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Thread: Virginia Tech Held Liable for Delayed Alert During 2007 Massacre

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    Virginia Tech Held Liable for Delayed Alert During 2007 Massacre

    Court awards the victims' families $4 million each.

    http://www.wset.com/story/17158228/v...eaches-verdict

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    Regular Member Marco's Avatar
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    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    From one of the links... the state protects its own, of course... State law limits the actual liability to $100,000 each.

    TFred

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    Founder's Club Member thebigsd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    From one of the links... the state protects its own, of course... State law limits the actual liability to $100,000 each.

    TFred
    That sucks. The important part though is that the state was found guilty. I think that is what the families were really seeking.
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only minutes away."

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    Of course the money means some thing, but this appears to establish a precedent that the university is at least responsible for warning its students of the potential for danger, when an event has occurred. This of course does not address the potential liability they may see for disarming students and then not providing fully for their protection.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    What they ought to be held liable for is creating a victim disarmament zone, with known consequences that unfortunately materialized.

    Virginia Tech banned the citizens natural right to self defence. VT had an obligation to provide for the defence of those kids. Their failure to deliver on that obligation was an epic fail.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Meanwhile, in other news ...

    Colin Goddard proves he will always be delusional:

    Va. Tech victim speaks out about Ga. gun bill
    A survivor of the Virginia Tech campus shooting is speaking out against a controversial bill that would allow some Georgia teens to carry concealed weapons.

    Since Colin Goddard was shot four times in the infamous 2007 shooting, he has been devoted to keeping guns away from students.

    To say that guns is a solution to gun violence is ridiculous, and the fact that we think students should be allowed to shoot it out with themselves is just an absurd idea,” he told Channel 2’s Linda Stouffer.

    Goddard came to the Georgia Capitol on Wednesday to stand with a coalition of people against a state Senate-approved bill that would lower the age to carry a concealed weapon.

    Currently, Georgia residents must be at least 21 to get a concealed weapons permit. There is no training needed. The new proposal would open it up to 18, 19 and 20-year-olds, as long as they go through four hours of classroom instruction, four hours of training on a firing range and pass a test.

    The bill has vocal opponents. Many of them worry that with more young people getting access to guns, the weapons could end up at schools.

    “We should reject any amendment, any legislation and effort that would allow guns on college campuses,” state Sen. Vincent Fort told Stouffer.
    What a fool. Guns already are on campus, carried by cops and evil doers.

    But what really gets me is what Colin said here: "To say that guns is a solution to gun violence is ridiculous."

    But he's OK with cops using guns to "solve"[sic] gun problems. I guess he prefers lawsuits.

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Professional Victim Colin Goddard proves he will always be delusional:
    there, I fixed it for you.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Colin Goddard proves he will always be delusional:

    But what really gets me is what Colin said here: "To say that guns is a solution to gun violence is ridiculous."
    Chin Chin nailed it. Violent response to violence is not an acceptable solution to a person who has determined that their life (and yours) means so little that they'd rather be victimized. If only he'd state it in this way, people would put 2 and 2 together and discover the real reason he and other of his ilk don't want anyone having guns. Truth be told, he's probably be just fine with the concept that the police don't have them either.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    It makes one wonder.

    Out of all the potentially great minds that were destroyed that day, why was this idiot left alive.

    Just as his idiot father did, he will probably reproduce and give the world more idiot children to contend with,

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    How would this sound?

    "To say that a fire extinguisher is a solution to fire violence is absurd."

    Well, that's absurd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    It makes one wonder.

    Out of all the potentially great minds that were destroyed that day, why was this idiot left alive.
    It could be that he remains alive to be a pinnacle example to the world that no matter the hell one has seen, some people will willingly continue to peddle policies that cater to predators and purposefully do nothing to stand against the face of evil. As such he is a willing accomplice to predators and no friend to victims or their families, despite being a victim himself.

    Perhaps people are too charitable to come to that conclusion on their own or state as much though.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 03-14-2012 at 05:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    ...he will probably reproduce and give the world more idiot children to contend with,
    where's darwin when we really need him.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    it could be that he remains alive to be a pinnacle example to the world that no matter the hell one has seen, some people will willingly continue to peddle policies that cater to predators and purposefully do nothing to stand against the face of evil. As such he is a willing accomplice to predators and no friend to victims or their families, despite being a victim himself.

    Perhaps people are too charitable to come to that conclusion on their own or state as much though.
    its all about the money you think he goes through this dog and pony show for free? Ymmv

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    Quote Originally Posted by 67GT390FB View Post
    its all about the money you think he goes through this dog and pony show for free? Ymmv
    Of course I don't think he does it for free, because I know better. However, just because someone is paid to do a job does not mean that they do not hold the view that they are peddling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    What they ought to be held liable for is creating a victim disarmament zone, with known consequences that unfortunately materialized.
    +1

    That, and pauperizing fines all around for Hinker's prior deceptive utterances that students could feel safe. False advertising that killed.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    +1

    That, and pauperizing fines all around for Hinker's prior deceptive utterances that students could feel safe. False advertising that killed.
    +2
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    I would just like to ask the professional victim one question.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    Chin Chin nailed it. Violent response to violence is not an acceptable solution to a person who has determined that their life (and yours) means so little that they'd rather be victimized. If only he'd state it in this way, people would put 2 and 2 together and discover the real reason he and other of his ilk don't want anyone having guns. Truth be told, he's probably be just fine with the concept that the police don't have them either.
    How well did his "verbal interdiction technique" work when he was being shot?

    Seems to me that it sure didn’t work for him any of the 4 times he was shot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    How well did his "verbal interdiction technique" work when he was being shot?

