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Thread: Cee Lo of the Voice wears Military award and skill badge

  1. #26
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    *SNIP*If you attach rank insignia and other military patches to your camo, you may indeed be breaking the law, and rightly so.*/SNIP*
    When I worked for County EMS, everyone wore some sort of military insignia. Battalion Chief wore Silver Oak leaves on his collar, and liked to be called "Colonel"; Battalion Captain wore Captain Bars, and because he was a NRA marksman, wore the US Army Marksmanship medal on his formal uniform. Myself, and my former co-worker had to use the bars' of a Second Lieutenant on our collars at all times while on duty, along with the U.S. flag on our sleeves. The County Sheriff, when doing drug missions, wears full BDU or ACU camo, with a Subdued-black Brigadier General's star on his collar, full outfit, kevlar, US Flag, and the patch of the county sheriff's office.

    By all rights of what you say, not only myself, but everyone in nearly every EMS, Police, and Fire squadron/Unit, should be tried and found guilty for breaking the law, for using military insignia of some form, on our uniforms, on-duty or off.

    I have no wish to serve the nation's military, in combat or peace time; But, I rather enjoy wearing Camo here and there, and I can be easily spotted at, say Knob Creek, as I wear my camo jacket with the NREMT-B patch, Unit patch, my LT bar's, and the US Flag. Haven't once gotten confused, or asked, if I am or was apart of the Armed forces. And is that so bad?
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  2. #27
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    ...By all rights of what you say, not only myself, but everyone in nearly every EMS, Police, and Fire squadron/Unit, should be tried and found guilty for breaking the law, for using military insignia of some form, on our uniforms, on-duty or off....
    I tend to choose my words very carefully. Please note my use of the word "and" when I talked about military rank insignia AND other military patches. As an EMS, I doubt you had a patch above your breast pocket that said US Army and the other patches that an official uniform would have.

    I can't pretend this is an easy issue, and I can't say I know exactly what the law should be (if any).

    And if I saw you at Knob Creek wearing that, I would WANT to assume you were a veteran who earned what you were wearing on your fatigues. Some things are more important than others, of course. A flag may be appropriate whereas LT bars and a unit patch might not be. I don't know where to draw the line either.

    I do remember when I was a naval officer that I often thought how easy it would be to impersonate one. I think it would mostly be the air of confidence and knowing a few procedures that makes the difference.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-14-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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  3. #28
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Wearing a gun and wearing a recognizable uniform are two very different things.

    I honestly don't know what to think about wearing someone else's medals out of memory. I'm inclined to be against it, but not criminally. You wouldn't argue that they could wear the other person's entire uniform, would you?

    Where would we draw the line? Should we at all? It's a fair question. One of my personal heroes was a man I had the privilege of meeting with twice before he died, Rear Admiral Eugene Fluckey, USN. He earned a CMH and four Navy Crosses. If I could count him as a best friend, I couldn't see wearing them in his honor; so there has to be a line somewhere, right? This is my opinion, if you are of the opinion that it would be okay, then you are entitled to that, too. I consider them part of an official uniform of identification issued by a government.

    It's a touchy subject to be sure, and I appreciate the debate from the reasonable individuals, regardless their viewpoint.
    A debate for sure. Not an argument. Reason, in my opinion, is the best way to deal with reasonable individuals. When emotions get involved there is no way to even understand the others view point because everyone is stuck in the emotions not logic.

    I would like to draw the line where there is a victim. If I do anything to lead you to believe I am something that I am not to victimize you or caused you to be a victim then I think what I did was or should illegal. If I did something that didn't hurt anyone at all then I don't think a crime has been committed. I understand that the medals are sacred and means things to people that it was awarded to. I feel that they are sacred too, but that is just an OPINION and I honestly don't think opinions should be enforced as law or to become law.

    Edit: Of course I am exaggerating to show what this, if it is or became law, could turn into or potentially be used for.
    Last edited by 09jisaac; 03-14-2012 at 07:07 PM.
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  4. #29
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    Ah, another "out yourself" thread.

    You either support liberty, or you don't. That includes the right to wear symbols that offend someone.

  5. #30
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    Fraud is a crime already. Wearing or claiming false awards or positions for personal gain therefore is illegal.

