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Cee Lo of the Voice wears Military award and skill badge

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
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Valhalla
Those who do not know what the bling means will not be impressed except that it is shiney.

Those that know what it is will know that the person is claiming something they are not entitled to, as well as being a tool/fool.

As a vet with fruit salad I agree with the court ruling that the Stolen Valor Act is unconsitutional. Besides, there are other laws that can deal with the fraud(s) some of these individuals commit when they claim those honors. Jusat as there is no need to make other acts even more criminal than they already are (except to make some legislator look good for "doing something" about something).

Seriously, there ought to be a law against passing laws that deal with stuff the laws already deal with quite adequately.

stay safe.
 

MAC702

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Jul 31, 2011
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Nevada
So, what you're saying is that those things issued by the U.S. government are deserving of greater legal protection than those things issued by God? Oh, wow...

Some people need to get over their butthurtedness and realize that until and unless the behavior of another infringes on your rights to life, liberty, or property, that behavior is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

Dammit. I couldn't remember why I had you on ignore, so I hit the "view post" button. Now I remember.

What I believe, and what the law says or should say are two different things. I am able to separate those things in a rational discussion. Please don't tell me what I am saying when you are wrong about what I am saying.

You will find no greater defender of personal liberty than myself. But lying and misrepresentation are not really about personal liberty, are they?
 

ManInBlack

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SW Idaho
You will find no greater defender of personal liberty than myself. But lying and misrepresentation are not really about personal liberty, are they?

You're completely right. Your desire to criminalize lying and misrepresentation that results in no injury to persons or property has nothing to do with personal liberty. It has to do with your personal feeling that you are somehow entitled to not be offended.
 
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MAC702

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6,331
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You do realize that not everyone who was awarded a medal earned it don't you?

Rightly so? So if you ASSUMED wrong then I should be a fault? Unless I try to convince you that I am something I am not then I don't see how I am at fault. You are walking on a slippery slope. Most of us carry a gun. You know who else carries a gun? Law Enforcement. So should I be guilty of impersonating a LEO just because somebody flipping burgers thought I was and gave me a discount normally reserved for officers. How about a widowed woman who wears her deceased husbands metals to formal occasions to honor his memory? Throw her in jail too? She didn't earn those medals.

I understand the point that is being made. I just don't believe in it. I don't hurt anyone if I wear a cop uniform, or military medals. Without a victim, I don't think a crime has been committed.

...

Wearing a gun and wearing a recognizable uniform are two very different things. I'd take the free discount from an idiot, too. After all, it's often illegal for an officer to solicit a discount, therefore the discount is subjective, and not criminal.

I honestly don't know what to think about wearing someone else's medals out of memory. I'm inclined to be against it, but not criminally. You wouldn't argue that they could wear the other person's entire uniform, would you?

Where would we draw the line? Should we at all? It's a fair question. One of my personal heroes was a man I had the privilege of meeting with twice before he died, Rear Admiral Eugene Fluckey, USN. He earned a CMH and four Navy Crosses. If I could count him as a best friend, I couldn't see wearing them in his honor; so there has to be a line somewhere, right? This is my opinion, if you are of the opinion that it would be okay, then you are entitled to that, too. I consider them part of an official uniform of identification issued by a government.

It's a touchy subject to be sure, and I appreciate the debate from the reasonable individuals, regardless their viewpoint.
 

ManInBlack

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I consider them part of an official uniform of identification issued by a government.

Why does the fact that it was issued by a government make the costume jewelry so sacred to you? Why is it more sacred, and apparently more deserving against unauthorized wear, than religious paraphernalia, Boy Scout insignia, Masonic gear, etc.?
 
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DrakeZ07

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Mar 26, 2011
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1,080
Location
Lexington, Ky
*SNIP*If you attach rank insignia and other military patches to your camo, you may indeed be breaking the law, and rightly so.*/SNIP*

When I worked for County EMS, everyone wore some sort of military insignia. Battalion Chief wore Silver Oak leaves on his collar, and liked to be called "Colonel"; Battalion Captain wore Captain Bars, and because he was a NRA marksman, wore the US Army Marksmanship medal on his formal uniform. Myself, and my former co-worker had to use the bars' of a Second Lieutenant on our collars at all times while on duty, along with the U.S. flag on our sleeves. The County Sheriff, when doing drug missions, wears full BDU or ACU camo, with a Subdued-black Brigadier General's star on his collar, full outfit, kevlar, US Flag, and the patch of the county sheriff's office.