    Seems to me that it sure didn’t work for him any of the 4 times he was shot!
    THIS!

    had an interesting conversation with a family member awhile back.
    she: "why do you feel a need to carry a gun everywhere?"
    me: "trouble can find a person *anywhere*!"
    she: "but this is a safe town. people are reasonable..."
    me: "hypothetical ? for you... if we were sitting together having dinner at <insert name here> restaurant and a violent, armed perp barges in and is threatening people with mayhem, what scenario would you prefer? you, try to 'reason' with the perp not to maim/kill anyone, or, i defend us (and other innocents) as defined by the law of the commonwealth?"
    she: blank stare. no comment. then, after a long delay... "defend us with your gun."

    it's a beautiful thing when the light bulb lights up.
    “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” - John Connor (2005)

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Heard on the radio today...

    "Trapped by Truth!"

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Those that speak in favor of VT disarmament

    By his own choosing, Colin Goddard is the central character in this staged version of Through the Looking Glass - He is Allan in Wonderland that purports to tell us that VT policy on guns is good and right.

    He is living a fairy tale and wants everyone to come join him there. He is the leading man and casting director, looking to audition those that will make themselves available as victims in his theatrical production.

    Problem is that life is no dream state illusion; it is no card game nor grotesque, living chess board battle where it simply ends in the morning when we rise from our dream world slumber. Colin Allownodefense Goddard has not learned to use his positive attributes in a way that adds to the quality of life, rather than diminishes it.

    He is charming, he is articulate - he speaks with a silver tongue, he is a snake oil salesman. His professional credentials are that he very painfully stopped four lead projectiles. That does not make him a hero - he is a victim. It does not qualify him as an expert to instruct others on how they may avert a similar fate.

    Colin Goddard personifies victimization. Worse he wears the Tech tragedy like a merit badge on his sash and elevates himself by standing on the tombstones of his classmates.

    Colin, if you don't want to carry an effective self-defense tool, that's your choice, but do NOT demand that others give up that ability so that they fit into your narrow view of the world. It is sad what Cho took away from you - your intellectual honesty. You have become a Judas sheep - you lead the lambs through that narrow gate.

    The people have spoken through this jury decision - they have delivered a message loudly and clearly. Va Tech and its GFZ backers were negligent - they were wrong.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    By his own choosing, Colin Goddard is the central character in this staged version of Through the Looking Glass - He is Allan in Wonderland that purports to tell us that VT policy on guns is good and right.

    He is living a fairy tale and wants everyone to come join him there. He is the leading man and casting director, looking to audition those that will make themselves available as victims in his theatrical production.

    Problem is that life is no dream state illusion; it is no card game nor grotesque, living chess board battle where it simply ends in the morning when we rise from our dream world slumber. Colin Allownodefense Goddard has not learned to use his positive attributes in a way that adds to the quality of life, rather than diminishes it.

    He is charming, he is articulate - he speaks with a silver tongue, he is a snake oil salesman. His professional credentials are that he very painfully stopped four lead projectiles. That does not make him a hero - he is a victim. It does not qualify him as an expert to instruct others on how they may avert a similar fate.

    Colin Goddard personifies victimization. Worse he wears the Tech tragedy like a merit badge on his sash and elevates himself by standing on the tombstones of his classmates.

    Colin, if you don't want to carry an effective self-defense tool, that's your choice, but do NOT demand that others give up that ability so that they fit into your narrow view of the world. It is sad what Cho took away from you - your intellectual honesty. You have become a Judas sheep - you lead the lambs through that narrow gate.

    The people have spoken through this jury decision - they have delivered a message loudly and clearly. Va Tech and its GFZ backers were negligent - they were wrong.
    I prefer a more simplistic analysis: His pulpit is built on the graves of the dead, his fuel is their spilled blood and his only qualification to speak upon authority is that he cared so little for his own life and those of his classmates to accept personal responsibility for his own safety, and continues to praise those who through their own inaction are now found guilty of not doing enough. Grape is so correct, he should not be made a Hero, but the example to point towards and caution others against.
    The problem with the internet is nobody can really tell when you’re serious and when you’re being sarcastic. –Abraham Lincoln

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    How does this coincide with the other ruling stating that UMW in Fredericksburg VA is not responsible for the disarmed female student who was victimized?
    IIRC the UMW ruling came from the Court of Appeals, while this is "merely" a circuit court jury decision. At best the Montgomery County Circuit Court decision is precedential in that County, but I'm gussing that (as I seem to recall it) it is subject to being overturned if appealed.

    The thing is, I really do not see Tech or the Commonwealth appealing the verdicts, if only to avoid the social outcry that would follow. Take a small (in the grand scheme of budgets) hit and let it drop, while praying that there will be no "next time" when this is dragged up and thrown in their face.

    It's too bad there is nothing like a court ruling to go along with the jury's decision on the award of damages, that lays out all the fine points of law behind the decision. It might be somewhere in the transcript, but the $ cost of obtaining a copy and then the time wading through it to ferret out the legal points and arguments still will not give the reasons the jury used to come to their decision.

    The big question in my mind is this - Now that there is a damage award based on a finding of responsibility, can (and if so, will) a claim of violation of civil rights be initiated? There's not only big money but criminal penalties available should Tech and/or the Commonwealth lose that one. And it would be precedential at a level above the UMW case.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    --snip--
    The big question in my mind is this - Now that there is a damage award based on a finding of responsibility, can (and if so, will) a claim of violation of civil rights be initiated? There's not only big money but criminal penalties available should Tech and/or the Commonwealth lose that one. And it would be precedential at a level above the UMW case.

    stay safe.
    That is a beautiful song your playing - love the melody.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member riverrat10k's Avatar
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    If I read it correctly, Tech was found guilty mostly for a delay in notification after the first shots were fired.

    Nothing about disarming the students and faculty to begin with.

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