  6. #31
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComradeV View Post
    Fraud is a crime already. Wearing or claiming false awards or positions for personal gain therefore is illegal.
    Can you provide a cite of a law that he broke?
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallonJeeper View Post
    It kills me that lies are considered free speech. Those of us that earned wings and medals are offended by the pretenders. I offered my life and a life time of service to my country. I gave blood, sweat, and tears. For somebody to tarnish it like that is a shame.

    I guess wearing ribbons medals or wings, in honor of somebody, and not claiming the status for yourself would be different. I believe the Stolen Valor Act was created because some people were getting crazy with claiming war veteran status, Navy Seals, you name it, and making money from it.

    I'd like to hear it from Cee Lo. He may have lost someone, very close to him, that wore those awards.
    This is a toughy for me because I specifically place so much emphasis and pride as a matter of service on my decorations and awards, and more importantly, those decorations and awards earned by my brethren. It angers me, and frustrates me, but, it all goes back to free speech.

    I feel you completely on this subject as far as the emotional attachment, but so long as their is no "gain" from the idiot pretender, then what is the harm (outside of potentially running in to an actual servicemember and being made into an idiot or hurt)?

    My medals were earned because I earned them. I have the DD214 to back it and a shelf full of coins. They are mine. I know what they all represent and that anybody else lay claim to the same fallaciously is hurtful but gives their awards and medals no value whatsoever.

    Those medals that have fiscal or beneficial attachment to monetary/medical benefits should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for fraud.
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    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Those who do not know what the bling means will not be impressed except that it is shiney.

    Those that know what it is will know that the person is claiming something they are not entitled to, as well as being a tool/fool.

    As a vet with fruit salad I agree with the court ruling that the Stolen Valor Act is unconsitutional. Besides, there are other laws that can deal with the fraud(s) some of these individuals commit when they claim those honors. Jusat as there is no need to make other acts even more criminal than they already are (except to make some legislator look good for "doing something" about something).

    Seriously, there ought to be a law against passing laws that deal with stuff the laws already deal with quite adequately.

    stay safe.
    +1

    Pity the poor soul whose opinion of himself is so low he has to puff himself up by wearing unearned medals, or has such a strong desire for attention. In the long run, he's the bigger loser (double entendre).

  9. #34
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Ah, another "out yourself" thread.

    You either support liberty, or you don't. That includes the right to wear symbols that offend someone.
    I, for one, am not talking about offending people. I think the subject at hand is at what point are we purposely misrepresenting ourselves to be wrong, and and what point does that wrongness become a crime, if any. It's fair to say that the thread has also wandered a bit beyond the OP's mention of a celebrity (assumed though I've never heard of him) wearing a military medal and service badge sans uniform.

    I am not a lawyer (thank God) and I am having trouble figuring this one out. I do not know what the existing laws are regarding misrepresentation.

    But I'm not going to sit on a high horse and look down on people who are discussing the issue because there might be some semblance of a compromise somewhere. You can be pro-liberty and pro-LIMITED-government at the same time. Liberty does not equal anarchy.
    Last edited by MAC702; 03-15-2012 at 12:10 AM.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Liberty does not equal anarchy.
    It also does not equal criminalizing behavior which has no injured victim. Keep your moral ideas off my rights, please.

    Total ignorance: an Obama supporter's stock in trade
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    All the talk about Overthrowing Big Government, Revolution, etc., it's just another one of those nostalgic ideas that individuals have idealized.
    O RLY?
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  11. #36
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    You can be pro-liberty and pro-LIMITED-government at the same time.
    Sure you can. Those two gun hand in hand.

    With no government the only people who are fee are the ones that have enough power to stop other people from harming them or people with nothing that anyone else wants to take. There can never truly be no government. Always a government will fill that void. Be it a self appointed dictator, a oligarchy or a democracy. It may be in a small level such as a household, community, town etc.

    So a government will happen because it is needed, but it just needs to be big enough to defend liberty. If it gets any bigger than that then it starts taking the liberty it was established to protect.
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  12. #37
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    Generally I've never been really bothered by it and I'm a vet.

    But I do have an exception. Any medals for gallantry, heroism, etc, should be off limits. And it should be a felony to wear them. Heck, I won't even touch my father's Silver Star.

    Medals like the MOH, the Stars, a few of the Crosses. I'm sure I forgot some.

