off the track. Whether to protect themselves or others, such lies waste valuable time and resources in apprehending criminals. While law enforcement follows up on worthless leads, a perpetrator is free to commit other crimes.

    A few states have enacted laws that make it a crime to knowingly and intentionally lie topolice when questioned in a criminal investigation. Many in law enforcement in thisstate believe enacting a similar law would give them an important tool to fight a rising
    tide of crime.


    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...SFA-5050-S.pdf

    CONTENT
    House Bill 5050 (H-4) would amend the Michigan Penal Code to prohibit and prescribe criminal penalties for concealing a material fact from a peace officer, or misleading a peace officer regarding a material fact, in a criminal investigation of a felony or a misdemeanor described in the bill.

    House Bill 5051 (H-1) would amend the Code of Criminal Procedure to include in the sentencing guidelines an offense proposed by House Bill 5050 (H-4).
    The bills would take effect 90 days after their enactment. House Bill 5051 (H-1) is tiebarred to House Bill 5050.
    House Bill 5050 (H-4)

    Under the bill, if a peace officer informed a person that he or she was conducting a criminal investigation, the person could not knowingly and willfully do any of the following:

    -- Conceal from the peace officer, by any trick, scheme, or device, any material fact relating to the criminal investigation.
    -- Make any statement to the peace officer that the person knew was false or misleading regarding a material fact in the criminal investigation.
    -- Issue or otherwise provide any writing or document to the peace officer that the person knew was false or misleading regarding a material fact in the criminal investigation.

    Not immediately confessing your misdeeds in exquisite detail wastes' valuable time & resources', too. They should outlaw the 5th Amendment, while they're at it. Then we can start on the 8th. What a waste of time & energy, bothering judges & such, getting warrants when you just KNOW the evidence is 'in there'.....

    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

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