By all rights of what you say, not only myself, but everyone in nearly every EMS, Police, and Fire squadron/Unit, should be tried and found guilty for breaking the law, for using military insignia of some form, on our uniforms, on-duty or off.

I have no wish to serve the nation's military, in combat or peace time; But, I rather enjoy wearing Camo here and there, and I can be easily spotted at, say Knob Creek, as I wear my camo jacket with the NREMT-B patch, Unit patch, my LT bar's, and the US Flag. Haven't once gotten confused, or asked, if I am or was apart of the Armed forces. And is that so bad?
 

MAC702

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...By all rights of what you say, not only myself, but everyone in nearly every EMS, Police, and Fire squadron/Unit, should be tried and found guilty for breaking the law, for using military insignia of some form, on our uniforms, on-duty or off....

I tend to choose my words very carefully. Please note my use of the word "and" when I talked about military rank insignia AND other military patches. As an EMS, I doubt you had a patch above your breast pocket that said US Army and the other patches that an official uniform would have.

I can't pretend this is an easy issue, and I can't say I know exactly what the law should be (if any).

And if I saw you at Knob Creek wearing that, I would WANT to assume you were a veteran who earned what you were wearing on your fatigues. Some things are more important than others, of course. A flag may be appropriate whereas LT bars and a unit patch might not be. I don't know where to draw the line either.

I do remember when I was a naval officer that I often thought how easy it would be to impersonate one. I think it would mostly be the air of confidence and knowing a few procedures that makes the difference.
 
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09jisaac

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Apr 13, 2011
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Louisa, Kentucky
Wearing a gun and wearing a recognizable uniform are two very different things.

I honestly don't know what to think about wearing someone else's medals out of memory. I'm inclined to be against it, but not criminally. You wouldn't argue that they could wear the other person's entire uniform, would you?

Where would we draw the line? Should we at all? It's a fair question. One of my personal heroes was a man I had the privilege of meeting with twice before he died, Rear Admiral Eugene Fluckey, USN. He earned a CMH and four Navy Crosses. If I could count him as a best friend, I couldn't see wearing them in his honor; so there has to be a line somewhere, right? This is my opinion, if you are of the opinion that it would be okay, then you are entitled to that, too. I consider them part of an official uniform of identification issued by a government.

It's a touchy subject to be sure, and I appreciate the debate from the reasonable individuals, regardless their viewpoint.

A debate for sure. Not an argument. Reason, in my opinion, is the best way to deal with reasonable individuals. When emotions get involved there is no way to even understand the others view point because everyone is stuck in the emotions not logic.

I would like to draw the line where there is a victim. If I do anything to lead you to believe I am something that I am not to victimize you or caused you to be a victim then I think what I did was or should illegal. If I did something that didn't hurt anyone at all then I don't think a crime has been committed. I understand that the medals are sacred and means things to people that it was awarded to. I feel that they are sacred too, but that is just an OPINION and I honestly don't think opinions should be enforced as law or to become law.

Edit: Of course I am exaggerating to show what this, if it is or became law, could turn into or potentially be used for.
 
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KBCraig

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Granite State of Mind
Ah, another "out yourself" thread.

You either support liberty, or you don't. That includes the right to wear symbols that offend someone.
 

slowfiveoh

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Sep 15, 2009
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1,415
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Richmond, VA
It kills me that lies are considered free speech. Those of us that earned wings and medals are offended by the pretenders. I offered my life and a life time of service to my country. I gave blood, sweat, and tears. For somebody to tarnish it like that is a shame.

I guess wearing ribbons medals or wings, in honor of somebody, and not claiming the status for yourself would be different. I believe the Stolen Valor Act was created because some people were getting crazy with claiming war veteran status, Navy Seals, you name it, and making money from it.

I'd like to hear it from Cee Lo. He may have lost someone, very close to him, that wore those awards.

This is a toughy for me because I specifically place so much emphasis and pride as a matter of service on my decorations and awards, and more importantly, those decorations and awards earned by my brethren. It angers me, and frustrates me, but, it all goes back to free speech.