    If someone wants to wear the marksman badge, aviator's wings or the GDM who cares? It's whatever...
    Aviators care. We earned those wings.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  13. #38
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley View Post
    If god****ed civilians won't have any respect on their own then by god we'll make them! <- Just joking.

    It already is illegal to wear the medals.

    Stolen Valor Act...

    Under the act, it is illegal for unauthorized persons to wear, buy, sell, barter, trade, or manufacture “any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces.”

    I think or thought it was gonna be reviewed by SCOTUS though as a federal judge ruled it unconstitutional in Denver and then a District judge overturned that ruling... So as of now it is illegal but maybe not because it may be unconstitutional???
    /head spinning
    It's at the SC right now.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  14. #39
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Ah, another "out yourself" thread.

    You either support liberty, or you don't. That includes the right to wear symbols that offend someone.
    +1

    Posted using my HTCEvo via Tapatalk

  15. #40
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    I can dress as a doctor, but should not perform surgery.
    I can dress as a cop (in WA), but not issue a ticket.
    I can dress as a judge, lawyer, pilot, Indian Chief, etc.

    Dress how you like. Someone wearing a GCM does not in any way harm me.

    People will do these things. You can't stop them. An infinite number of malum prohibitum laws simply have ensured that no one can be responsible for knowing them, "ignorance is no excuse" should now be "hmm, I didn't know that either!".

  16. #41
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim675 View Post
    People will do these things. You can't stop them. An infinite number of malum prohibitum laws simply have ensured that no one can be responsible for knowing them, "ignorance is no excuse" should now be "hmm, I didn't know that either!".
    This "celebbity" is, by circumstance, a role model. "Support the Soldiers", easy to say. When people do this, "I didn't know that either!" is not an excuse. Call his butt out in public.
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Washi...66874943419858

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  17. #42
    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Sure! Use public embarrassment to enforce a sense of decency. I have no problem with that. I just think this does not rise to the importance needed to create a law that provides an exception to the 1A.

  18. #43
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim675 View Post
    Sure! Use public embarrassment to enforce a sense of decency. I have no problem with that. I just think this does not rise to the importance needed to create a law that provides an exception to the 1A.
    I don't think anyone here has a problem with that.
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  19. #44
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    Former military here and I don't see a problem with it. He is not claiming to have served and IMO it is no different then a child dressing up for Halloween in a flight suit with patches and wings. Those that claim to have earned medals and decorations for careers on the other hand are imposters that I feel should be made illegal. If I impersonated a cop there would be hell to pay. Maybe this was his attempt at showing support. Now put him in a fighter jet (if he fits) and see how quickly he realizes those wings have a little more then a job description behind them.

    The important thing is not what the person is wearing but who the person is. Just because you are wearing a Medal of Honor does not mean you earned it and there are those that have earned it but have not be given it. Those that follow them usually have a good idea of what the person is like. When I was in (Air Force 95-2002) the only way you could get an achievement medal was to PCS. We joked it was a medal for you got out of here. I spent almost 7 years at Andrews and never got one because I never PCS'd out of there. When I got out I received a Commendation Medal for my service because they felt the Achievement was too low for everything I had done while there. Medals are fickle that way.

    A training class I had attended had a military member in it. He is Army and was infantry. He cross trained to Medical Equipment Maint. We said he was lucky to have gotten out and he was upset. He loved infantry. He crossed trained because he was blown up twice and shot three times on different occasions. We saw the scar the shrapnel had made to his arm and legs (he had to pull a piece out with a gerber). He was awarded the Purple Heart. He stayed in even though he was given the chance to get out but still serves to this day. During the class everyone tried to pay for his drinks since he could not expense it but he took offense to it and kept refusing it to the point we had to catch the waitress before she came to the table. Too many vets in our class to not let his service go unrecognized.

    It is not the decoration you wear but the person wearing it. Sometimes they match sometimes they don't. Now if you are on a plane and something happens to the pilot and co pilot and someone with wings gets up to help you might want to ask what the experience is because I probably have more flight sim hours then they have been in a plane.

  20. #45
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Looking back at my 20+ year Naval career, riding fast boats, I had many reasons why I joined and stayed in. The reasons were not always easily verbalized then as they are not easily verbalized today. Those many reasons were not always present at the same time. Some of those reason came and went, and then came back again. Some folks would have called some of the reasons selfish and some would have called them patriotic. Though, I would have never then, and do not today considered myself a patriot, I just did what I thought I had to do. What I thought was 'right' at the time.

    But, when I summarize my military career, I guess the predominate reason was that I felt is was worth my time and effort to do my small part, like millions of citizens before me, to ensue that this great nation and its citizens could do whatever the heck they wanted to.

    Liberty, and the freedom to chose to do or not to do. No other country on earth has the liberties we enjoy here. It is worth defending, it's worth defending her citizens, every single one of them. My likes and dislikes are insignificant compared to this great experiment in liberty that is America.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. - Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Archibald Stuart, December 23, 1791
    Citizens wearing military awards.....don't mean nuthin as far as I am concerned.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    My wife watches this so I see parts of it while I am reading. The other night I see the fat black guy wearing a US Army Good Conduct medal. A full size bleeding medal. He was also wearing a Naval Aviators wings. I tried to find out if he had ANY military service, and it just was not there.

    I have sent questions to the local media (TV, newspaper) and the are not addressing it. My question to you is........ Does this wrankle you as much as it does me?? Clowns like this that participate in Stolen Valor (it's an award/skill badge, not jewelry) just pi$$ me off.
    You can't "steal" valor.

    They're badges. Wearing them doesn't mean others who wear them didn't get trained or earn their badges through some sort of mettle.

    Welcome to freedom of speech, I guess.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    But, when I summarize my military career, I guess the predominate reason was that I felt is was worth my time and effort to do my small part, like millions of citizens before me, to ensue that this great nation and its citizens could do whatever the heck they wanted to.
    Amen, that's the same thought I had when I was in the military. Why some wish to create "holy symbols" out of pieces of government metal and cloth, I just don't know. I find the attitude particularly slavish and fawning. Thanks, but no thanks.

    Do as you will but harm no others. That's where it starts and ends with me.

  23. #48
    Regular Member Stanley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostOfJefferson View Post
    Amen, that's the same thought I had when I was in the military. Why some wish to create "holy symbols" out of pieces of government metal and cloth, I just don't know. I find the attitude particularly slavish and fawning. Thanks, but no thanks.

    Do as you will but harm no others. That's where it starts and ends with me.
    You guys make good points. Just remember some people are "slavish" about it and sometimes for a good reason. I used to be. Every man in my family that was in America has served since the civil war, white and black.

    I used to get hella angry as I considered, and still do consider it, a point of honor.

    It's a balance if being angry and forcing people to do what you want and realizing that forcing people to do what you want is no different than being a fascist and then what was the point of serving?

    Many people here are rabid liberty supporters and that's not a bad thing obviously. I'd just say that liberty isn't the only thing worthy of rabid support.

    So would I love to see civilians show some respect? Yes, absolutely.

    Will I hold a gun to your head and make you? No, because I served in the US Army and not the Chinese army.

    But I still make an exception for Valor medals. I wouldn't mind it being illegal to wear those. Though I would exclude children/family of those that earned those. I know, not really logical but what can I say???
    Last edited by Stanley; 03-16-2012 at 08:23 AM.
    "The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism." - George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796

  24. #49
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    A kid whose dad/mom/brother/sister/uncle/aunt/cousin/close friend made the ultimate sacrifice, for this country, deserves to wear his dad's et al stuff as a sign of respect and as a public display of honoring and reminding.

    Fortunately, in this country, the kid's neighbor or even a stranger may want to wear the same stuff for a very similar reason.

    Let anyone wear whatever they want. This is the very essence of liberty in my view. If the citizenry objects, let the citizenry, not the 'state', take care of it.
    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.

  25. #50
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    My wife watches this so I see parts of it while I am reading. The other night I see the fat black guy wearing a US Army Good Conduct medal. A full size bleeding medal. He was also wearing a Naval Aviators wings. I tried to find out if he had ANY military service, and it just was not there.

    I have sent questions to the local media (TV, newspaper) and the are not addressing it. My question to you is........ Does this wrankle you as much as it does me?? Clowns like this that participate in Stolen Valor (it's an award/skill badge, not jewelry) just pi$$ me off.
    While I believe it is pretentious (in fact, I thought it pretentious one of my coworkers wore his medals on a tux at the holiday party this year), it's only an insult if he didn't earn them. Do you know for a fact that he did not serve in the military and earn these? I simply ask, because I don't know.

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