I feel you completely on this subject as far as the emotional attachment, but so long as their is no "gain" from the idiot pretender, then what is the harm (outside of potentially running in to an actual servicemember and being made into an idiot or hurt)?

My medals were earned because I earned them. I have the DD214 to back it and a shelf full of coins. They are mine. I know what they all represent and that anybody else lay claim to the same fallaciously is hurtful but gives their awards and medals no value whatsoever.

Those medals that have fiscal or beneficial attachment to monetary/medical benefits should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for fraud.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
Those who do not know what the bling means will not be impressed except that it is shiney.

Those that know what it is will know that the person is claiming something they are not entitled to, as well as being a tool/fool.

As a vet with fruit salad I agree with the court ruling that the Stolen Valor Act is unconsitutional. Besides, there are other laws that can deal with the fraud(s) some of these individuals commit when they claim those honors. Jusat as there is no need to make other acts even more criminal than they already are (except to make some legislator look good for "doing something" about something).

Seriously, there ought to be a law against passing laws that deal with stuff the laws already deal with quite adequately.

stay safe.

+1

Pity the poor soul whose opinion of himself is so low he has to puff himself up by wearing unearned medals, or has such a strong desire for attention. In the long run, he's the bigger loser (double entendre).
 

MAC702

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Nevada
Ah, another "out yourself" thread.

You either support liberty, or you don't. That includes the right to wear symbols that offend someone.

I, for one, am not talking about offending people. I think the subject at hand is at what point are we purposely misrepresenting ourselves to be wrong, and and what point does that wrongness become a crime, if any. It's fair to say that the thread has also wandered a bit beyond the OP's mention of a celebrity (assumed though I've never heard of him) wearing a military medal and service badge sans uniform.

I am not a lawyer (thank God) and I am having trouble figuring this one out. I do not know what the existing laws are regarding misrepresentation.

But I'm not going to sit on a high horse and look down on people who are discussing the issue because there might be some semblance of a compromise somewhere. You can be pro-liberty and pro-LIMITED-government at the same time. Liberty does not equal anarchy.
 
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09jisaac

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Louisa, Kentucky
You can be pro-liberty and pro-LIMITED-government at the same time.

Sure you can. Those two gun hand in hand.

With no government the only people who are fee are the ones that have enough power to stop other people from harming them or people with nothing that anyone else wants to take. There can never truly be no government. Always a government will fill that void. Be it a self appointed dictator, a oligarchy or a democracy. It may be in a small level such as a household, community, town etc.

So a government will happen because it is needed, but it just needs to be big enough to defend liberty. If it gets any bigger than that then it starts taking the liberty it was established to protect.
 

Gunslinger

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Mar 6, 2008
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Free, Colorado, USA
Generally I've never been really bothered by it and I'm a vet.

But I do have an exception. Any medals for gallantry, heroism, etc, should be off limits. And it should be a felony to wear them. Heck, I won't even touch my father's Silver Star.

Medals like the MOH, the Stars, a few of the Crosses. I'm sure I forgot some.

If someone wants to wear the marksman badge, aviator's wings or the GDM who cares? It's whatever...

Aviators care. We earned those wings.
 

Gunslinger

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Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
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Free, Colorado, USA
If god****ed civilians won't have any respect on their own then by god we'll make them! <- Just joking.

It already is illegal to wear the medals.

Stolen Valor Act...

Under the act, it is illegal for unauthorized persons to wear, buy, sell, barter, trade, or manufacture “any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces.”

I think or thought it was gonna be reviewed by SCOTUS though as a federal judge ruled it unconstitutional in Denver and then a District judge overturned that ruling... So as of now it is illegal but maybe not because it may be unconstitutional???
/head spinning

It's at the SC right now.
 

Jim675

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Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
1,023
Location
Bellevue, Washington, USA
I can dress as a doctor, but should not perform surgery.
I can dress as a cop (in WA), but not issue a ticket.
I can dress as a judge, lawyer, pilot, Indian Chief, etc.

Dress how you like. Someone wearing a GCM does not in any way harm me.

People will do these things. You can't stop them. An infinite number of malum prohibitum laws simply have ensured that no one can be responsible for knowing them, "ignorance is no excuse" should now be "hmm, I didn't know that either!".
 
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